part of the reason health care costs so much

polaris_x

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i think poll show over 70% of the population is in favor of UHC

well ... if 70% truly want it and what it entails - it's workable ...

i guess that still leaves how you handle the various industries that are profiting from health care now ...

decides2dream

polaris_x wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

and i understood yours. the real point is, neither you or i know, definitively what the majority wants.....and it could well be UHC. or not. also, many throw around 'labels' to combat an idea they're against, remember how everyone was a communist back in the 50s? or hell, even at the start of the iraq war, many were accusd of being against america and unpatriotic b/c they spoke out against dubya and the government? so yea...people can label away, doesn't make it fit......and 'socialist' idea or not, as i already said, we as a country already have in place many, many socialist programs. so we shall see just what america wants. one thing is for sure, whether UHC or some form....many, many people are quite unhappy with the status quo of our current healthcare industry and desire change. how much change? remains to be seen. altho even there, i personally imagine our actual citizens are open to a lot more ideas than our healthcare, for profit industry is....and that is the bigget obstacle. still, doesn't mean it can't be done.

how is public education working?

point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i think poll show over 70% of the population is in favor of UHC

i've heard/read similar stats....but i am not great with linking sources, so i just figured...it's a-ok to even say, none of us *know* what everyone wants......but IF it is what the people want, we should work towards it, and yea....it will be difficult, but anything is doable if desired and worked towards.


and this:

polaris_x wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

i think poll show over 70% of the population is in favor of UHC

well ... if 70% truly want it and what it entails - it's workable ...

i guess that still leaves how you handle the various industries that are profiting from health care now ...

sadly, is probably the biggest obstacle. far too many have been profiting far too long and too much on our healthcare. it should not even be a *worry*...but you bet, it is. that is probbly my biggest 'worry' about it all. instead of really going after what we want, working towards what we want...we may end up with half-assed ideas implemented simply to kow-tow to the big healthcare corps. it shouldn't be that way, at all. we shall see what gets hammered out, i want to remain hopeful......

polaris_x

decides2dream wrote:

point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.

point being that public education is a so called "socialist" program ... a program that i think is failing in many regards with reasons alluding to my point about healthcare ...

decides2dream

polaris_x wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.

point being that public education is a so called "socialist" program ... a program that i think is failing in many regards with reasons alluding to my point about healthcare ...

again, believe me....i 'got' that....it was not a subtle point.
however, as i said...it's really apples and oranges. different program. and yea, as much as people bitch about public education, i also don't imagine mny wanting to see it disappear either. that said, i don't want to debate public education. this is about healthcare. and sure, while related to a degree, public/social programs and all.......we already have public education, but we don't have full, lifetime public healthcare for all.

personally, i will take public education and all it's failings.....than no public education. i also would happily take UHC for all, for life....over our current, for profit healthcare industry that leaves out many, doesn't fully serve even those who do pay in, etc. however, i definitely respect there are differences of opinion on such preferences...;)

SundaySilence

jlew24asu wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

well ... you still have to convince half the population that a socialist idea is a good thing ... probably the bigger of the two challenges ...

but socialism is not a good thing. and can be proven.

In what context are you referring to socialism as a proven not good thing?

jlew24asu

SundaySilence wrote:

In what context are you referring to socialism as a proven not good thing?

any country that has been communist. I'm all for government stepping in to help those less fortunate, or children, or elderly. but what I don't want is the government to have 100% control of the healthcare system

polaris_x

SundaySilence wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

well ... you still have to convince half the population that a socialist idea is a good thing ... probably the bigger of the two challenges ...

but socialism is not a good thing. and can be proven.

In what context are you referring to socialism as a proven not good thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

if you look at the top of the list - you could say that the HDI favours socialist countries ...

jlew24asu

America can not afford UHC. we simply do not have enough money to fund it. there is always room for improvement but UHC is not it. at least at this point in time.

inmytree

America can do anything. We have plenty of money. UHC is doable and can happen...

Indifference

inmytree wrote:

We have plenty of money. ...

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

inmytree

Indifference wrote:

inmytree wrote:

We have plenty of money. ...

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

and...?

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

America can do anything. We have plenty of money. UHC is doable and can happen...

if we have plenty of money, why do you have such a high deficit?

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

Indifference wrote:

inmytree wrote:

We have plenty of money. ...

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

and...?

what do you mean and? this shows you we do NOT have plenty of money.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

America can do anything. We have plenty of money. UHC is doable and can happen...

if we have plenty of money, why do you have such a high deficit?

you tell me...

personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....

and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

you tell me...

personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....

you seem to not understand what a deficit is. but yes, these are 2 of many reasons for them.

inmytree wrote:

and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....

there are plenty of reasons. one being, we dont have enough money. we are running a huge deficit. not to mention UHC would cost trillions of dollars. we aren't exactly talking about tacking on some little thing to the budget. Healthcare is by far and away the most expensive program.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

you tell me...

personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....

you seem to not understand what a deficit is. but yes, these are 2 of many reasons for them.

inmytree wrote:

and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....

there are plenty of reasons. one being, we dont have enough money. we are running a huge deficit. not to mention UHC would cost trillions of dollars. we aren't exactly talking about tacking on some little thing to the budget. Healthcare is by far and away the most expensive program.

1) I gave 3 reasons...

2) since I don't understand, please share your knowledge

3) if other countries can do it, why can't the good ol' God Bless America US of A provide UHC...?

Gern Blansten

of course we can do it

we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets

we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes

inmytree

Gern Blansten wrote:

of course we can do it

we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets

we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes

makes sense to me... :!:

decides2dream

Gern Blansten wrote:

of course we can do it

we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets

we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes

and there it is!
seriously...it's not a diffuclt concept to grasp, and yet...this is denied as 'impossible.'
it's been said in myriad different ways, but that is what it comes down to, really.

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

of course we can do it

we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets

we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes

so basically force everyone to pay into a system that may or may not work for them. I currently pay about $70 a month and my employer picks up around $300. but not all companies do that.

at my first job, a small business with about 20 employees, they didnt offer health care coverage. I paid my own for about $150 a month with a high deductible. it was basically for emergencies only. under UHC, you would force companies like this to pay? how much? enough to the point that some of those 20 employees would surely be let go.

not to mention you want to completely eliminate the insurance industry. in theory, maybe not so bad. but you would be eliminating millions of jobs.