and i understood yours. the real point is, neither you or i know, definitively what the majority wants.....and it could well be UHC. or not. also, many throw around 'labels' to combat an idea they're against, remember how everyone was a communist back in the 50s? or hell, even at the start of the iraq war, many were accusd of being against america and unpatriotic b/c they spoke out against dubya and the government? so yea...people can label away, doesn't make it fit......and 'socialist' idea or not, as i already said, we as a country already have in place many, many socialist programs. so we shall see just what america wants. one thing is for sure, whether UHC or some form....many, many people are quite unhappy with the status quo of our current healthcare industry and desire change. how much change? remains to be seen. altho even there, i personally imagine our actual citizens are open to a lot more ideas than our healthcare, for profit industry is....and that is the bigget obstacle. still, doesn't mean it can't be done.
how is public education working?
point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.
i think poll show over 70% of the population is in favor of UHC
i've heard/read similar stats....but i am not great with linking sources, so i just figured...it's a-ok to even say, none of us *know* what everyone wants......but IF it is what the people want, we should work towards it, and yea....it will be difficult, but anything is doable if desired and worked towards.
i think poll show over 70% of the population is in favor of UHC
well ... if 70% truly want it and what it entails - it's workable ...
i guess that still leaves how you handle the various industries that are profiting from health care now ...
sadly, is probably the biggest obstacle. far too many have been profiting far too long and too much on our healthcare. it should not even be a *worry*...but you bet, it is. that is probbly my biggest 'worry' about it all. instead of really going after what we want, working towards what we want...we may end up with half-assed ideas implemented simply to kow-tow to the big healthcare corps. it shouldn't be that way, at all. we shall see what gets hammered out, i want to remain hopeful......
point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.
point being that public education is a so called "socialist" program ... a program that i think is failing in many regards with reasons alluding to my point about healthcare ...
point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.
point being that public education is a so called "socialist" program ... a program that i think is failing in many regards with reasons alluding to my point about healthcare ...
again, believe me....i 'got' that....it was not a subtle point.
however, as i said...it's really apples and oranges. different program. and yea, as much as people bitch about public education, i also don't imagine mny wanting to see it disappear either. that said, i don't want to debate public education. this is about healthcare. and sure, while related to a degree, public/social programs and all.......we already have public education, but we don't have full, lifetime public healthcare for all.
personally, i will take public education and all it's failings.....than no public education. i also would happily take UHC for all, for life....over our current, for profit healthcare industry that leaves out many, doesn't fully serve even those who do pay in, etc. however, i definitely respect there are differences of opinion on such preferences...;)
In what context are you referring to socialism as a proven not good thing?
any country that has been communist. I'm all for government stepping in to help those less fortunate, or children, or elderly. but what I don't want is the government to have 100% control of the healthcare system
America can not afford UHC. we simply do not have enough money to fund it. there is always room for improvement but UHC is not it. at least at this point in time.
America can do anything. We have plenty of money. UHC is doable and can happen...
if we have plenty of money, why do you have such a high deficit?
you tell me...
personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....
and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....
personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....
you seem to not understand what a deficit is. but yes, these are 2 of many reasons for them.
and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....
there are plenty of reasons. one being, we dont have enough money. we are running a huge deficit. not to mention UHC would cost trillions of dollars. we aren't exactly talking about tacking on some little thing to the budget. Healthcare is by far and away the most expensive program.
personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....
you seem to not understand what a deficit is. but yes, these are 2 of many reasons for them.
and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....
there are plenty of reasons. one being, we dont have enough money. we are running a huge deficit. not to mention UHC would cost trillions of dollars. we aren't exactly talking about tacking on some little thing to the budget. Healthcare is by far and away the most expensive program.
1) I gave 3 reasons...
2) since I don't understand, please share your knowledge
3) if other countries can do it, why can't the good ol' God Bless America US of A provide UHC...?
we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets
we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets
we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes
we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets
we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes
and there it is!
seriously...it's not a diffuclt concept to grasp, and yet...this is denied as 'impossible.'
it's been said in myriad different ways, but that is what it comes down to, really.
we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets
we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes
so basically force everyone to pay into a system that may or may not work for them. I currently pay about $70 a month and my employer picks up around $300. but not all companies do that.
at my first job, a small business with about 20 employees, they didnt offer health care coverage. I paid my own for about $150 a month with a high deductible. it was basically for emergencies only. under UHC, you would force companies like this to pay? how much? enough to the point that some of those 20 employees would surely be let go.
not to mention you want to completely eliminate the insurance industry. in theory, maybe not so bad. but you would be eliminating millions of jobs.
and there it is!
seriously...it's not a diffuclt concept to grasp, and yet...this is denied as 'impossible.'
it's been said in myriad different ways, but that is what it comes down to, really.
yea piece of cake :roll: we are talking about millions of jobs and trillions of dollars. yea, its so easy
and lets say this miraculously "easy" shift takes place. the government has a proven track record of sucking bad at social programs. the cost will just go higher and higher and will be either be taxed more or print more money to pay for it.
and lets say this miraculously "easy" shift takes place. the government has a proven track record of sucking bad at social programs. the cost will just go higher and higher and will be either be taxed more or print more money to pay for it.
when all else fails, pull the "gov't can't do anything right" card...
I had a healthcare discussion with my brother, a city firefighter and his brother-in-law, a police officer....both were saying private industry is better and the gov't can't run anything...I said "fine, let's privatize fire and police departments, you know, since private industry can do a much better job..."
interestingly, the conversation ended at that point...
and lets say this miraculously "easy" shift takes place. the government has a proven track record of sucking bad at social programs. the cost will just go higher and higher and will be either be taxed more or print more money to pay for it.
when all else fails, pull the "gov't can't do anything right" card...
I had a healthcare discussion with my brother, a city firefighter and his brother-in-law, a police officer....both were saying private industry is better and the gov't can't run anything...I said "fine, let's privatize fire and police departments, you know, since private industry can do a much better job..."
interestingly, the conversation ended at that point...
not surprised you ignored where I said sucking at "social programs". there are many things the government IS good at. fire/police/military being one of them.
we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets
we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes
so basically force everyone to pay into a system that may or may not work for them. I currently pay about $70 a month and my employer picks up around $300. but not all companies do that.
at my first job, a small business with about 20 employees, they didnt offer health care coverage. I paid my own for about $150 a month with a high deductible. it was basically for emergencies only. under UHC, you would force companies like this to pay? how much? enough to the point that some of those 20 employees would surely be let go.
not to mention you want to completely eliminate the insurance industry. in theory, maybe not so bad. but you would be eliminating millions of jobs.
yes there would be thousands of jobs cut....and I'm convinced that is what keeps anyone from doing anything about it
the "tax" would have to be some % of employer payroll....and then a general increase in the income tax
my guess would be that employers would love it....health insurance in this country is a scam and is driven by monopolies....I'm not sure what your experience has been but I could bore you with stories about how screwed up this system is...the end result is that our health care is driven by greed and profit....not quality care
Try to pay attention to how many hospitals in your area advertise....how much money are they spending on this? Why? One example of billions of dollars tied up that has absolutely no relation to providing quality care.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
and lets say this miraculously "easy" shift takes place. the government has a proven track record of sucking bad at social programs. the cost will just go higher and higher and will be either be taxed more or print more money to pay for it.
when all else fails, pull the "gov't can't do anything right" card...
I had a healthcare discussion with my brother, a city firefighter and his brother-in-law, a police officer....both were saying private industry is better and the gov't can't run anything...I said "fine, let's privatize fire and police departments, you know, since private industry can do a much better job..."
interestingly, the conversation ended at that point...
that's a good comparison....can you imagine the bill you would get for fire services if your house caught on fire? Why should my neighbors pay for the fire dept to hose down my house? I'm the one who left the vibrator plugged in right?
Same for police...someone breaks in your house while your gone so you call the police once you discover...they send out detectives and start finding out who did it....lots of man hours there....would be very expensive
That would be the perfect idea to sell police insurance
but no we make it a public service and spread the cost to everyone....because we all benefit from this protecion
the same way we would ALL benefit from health care
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
yes there would be thousands of jobs cut....and I'm convinced that is what keeps anyone from doing anything about it
the "tax" would have to be some % of employer payroll....and then a general increase in the income tax
my guess would be that employers would love it....health insurance in this country is a scam and is driven by monopolies....I'm not sure what your experience has been but I could bore you with stories about how screwed up this system is...the end result is that our health care is driven by greed and profit....not quality care
Try to pay attention to how many hospitals in your area advertise....how much money are they spending on this? Why? One example of billions of dollars tied up that has absolutely no relation to providing quality care.
there is room for improvement and even government regulation. but not 100% control.
and lets say this miraculously "easy" shift takes place. the government has a proven track record of sucking bad at social programs. the cost will just go higher and higher and will be either be taxed more or print more money to pay for it.
when all else fails, pull the "gov't can't do anything right" card...
I had a healthcare discussion with my brother, a city firefighter and his brother-in-law, a police officer....both were saying private industry is better and the gov't can't run anything...I said "fine, let's privatize fire and police departments, you know, since private industry can do a much better job..."
interestingly, the conversation ended at that point...
not surprised you ignored where I said sucking at "social programs". there are many things the government IS good at. fire/police/military being one of them.
UHC would not be a "social program"...I see it more along the lines of health and safety...you know, like police and firefighters....
why do you assume UHC would suck...? as I've wondered before, those who currently have Medicaid and Medicare aren't forgoing those "sucky" programs for privately run insurance programs, are they...?
yes there would be thousands of jobs cut....and I'm convinced that is what keeps anyone from doing anything about it
the "tax" would have to be some % of employer payroll....and then a general increase in the income tax
my guess would be that employers would love it....health insurance in this country is a scam and is driven by monopolies....I'm not sure what your experience has been but I could bore you with stories about how screwed up this system is...the end result is that our health care is driven by greed and profit....not quality care
Try to pay attention to how many hospitals in your area advertise....how much money are they spending on this? Why? One example of billions of dollars tied up that has absolutely no relation to providing quality care.
there is room for improvement and even government regulation. but not 100% control.
my main point being that any private business could argue that they could do what gov't does for less cost....but there is also a point where the gov't can step in and do the same thing to a non public business....we have reached that point with health care
the bigger issue that I haven't seen here yet is that we as taxpayers already shoulder the burden of the poor who go to the hospitals and don't pay their bills....we already pay that
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
and there it is!
seriously...it's not a diffuclt concept to grasp, and yet...this is denied as 'impossible.'
it's been said in myriad different ways, but that is what it comes down to, really.
yea piece of cake :roll: we are talking about millions of jobs and trillions of dollars. yea, its so easy
yea...none of which i said.
our current system does not work well for us, and it certainly is possible to change it. piece of cake? no. easy? no. never said that. simply that it CAN be done. i along with many others have given suggestions as to, possibly, how it can even start to be addressed, but sure..i leave it to the thinkers/planners to work it all out. bottomline, if even i can see the possibilities, i highly doubt i am alone there.
also, do see threads by byrnzie and scb about healthcare.
don't worry about michael moore, it's not 'about' him, but about a healthcare insider speaking rather frankly....and see too the thread about healthcare rationing. and none of it is particularly surprising. sad, but unsurprising.
one thing you might find interesting, the health industry insider actually spoke to stats of those who receive meidcare, government run/funded healthcare...overall...have a higher satisfaction rating with their care than those who pay for private insurance.
and btw to Gern Blansten...
great posts...thanks for sharing your pov. it's always nice to see a fresh perspective expressed on this topic.
Comments
well ... if 70% truly want it and what it entails - it's workable ...
i guess that still leaves how you handle the various industries that are profiting from health care now ...
point being?
seriously..i love when other issues get brought into it, b/c really...it's apples and oranges.
however, overall...i'd say it's working ok. is it the very BEST it could be? nope. however, it is doing what it set out to do...offering at the very least a basic education to ALL children. i mean, that was the goal. but i am not hear to debate public education. this thread is about healthcare. so yea...i'll stick to that topic.
i've heard/read similar stats....but i am not great with linking sources, so i just figured...it's a-ok to even say, none of us *know* what everyone wants......but IF it is what the people want, we should work towards it, and yea....it will be difficult, but anything is doable if desired and worked towards.
and this:
sadly, is probably the biggest obstacle. far too many have been profiting far too long and too much on our healthcare. it should not even be a *worry*...but you bet, it is. that is probbly my biggest 'worry' about it all. instead of really going after what we want, working towards what we want...we may end up with half-assed ideas implemented simply to kow-tow to the big healthcare corps. it shouldn't be that way, at all. we shall see what gets hammered out, i want to remain hopeful......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
point being that public education is a so called "socialist" program ... a program that i think is failing in many regards with reasons alluding to my point about healthcare ...
again, believe me....i 'got' that....it was not a subtle point.
however, as i said...it's really apples and oranges. different program. and yea, as much as people bitch about public education, i also don't imagine mny wanting to see it disappear either. that said, i don't want to debate public education. this is about healthcare. and sure, while related to a degree, public/social programs and all.......we already have public education, but we don't have full, lifetime public healthcare for all.
personally, i will take public education and all it's failings.....than no public education. i also would happily take UHC for all, for life....over our current, for profit healthcare industry that leaves out many, doesn't fully serve even those who do pay in, etc. however, i definitely respect there are differences of opinion on such preferences...;)
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
In what context are you referring to socialism as a proven not good thing?
any country that has been communist. I'm all for government stepping in to help those less fortunate, or children, or elderly. but what I don't want is the government to have 100% control of the healthcare system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
if you look at the top of the list - you could say that the HDI favours socialist countries ...
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
and...?
if we have plenty of money, why do you have such a high deficit?
what do you mean and? this shows you we do NOT have plenty of money.
you tell me...
personally I'm guessing it has something to do with military spending...sprinkled with corporate welfare and tax shelters in the Turks and Caicos islands....
and by the way...I love the the whole "we can't afford it" arguement...other counties do it, there is no reason we can't....
you seem to not understand what a deficit is. but yes, these are 2 of many reasons for them.
there are plenty of reasons. one being, we dont have enough money. we are running a huge deficit. not to mention UHC would cost trillions of dollars. we aren't exactly talking about tacking on some little thing to the budget. Healthcare is by far and away the most expensive program.
1) I gave 3 reasons...
2) since I don't understand, please share your knowledge
3) if other countries can do it, why can't the good ol' God Bless America US of A provide UHC...?
we all pay for it now...universal care would remove the profit centers that are insurance companies and free up billions of dollars to provide care rather than line CEO's pockets
we just have to "shift" how we are paying for it now from monthly insurance premiums to an increase in taxes
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
makes sense to me... :!:
and there it is!
seriously...it's not a diffuclt concept to grasp, and yet...this is denied as 'impossible.'
it's been said in myriad different ways, but that is what it comes down to, really.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
so basically force everyone to pay into a system that may or may not work for them. I currently pay about $70 a month and my employer picks up around $300. but not all companies do that.
at my first job, a small business with about 20 employees, they didnt offer health care coverage. I paid my own for about $150 a month with a high deductible. it was basically for emergencies only. under UHC, you would force companies like this to pay? how much? enough to the point that some of those 20 employees would surely be let go.
not to mention you want to completely eliminate the insurance industry. in theory, maybe not so bad. but you would be eliminating millions of jobs.
yea piece of cake :roll: we are talking about millions of jobs and trillions of dollars. yea, its so easy
when all else fails, pull the "gov't can't do anything right" card...
I had a healthcare discussion with my brother, a city firefighter and his brother-in-law, a police officer....both were saying private industry is better and the gov't can't run anything...I said "fine, let's privatize fire and police departments, you know, since private industry can do a much better job..."
interestingly, the conversation ended at that point...
not surprised you ignored where I said sucking at "social programs". there are many things the government IS good at. fire/police/military being one of them.
yes there would be thousands of jobs cut....and I'm convinced that is what keeps anyone from doing anything about it
the "tax" would have to be some % of employer payroll....and then a general increase in the income tax
my guess would be that employers would love it....health insurance in this country is a scam and is driven by monopolies....I'm not sure what your experience has been but I could bore you with stories about how screwed up this system is...the end result is that our health care is driven by greed and profit....not quality care
Try to pay attention to how many hospitals in your area advertise....how much money are they spending on this? Why? One example of billions of dollars tied up that has absolutely no relation to providing quality care.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
that's a good comparison....can you imagine the bill you would get for fire services if your house caught on fire? Why should my neighbors pay for the fire dept to hose down my house? I'm the one who left the vibrator plugged in right?
Same for police...someone breaks in your house while your gone so you call the police once you discover...they send out detectives and start finding out who did it....lots of man hours there....would be very expensive
That would be the perfect idea to sell police insurance
but no we make it a public service and spread the cost to everyone....because we all benefit from this protecion
the same way we would ALL benefit from health care
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
there is room for improvement and even government regulation. but not 100% control.
UHC would not be a "social program"...I see it more along the lines of health and safety...you know, like police and firefighters....
why do you assume UHC would suck...? as I've wondered before, those who currently have Medicaid and Medicare aren't forgoing those "sucky" programs for privately run insurance programs, are they...?
my main point being that any private business could argue that they could do what gov't does for less cost....but there is also a point where the gov't can step in and do the same thing to a non public business....we have reached that point with health care
the bigger issue that I haven't seen here yet is that we as taxpayers already shoulder the burden of the poor who go to the hospitals and don't pay their bills....we already pay that
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
yea...none of which i said.
our current system does not work well for us, and it certainly is possible to change it. piece of cake? no. easy? no. never said that. simply that it CAN be done. i along with many others have given suggestions as to, possibly, how it can even start to be addressed, but sure..i leave it to the thinkers/planners to work it all out. bottomline, if even i can see the possibilities, i highly doubt i am alone there.
also, do see threads by byrnzie and scb about healthcare.
don't worry about michael moore, it's not 'about' him, but about a healthcare insider speaking rather frankly....and see too the thread about healthcare rationing. and none of it is particularly surprising. sad, but unsurprising.
one thing you might find interesting, the health industry insider actually spoke to stats of those who receive meidcare, government run/funded healthcare...overall...have a higher satisfaction rating with their care than those who pay for private insurance.
and btw to Gern Blansten...
great posts...thanks for sharing your pov. it's always nice to see a fresh perspective expressed on this topic.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow