In a crowd that size there always be different degrees of protest. You will always find viscous signs from the right or left. And of course the media( left ) is going to brand the protesters as kooks and racist. so of course the ideologues will agree with them. The fact of the matter here is that Obama believes that a hudge federal government can bring relief and prosperity to the American people,but many Americans DO NOT.....they think including me BIG GOVERNMENT will harm us and Fuck things up so badly everyone will suffer,not just those without Health insurance
The latest Rasmusssen poll says 51% have a favorable view of Obama care while 46% oppose it after his speech on wed.
But 38% strongly oppose 28% storongly favor
no, sir...it's not a right or left problem...it's crazy fucker problem...seriously, how many signs implied violence toward bush...? was the nazi thing a bit much..? sure...I'll give you that...but for me, the racial undertones and blatant racist signs are over the top...idiots are bring guns to a healthcare rally...morons are implying the next time the show up they will be armed...
hey, if your seeing these protests as equal...so be it...I don't...
you left wing bias is un fucking real. heres just one....let me know if you want more.
no, sir...it's not a right or left problem...it's crazy fucker problem...seriously, how many signs implied violence toward bush...? was the nazi thing a bit much..? sure...I'll give you that...but for me, the racial undertones and blatant racist signs are over the top...idiots are bring guns to a healthcare rally...morons are implying the next time the show up they will be armed...
hey, if your seeing these protests as equal...so be it...I don't...
you left wing bias is un fucking real. heres just one....let me know if you want more.
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
I believe its YOU who said the people in these protests aren't equal.
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
...
I agree...
What we really need is to drop the ridiculous... imagined divide in America.
If anyone thinks Health Care is just fine... as is... really needs to look into the numbers and see what chaos it will bring if left.. as is.
Most Americans feel the system needs to be reformed... so, let's work together and come up with a solution. If you don't like the current HR3200 bill going around... offer up amanedments to it... change the language in it... lobby for the parts you want... agrue the points you want taken out.
This moronic Red vs. Blue shit really needs to end. It is getting us nowhere... and a divided country never wins.
Bully!!! Division only makes you smaller.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
I believe its YOU who said the people in these protests aren't equal.
um...ok...personally, I don't see the world in black and white, for me the world is gray...I'm not a big fan of absolutes...so you found one photo of some assclown at a anti-war rally...I guess in your book, those advocating violence this past weekend get a free pass because of the smoe in the orange shirt...
I love the "well he did it, why can't I" arguement ...
I contend this...the antiwar folks are not the same as the teabagger folks...the motivations are very different...
um...ok...personally, I don't see the world in black and white, for me the world is gray...I'm not a big fan of absolutes...so you found one photo of some assclown at a anti-war rally...I guess in your book, those advocating violence this past weekend get a free pass because of the smoe in the orange shirt...
I love the "well he did it, why can't I" arguement ...
what the fuck is wrong with you? do you know how to read? did you not see what I said?
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
how am I giving them a free pass?
I really don't see how much clearer I can be. stop putting words in my mouth.
I contend this...the antiwar folks are not the same as the teabagger folks...the motivations are very different...
seems pretty clear that you are giving anti war folks a pass though.
guess what, people who wish the president, no matter who be, dead...or compare them to hitler...ARE THE SAME breed of asshole. sorry you dont think so.
The former US president Jimmy Carter has condemned as "dastardly" and "based on racism" a southern Republican's outburst during Barack Obama's big healthcare speech to Congress last week. Carter said the "You lie" interjection by Joe Wilson showed there was "an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president".
The 84-year-old said the case was part of a disturbing trend directed at Obama that has included equating the president to Nazi leaders. "Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national programme on healthcare. It's deeper than that."
In an interview with NBC News, Carter attributed much of the conservative opposition to Obama to his race. "I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man.
"I live in the south and I've seen the south come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that share the south's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans.
"And that racism inclination still exists. And I think it's bubbled up to the surface because of the belief among many white people, not just in the south but around the country, that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country. It's an abominable circumstance and it grieves me and concerns me very deeply."
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,126
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
...
I agree...
What we really need is to drop the ridiculous... imagined divide in America. If anyone thinks Health Care is just fine... as is... really needs to look into the numbers and see what chaos it will bring if left.. as is.
Most Americans feel the system needs to be reformed... so, let's work together and come up with a solution. If you don't like the current HR3200 bill going around... offer up amanedments to it... change the language in it... lobby for the parts you want... agrue the points you want taken out.
This moronic Red vs. Blue shit really needs to end. It is getting us nowhere... and a divided country never wins.
NOT SO, I watched some of Hannity's America last night and I heard him say on 2 occasions *We have the best health care system in the world* My first thought was you've got to be kidding and they're some who think this to be true too. Wow.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
...
I agree...
What we really need is to drop the ridiculous... imagined divide in America. If anyone thinks Health Care is just fine... as is... really needs to look into the numbers and see what chaos it will bring if left.. as is.
Most Americans feel the system needs to be reformed... so, let's work together and come up with a solution. If you don't like the current HR3200 bill going around... offer up amanedments to it... change the language in it... lobby for the parts you want... agrue the points you want taken out.
This moronic Red vs. Blue shit really needs to end. It is getting us nowhere... and a divided country never wins.
NOT SO, I watched some of Hannity's America last night and I heard him say on 2 occasions *We have the best health care system in the world* My first thought was you've got to be kidding and they're some who think this to be true too. Wow.
peace
we do have the best healthcare in the world. but we dont have the best health care system, because it doesnt exist. ours can and will be improved.
we do have the best healthcare in the world. but we dont have the best health care system, because it doesnt exist. ours can and will be improved.
that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence... your doctors kill more people per year than other industrialised nations... you have the highest infant mortality rate out of most industrialised nations...
you have no idea of the amazing healthcare in countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, etc... some of the healthcare those countries offer, dependent on the illness, is the words best.
please stop lying.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
um...ok...personally, I don't see the world in black and white, for me the world is gray...I'm not a big fan of absolutes...so you found one photo of some assclown at a anti-war rally...I guess in your book, those advocating violence this past weekend get a free pass because of the smoe in the orange shirt...
I love the "well he did it, why can't I" arguement ...
what the fuck is wrong with you? do you know how to read? did you not see what I said?
I didn't watch the OPs link but from other video I've seen, the protesters are an absolutely sick in the head. some of those signs made me want to vomit.
the extreme assholes on the right and left are a disgrace to this country.
how am I giving them a free pass?
I really don't see how much clearer I can be. stop putting words in my mouth.
I contend this...the antiwar folks are not the same as the teabagger folks...the motivations are very different...
seems pretty clear that you are giving anti war folks a pass though.
guess what, people who wish the president, no matter who be, dead...or compare them to hitler...ARE THE SAME breed of asshole. sorry you dont think so.
chill the fuck out, Kanye...
go take a picture, why don't ya...
Let me recap...the folks protesting the war were protesting the pending death and destruction of Irak...while some idiots cheerlead this effort (anyone you know ) others took too the streets...the folks who were hitting the streets in 2002 and 2003 where right...they were correct...I know that hurts, but it's true...
the folks protesting Obama and taxes are idiots...some, well, a lot of these fools are protesting because a half-black man is in office...the others are simply fools who hate "gov't" and they don't want to pay taxes...um, fine then...they should get the hell off my streets and roads...I help pay for those...Some don't want healthcare, fine...go to Somalia...no gov't no problems...
listen, if you think rational behind the anti war protests and the anti Obama protests are the same you can't be helped...
that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence...
you're right, I can't provide you concrete factual evidence. my goggle skills aren't as advanced as yours. but many experts would agree with my opinion. watch the video I posted and Doctors from Canada and Britian will agree that we lead the world. they also list many world leaders who came to the US for care. those same leaders have socialized healthcare in their countries.
you have no idea of the amazing healthcare in countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, etc... some of the healthcare those countries offer, dependent on the illness, is the words best.
please stop lying.
so if you say it, its true. but if I say it, I'm lying? solid case you make. ready...that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence.
you're right, I can't provide you concrete factual evidence. my goggle skills aren't as advanced as yours. but many experts would agree with my opinion. watch the video I posted and Doctors from Canada and Britian will agree that we lead the world. they also list many world leaders who came to the US for care. those same leaders have socialized healthcare in their countries.
not all doctors agree though.
that one video isnt anywhere near as concusive as the findings from the 2 seperate reports i posted.... nowhere near... you might as well quote facts from a Michael Moore movie... but if i did that you'd instantly fucking dismiss them.
many world leaders might visit the US for treatment... i dont care.. many many hillwalkers visit Argentina believing it to have the worlds best walking routes... it doesnt... New Zealand does.
just because people use something doesnt make it the best... just because rappers drink fucking Cristal doesnt mean its the shabizzle... it means the 'think' its the best... just like many many flag wavers also think their healthcare system is the best in the world... and it just aint. not my opinion... published fact.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i gave you the proof.. i named the two reports that have stated that the US infant mortality rate was higher than other industrialised nations :? and yet you give me a news report which shows that Virginias rate has come down? so what? its still an accumulative total... find Michigans infant death mortality rate and post that...
cancer death rates next:-
# 1 Netherlands: 433 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 2 Italy: 418 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 3 Hungary: 411 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 4 Luxembourg: 409.7 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 5 Slovakia: 405.3 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 6 Ireland: 357.6 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 7 Czech Republic: 335.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 8 New Zealand: 327.3 deaths per 100,000 peopl # 9 United States: 321.9 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 10 Australia: 298.9 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 11 Norway: 289.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 12 France: 286.1 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 13 Austria: 280 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 14 Sweden: 268.2 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 15 Finland: 255.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl # 16 United Kingdom: 253.5 deaths per 100,000 peopl
hmmmmm... not the best at that one either... bare with me and i'll find one that you can all make into a bumper sticker.. woo-hoo US is the number 1 at.... oh lets say ... leprosy recovery rates!!!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i gave you the proof.. i named the two reports that have stated that the US infant mortality rate was higher than other industrialised nations :? and yet you give me a news report which shows that Virginias rate has come down? so what? its still an accumulative total... find Michigans infant death mortality rate and post that...
cancer death rates next:-
# 1 Netherlands: 433 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 2 Italy: 418 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 3 Hungary: 411 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 4 Luxembourg: 409.7 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 5 Slovakia: 405.3 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 6 Ireland: 357.6 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 7 Czech Republic: 335.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 8 New Zealand: 327.3 deaths per 100,000 peopl # 9 United States: 321.9 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 10 Australia: 298.9 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 11 Norway: 289.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 12 France: 286.1 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 13 Austria: 280 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 14 Sweden: 268.2 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 15 Finland: 255.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl # 16 United Kingdom: 253.5 deaths per 100,000 peopl
hmmmmm... not the best at that one either... bare with me and i'll find one that you can all make into a bumper sticker.. woo-hoo US is the number 1 at.... oh lets say ... leprosy recovery rates!!!
the reports you stated are a decade old. regardless, I'm saying INNOVATION and RESEARCH, America leads the world.. as for "quality of care" hmm ok, well thats a difficult thing to measure. there are many factors that come into play..different diseases, age groups, etc, etc. I digress.
I really hope you watch the video. but I highly doubt you will
Hospital beds.... look at all those European countries before you... still, best healthcare system in the world..
# 1 Switzerland: 18.3 per 1,000 people
# 2 Japan: 16.4 per 1,000 people
# 3 Norway: 14.4 per 1,000 people
# 4 Netherlands: 11.1 per 1,000 people
# 5 Ireland: 9.7 per 1,000 people
# 6 Germany: 9.2 per 1,000 people
# 7 Austria: 8.8 per 1,000 people
# 8 Czech Republic: 8.7 per 1,000 people
# 9 France: 8.4 per 1,000 people
# 10 Hungary: 8.3 per 1,000 people
# 11 Slovakia: 8.1 per 1,000 people
# 12 Luxembourg: 8 per 1,000 people
# 13 Australia: 7.9 per 1,000 people
# 14 Finland: 7.6 per 1,000 people
# 15 Belgium: 7.3 per 1,000 people
# 16 New Zealand: 6.2 per 1,000 people
# 17 Korea, South: 5.5 per 1,000 people
# 18 Poland: 5.1 per 1,000 people
= 19 Italy: 4.9 per 1,000 people
= 19 Greece: 4.9 per 1,000 people
# 21 Denmark: 4.5 per 1,000 people
= 22 United Kingdom: 4.1 per 1,000 people
= 22 Spain: 4.1 per 1,000 people
# 24 Portugal: 4 per 1,000 people
# 25 Canada: 3.9 per 1,000 people
# 26 Sweden: 3.7 per 1,000 people
# 27 United States: 3.6 per 1,000 people
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Hospital beds.... look at all those European countries before you... still, best healthcare system in the world..
I never said we had the best "system". when you learn how to read, come back. k? o and watch the video. you will learn something new about your wonderful socialized healthcare.
the reports you stated are a decade old. regardless, I'm saying INNOVATION and RESEARCH, America leads the world.. as for "quality of care" hmm ok, well thats a difficult thing to measure. there are many factors that come into play..different diseases, age groups, etc, etc. I digress.
I really hope you watch the video. but I highly doubt you will
reports are not a decade old!... one report was from 2008... and one report was from 2000.. there have not been huge advances in your medical healthcare system during the Bush years since 2000.. in fact wasnt the monetary budget for healthcare cut to provide more money for bombs n shit?
and you keep wanting proof of the infant mortality rates and what not?
Health care in the United States is provided by many separate legal entities. More is spent on health care in the United States on a per capita basis than in any other nation in the world.[1][2] Medical debt is the principal cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States,[3] weakening the whole economy. Some have argued that the system does not deliver value for the money spent.
According to data compiled and published by multiple pharmaceutical trade groups, the US is the world leader in biomedical research and development as well as the introduction of new biomedical products; pharmaceutical trade organizations also maintain that the high cost of health care in the U.S. has encouraged substantial reinvestment in such research and development.[4][5][6] Despite that, the US pays twice as much yet lags other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy, which are among the most widely collected, hence useful, international comparative statistics. For 2006-2010, the USA's life expectancy will lag 38th in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[7]
Active debate over health care reform in the United States concerns questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency, cost, and quality. The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[8][9] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[10] The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.[nb 1][11] According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of insurance).[12][13] The same Institute of Medicine report notes that "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States." [12] Estimates of the total number of people in the United States who die because of lack of medical care range upwards of nearly 100,000 per year.[14]
so if 18,000 unecassary deaths are caused each year, please explain why the US has the "worlds best healthcare™"
you saying the US has the best quality of care is perhaps true if your are on the 50% of people who possibly have insurance... and of that 50% you are one of the 10% who earn enough to ensure that you receive the very best of care for say... cancer. Your level of care is solely dependent on your state of affluence... and therefore America does NOT have the worlds best healthcare as a man earning $10k a year will be fucked, whereas his fellow man in Norway will receive excellent care regardless of his bank balance.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
reports are not a decade old!... one report was from 2008... and one report was from 2000.. there have not been huge advances in your medical healthcare system during the Bush years since 2000.. in fact wasnt the monetary budget for healthcare cut to provide more money for bombs n shit?
no, we borrowed money to pay for the war. and innovation and research comes mostly from the private sector. the monetary budget of the US means nothing.
and 9 years is pretty close to a decade. but you know that right?
so if 18,000 unecassary deaths are caused each year, please explain why the US has the "worlds best healthcare™"
you saying the US has the best quality of care is perhaps true if your are on the 50% of people who possibly have insurance... and of that 50% you are one of the 10% who earn enough to ensure that you receive the very best of care for say... cancer. Your level of care is solely dependent on your state of affluence... and therefore America does NOT have the worlds best healthcare as a man earning $10k a year will be fucked, whereas his fellow man in Norway will receive excellent care regardless of his bank balance.
again, you are talking about the SYSTEM. which I never said was best. if you can afford it, you will receive that best care in the world, in America. which is why many world leaders come here for care instead of their own socialized system.
and 9 years is pretty close to a decade. but you know that right?
yep... just as you know you said "those reportS are almost a decade old" when only one of them is and the other is 2008, which was only last year... but you know that right?
again, you are talking about the SYSTEM. which I never said was best. if you can afford it, you will receive that best care in the world. which is why many world leaders come here for care instead of their own socialized system.
you've never said that... but Americans think that... the post earlier in this thread from G_under_P was from some newscaster who said you had the best healthcare system in the world...
i still disagree with your point about world leaders and the money though.... its truly dependent on the illness... some are better treated in the US, some are in Sitzerland (blood defects springs to mind), some in Norway, some in Germany, Japan, etc.... if those leaders went to the US for certain things then i'm sure i can find instances of where a world leader has come to Britain for a certain op, or Germany, or France... big wowsers....
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
you've never said that... but Americans think that... the post earlier in this thread from G_under_P was from some newscaster who said you had the best healthcare system in the world...
I dont give a flying fuck what some newscaster said. I'm talking about what I said. and I never said our "system" was the best. I said our quality of care is...IF you can afford it.
and the money though.... its truly dependent on the illness... some are better treated in the US, some are in Sitzerland (blood defects springs to mind), some in Norway, some in Germany, Japan, etc.... if those leaders went to the US for certain things then i'm sure i can find instances of where a world leader has come to Britain for a certain op, or Germany, or France... big wowsers....
this is a good point and I agree. I'm sure many countries have specialized advanced care options for specific conditions. but that more then likely would also be found in the US as well.
that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence...
you're right, I can't provide you concrete factual evidence. my goggle skills aren't as advanced as yours. but many experts would agree with my opinion. watch the video I posted and Doctors from Canada and Britian will agree that we lead the world. they also list many world leaders who came to the US for care. those same leaders have socialized healthcare in their countries.
you have no idea of the amazing healthcare in countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, etc... some of the healthcare those countries offer, dependent on the illness, is the words best.
please stop lying.
so if you say it, its true. but if I say it, I'm lying? solid case you make. ready...that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence.
jlew...some people have simply watched too many michael moore documentaries.
jlew...some people have simply watched too many michael moore documentaries.
to each their own. I don't agree with MM but I'm happy he has a voice. in places like China he would be imprisoned for decent. I'll take freedom for him to be an idiot anyday.
jlew...some people have simply watched too many michael moore documentaries.
to each their own. I don't agree with MM but I'm happy he has a voice. in places like China he would be imprisoned for decent. I'll take freedom for him to be an idiot anyday.
very well said.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,126
guess what, people who wish the president, no matter who be, dead...or compare them to hitler...ARE THE SAME breed of asshole. sorry you dont think so.
I missed this somehow, I went to many anti-war protest marches along with many others in DC and I can't recall many if any want the then President GWB DEAD. That really wouldn't have solved the problem cause the Vice President was the same or worse in trying to end the wars. Now many hated him, not me I disliked him emensely hate is just too strong a word even for a man like George Bush.
If a protest march was scheduled for this Saturday to end the war in Afghanistan I'd be there in a heartbeat. Once this health care bill is signed I'm sure one will be made.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
NOT SO, I watched some of Hannity's America last night and I heard him say on 2 occasions *We have the best health care system in the world* My first thought was you've got to be kidding and they're some who think this to be true too. Wow.
peace
...
Actually... I believe the Hannity quote is, "America is the greatest nation ever bestowed on the Earth by God"... or something to that effect.
I'll look you the entire phrase...
...
"America is the single greatest nation that God ever gave man on this earth."
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
you've never said that... but Americans think that... the post earlier in this thread from G_under_P was from some newscaster who said you had the best healthcare system in the world...
I dont give a flying fuck what some newscaster said. I'm talking about what I said. and I never said our "system" was the best. I said our quality of care is...IF you can afford it.
the newscaster idiot is symptomatic of the general pompousness of Americans when it comes to being The Best™ at everything in the world....
and your quality of care point is very possibly true... but half of your population CANNOT afford it... 150million people do not get that QUALITY of care that you are espousing to be the best in the world...
how do you quantify 'quality of care'? for me it isnt that 3 rich billionaires get a foot massage whilst they recover from a gall bladder operation... its about the general quality of care for the populace of an entire nation... and in this instance your country comes last.
heres a sick experiment.
i.e. take 100 people in the US who earn less than $15000 per year and give them a variety of health problems, ranging from Cancer right down to Asthma, Pneumonia, etc....
and then take 100 people from any modern European country who earn less than the $15000 per year as well... give them the same diseases...
the result will be that all 100 of those people in the Eiro country will be seen, treated, perhaps cured, perhaps not... but they will be seen regardless of their wealth.
The 100 US people might not even get seen... if they do they will not receive the best QUALITY OF CARE... as they simply cannot afford it.
and for that simple reason.. the US doesnt not offer the best quality of care in the world.. far from it.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
The latest Rasmusssen poll says 51% have a favorable view of Obama care while 46% oppose it after his speech on wed.
But 38% strongly oppose 28% storongly favor
you left wing bias is un fucking real. heres just one....let me know if you want more.
http://www.zombietime.com/us_out_of_ira ... G_2416.JPG
that guy is a assclown...see we can agree...
help me out, are you for or against crazy protesters who advocate violence....
from what I'm getting is that you think the idiots in DC this past weekend are ok your book...
:roll:
I believe its YOU who said the people in these protests aren't equal.
um...ok...personally, I don't see the world in black and white, for me the world is gray...I'm not a big fan of absolutes...so you found one photo of some assclown at a anti-war rally...I guess in your book, those advocating violence this past weekend get a free pass because of the smoe in the orange shirt...
I love the "well he did it, why can't I" arguement ...
I contend this...the antiwar folks are not the same as the teabagger folks...the motivations are very different...
what the fuck is wrong with you? do you know how to read? did you not see what I said?
how am I giving them a free pass?
I really don't see how much clearer I can be. stop putting words in my mouth.
seems pretty clear that you are giving anti war folks a pass though.
guess what, people who wish the president, no matter who be, dead...or compare them to hitler...ARE THE SAME breed of asshole. sorry you dont think so.
having another moment?
Are you aware that you can edit the title of your thread? It should say "Is this a racial protest?' Just thought I'd point that out
The former US president Jimmy Carter has condemned as "dastardly" and "based on racism" a southern Republican's outburst during Barack Obama's big healthcare speech to Congress last week. Carter said the "You lie" interjection by Joe Wilson showed there was "an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president".
The 84-year-old said the case was part of a disturbing trend directed at Obama that has included equating the president to Nazi leaders. "Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national programme on healthcare. It's deeper than that."
In an interview with NBC News, Carter attributed much of the conservative opposition to Obama to his race. "I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man.
"I live in the south and I've seen the south come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that share the south's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans.
"And that racism inclination still exists. And I think it's bubbled up to the surface because of the belief among many white people, not just in the south but around the country, that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country. It's an abominable circumstance and it grieves me and concerns me very deeply."
NOT SO, I watched some of Hannity's America last night and I heard him say on 2 occasions *We have the best health care system in the world* My first thought was you've got to be kidding and they're some who think this to be true too. Wow.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
we do have the best healthcare in the world. but we dont have the best health care system, because it doesnt exist. ours can and will be improved.
that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence... your doctors kill more people per year than other industrialised nations... you have the highest infant mortality rate out of most industrialised nations...
you have no idea of the amazing healthcare in countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, etc... some of the healthcare those countries offer, dependent on the illness, is the words best.
please stop lying.
chill the fuck out, Kanye...
go take a picture, why don't ya...
Let me recap...the folks protesting the war were protesting the pending death and destruction of Irak...while some idiots cheerlead this effort (anyone you know
the folks protesting Obama and taxes are idiots...some, well, a lot of these fools are protesting because a half-black man is in office...the others are simply fools who hate "gov't" and they don't want to pay taxes...um, fine then...they should get the hell off my streets and roads...I help pay for those...Some don't want healthcare, fine...go to Somalia...no gov't no problems...
listen, if you think rational behind the anti war protests and the anti Obama protests are the same you can't be helped...
you're right, I can't provide you concrete factual evidence. my goggle skills aren't as advanced as yours. but many experts would agree with my opinion. watch the video I posted and Doctors from Canada and Britian will agree that we lead the world. they also list many world leaders who came to the US for care. those same leaders have socialized healthcare in their countries.
yea, you keep saying this but where is the proof? and what is the ratio compared to other nations?
proof? my google skills found that certain states, infant mortality rates are at all time lows.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01672.html
so if you say it, its true. but if I say it, I'm lying? solid case you make. ready...that is an opinion that you simply cannot back up with any concrete factual evidence.
not all doctors agree though.
that one video isnt anywhere near as concusive as the findings from the 2 seperate reports i posted.... nowhere near... you might as well quote facts from a Michael Moore movie... but if i did that you'd instantly fucking dismiss them.
many world leaders might visit the US for treatment... i dont care.. many many hillwalkers visit Argentina believing it to have the worlds best walking routes... it doesnt... New Zealand does.
just because people use something doesnt make it the best... just because rappers drink fucking Cristal doesnt mean its the shabizzle... it means the 'think' its the best... just like many many flag wavers also think their healthcare system is the best in the world... and it just aint. not my opinion... published fact.
i gave you the proof.. i named the two reports that have stated that the US infant mortality rate was higher than other industrialised nations :? and yet you give me a news report which shows that Virginias rate has come down? so what? its still an accumulative total... find Michigans infant death mortality rate and post that...
cancer death rates next:-
# 1 Netherlands: 433 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 2 Italy: 418 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 3 Hungary: 411 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 4 Luxembourg: 409.7 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 5 Slovakia: 405.3 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 6 Ireland: 357.6 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 7 Czech Republic: 335.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 8 New Zealand: 327.3 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 9 United States: 321.9 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 10 Australia: 298.9 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 11 Norway: 289.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 12 France: 286.1 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 13 Austria: 280 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 14 Sweden: 268.2 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 15 Finland: 255.4 deaths per 100,000 peopl
# 16 United Kingdom: 253.5 deaths per 100,000 peopl
hmmmmm... not the best at that one either... bare with me and i'll find one that you can all make into a bumper sticker.. woo-hoo US is the number 1 at.... oh lets say ... leprosy recovery rates!!!
the reports you stated are a decade old. regardless, I'm saying INNOVATION and RESEARCH, America leads the world.. as for "quality of care" hmm ok, well thats a difficult thing to measure. there are many factors that come into play..different diseases, age groups, etc, etc. I digress.
I really hope you watch the video. but I highly doubt you will
# 1 Switzerland: 18.3 per 1,000 people
# 2 Japan: 16.4 per 1,000 people
# 3 Norway: 14.4 per 1,000 people
# 4 Netherlands: 11.1 per 1,000 people
# 5 Ireland: 9.7 per 1,000 people
# 6 Germany: 9.2 per 1,000 people
# 7 Austria: 8.8 per 1,000 people
# 8 Czech Republic: 8.7 per 1,000 people
# 9 France: 8.4 per 1,000 people
# 10 Hungary: 8.3 per 1,000 people
# 11 Slovakia: 8.1 per 1,000 people
# 12 Luxembourg: 8 per 1,000 people
# 13 Australia: 7.9 per 1,000 people
# 14 Finland: 7.6 per 1,000 people
# 15 Belgium: 7.3 per 1,000 people
# 16 New Zealand: 6.2 per 1,000 people
# 17 Korea, South: 5.5 per 1,000 people
# 18 Poland: 5.1 per 1,000 people
= 19 Italy: 4.9 per 1,000 people
= 19 Greece: 4.9 per 1,000 people
# 21 Denmark: 4.5 per 1,000 people
= 22 United Kingdom: 4.1 per 1,000 people
= 22 Spain: 4.1 per 1,000 people
# 24 Portugal: 4 per 1,000 people
# 25 Canada: 3.9 per 1,000 people
# 26 Sweden: 3.7 per 1,000 people
# 27 United States: 3.6 per 1,000 people
I never said we had the best "system". when you learn how to read, come back. k? o and watch the video. you will learn something new about your wonderful socialized healthcare.
reports are not a decade old!... one report was from 2008... and one report was from 2000.. there have not been huge advances in your medical healthcare system during the Bush years since 2000.. in fact wasnt the monetary budget for healthcare cut to provide more money for bombs n shit?
and you keep wanting proof of the infant mortality rates and what not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... ted_States
Health care in the United States is provided by many separate legal entities. More is spent on health care in the United States on a per capita basis than in any other nation in the world.[1][2] Medical debt is the principal cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States,[3] weakening the whole economy. Some have argued that the system does not deliver value for the money spent.
According to data compiled and published by multiple pharmaceutical trade groups, the US is the world leader in biomedical research and development as well as the introduction of new biomedical products; pharmaceutical trade organizations also maintain that the high cost of health care in the U.S. has encouraged substantial reinvestment in such research and development.[4][5][6] Despite that, the US pays twice as much yet lags other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy, which are among the most widely collected, hence useful, international comparative statistics. For 2006-2010, the USA's life expectancy will lag 38th in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[7]
Active debate over health care reform in the United States concerns questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency, cost, and quality. The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[8][9] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[10] The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.[nb 1][11] According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of insurance).[12][13] The same Institute of Medicine report notes that "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States." [12] Estimates of the total number of people in the United States who die because of lack of medical care range upwards of nearly 100,000 per year.[14]
so if 18,000 unecassary deaths are caused each year, please explain why the US has the "worlds best healthcare™"
you saying the US has the best quality of care is perhaps true if your are on the 50% of people who possibly have insurance... and of that 50% you are one of the 10% who earn enough to ensure that you receive the very best of care for say... cancer. Your level of care is solely dependent on your state of affluence... and therefore America does NOT have the worlds best healthcare as a man earning $10k a year will be fucked, whereas his fellow man in Norway will receive excellent care regardless of his bank balance.
no, we borrowed money to pay for the war. and innovation and research comes mostly from the private sector. the monetary budget of the US means nothing.
and 9 years is pretty close to a decade. but you know that right?
again, you are talking about the SYSTEM. which I never said was best. if you can afford it, you will receive that best care in the world, in America. which is why many world leaders come here for care instead of their own socialized system.
yep... just as you know you said "those reportS are almost a decade old" when only one of them is and the other is 2008, which was only last year... but you know that right?
you've never said that... but Americans think that... the post earlier in this thread from G_under_P was from some newscaster who said you had the best healthcare system in the world...
i still disagree with your point about world leaders and the money though.... its truly dependent on the illness... some are better treated in the US, some are in Sitzerland (blood defects springs to mind), some in Norway, some in Germany, Japan, etc.... if those leaders went to the US for certain things then i'm sure i can find instances of where a world leader has come to Britain for a certain op, or Germany, or France... big wowsers....
I dont give a flying fuck what some newscaster said. I'm talking about what I said. and I never said our "system" was the best. I said our quality of care is...IF you can afford it.
the video gives examples, Italy's prime minister being one of them
this is a good point and I agree. I'm sure many countries have specialized advanced care options for specific conditions. but that more then likely would also be found in the US as well.
jlew...some people have simply watched too many michael moore documentaries.
to each their own. I don't agree with MM but I'm happy he has a voice. in places like China he would be imprisoned for decent. I'll take freedom for him to be an idiot anyday.
very well said.
I missed this somehow, I went to many anti-war protest marches along with many others in DC and I can't recall many if any want the then President GWB DEAD. That really wouldn't have solved the problem cause the Vice President was the same or worse in trying to end the wars. Now many hated him, not me I disliked him emensely hate is just too strong a word even for a man like George Bush.
If a protest march was scheduled for this Saturday to end the war in Afghanistan I'd be there in a heartbeat. Once this health care bill is signed I'm sure one will be made.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Actually... I believe the Hannity quote is, "America is the greatest nation ever bestowed on the Earth by God"... or something to that effect.
I'll look you the entire phrase...
...
"America is the single greatest nation that God ever gave man on this earth."
Hail, Hail!!!
the newscaster idiot is symptomatic of the general pompousness of Americans when it comes to being The Best™ at everything in the world....
and your quality of care point is very possibly true... but half of your population CANNOT afford it... 150million people do not get that QUALITY of care that you are espousing to be the best in the world...
how do you quantify 'quality of care'? for me it isnt that 3 rich billionaires get a foot massage whilst they recover from a gall bladder operation... its about the general quality of care for the populace of an entire nation... and in this instance your country comes last.
heres a sick experiment.
i.e. take 100 people in the US who earn less than $15000 per year and give them a variety of health problems, ranging from Cancer right down to Asthma, Pneumonia, etc....
and then take 100 people from any modern European country who earn less than the $15000 per year as well... give them the same diseases...
the result will be that all 100 of those people in the Eiro country will be seen, treated, perhaps cured, perhaps not... but they will be seen regardless of their wealth.
The 100 US people might not even get seen... if they do they will not receive the best QUALITY OF CARE... as they simply cannot afford it.
and for that simple reason.. the US doesnt not offer the best quality of care in the world.. far from it.