part of the reason health care costs so much

Pepe Silvia

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/special ... tions-2008

last year:

Ron Williams, CEO of Aetna, made $24,300,112
H. Edward Hanway, CEO of Cigna, made $12,236,740
Angela Braly, CEO of WellPoint, made $9,844,212
Dale Wolf, CEO of Coventry Health Care, made $9,047,469
Michael Neidorff, CEO of Centene, made $8,774,483
James Carlson, CEO of AMERIGROUP, made $5,292,546
Michael McCalliste, CEO of Humana, made $4,764,309
Jay Gellert, CEO of Health Net, made $4,425,355
Richard Barasch, CEO of Universal American, made $3,503,702
Stephen Hemsley, CEO of UnitedHealth Group, made $3,241,042


some of these CEO's compensation included personal travel on the company jet for the family. Ron Williams has been well rewarded for dropping 8 million customers who were using their health insurance too much and 15,000 employees

Jeanwah

Many of these insurance companies were clients for a publishing company I used to worked for. And I'm not surprised of these figures.

Although the largest and most difficult client we had - Kaiser Permanente - is not on your list? I can't imagine what he'd make. Kaiser was in Sicko for changing the rules in Washington regarding health insurance companies...

decides2dream

indeed!
and really, are these positions 'necessary'....as in, for caring for HEALTH? no. the are necessary for running a profitable business. if we weren't running healthcare like a business venture to enrichen stockholders financially, and only focused on trying to enrichen people's lives with improved HEALTH....it would be a very different story.

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/special-reports/total-package-health-plan-ceo-compensations-2008

last year:

Ron Williams, CEO of Aetna, made $24,300,112
H. Edward Hanway, CEO of Cigna, made $12,236,740
Angela Braly, CEO of WellPoint, made $9,844,212
Dale Wolf, CEO of Coventry Health Care, made $9,047,469
Michael Neidorff, CEO of Centene, made $8,774,483
James Carlson, CEO of AMERIGROUP, made $5,292,546
Michael McCalliste, CEO of Humana, made $4,764,309
Jay Gellert, CEO of Health Net, made $4,425,355
Richard Barasch, CEO of Universal American, made $3,503,702
Stephen Hemsley, CEO of UnitedHealth Group, made $3,241,042


some of these CEO's received compensation for traveling on the company jet! Ron Williams has been well rewarded for dropping 8 million customers who were using their health insurance too much and 15,000 employees

WOW, just wow. this is the most misleading thing I've ever seen.


I'll take the top guy as an example and this applies to EVERYONE on that little list.

Ron Williams - Aetna

Total Compensation: $24,300,112

Details: Williams earned $24,300,112 in total compensation for 2008, with more than half of that ($13,537,365) coming from option awards. He also received an additional $6,456,630 in stock awards to go along with his base salary of $1,091,764.


stock options as well as stock awards is money that comes from OUTSIDE investors who buy stock in the company. that has NOTHING to do with the cost of healthcare.

the one million salary, sure that does but o well. dont get me started on CEO pay. there is nothing wrong with it.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/special-reports/total-package-health-plan-ceo-compensations-2008

last year:

Ron Williams, CEO of Aetna, made $24,300,112
H. Edward Hanway, CEO of Cigna, made $12,236,740
Angela Braly, CEO of WellPoint, made $9,844,212
Dale Wolf, CEO of Coventry Health Care, made $9,047,469
Michael Neidorff, CEO of Centene, made $8,774,483
James Carlson, CEO of AMERIGROUP, made $5,292,546
Michael McCalliste, CEO of Humana, made $4,764,309
Jay Gellert, CEO of Health Net, made $4,425,355
Richard Barasch, CEO of Universal American, made $3,503,702
Stephen Hemsley, CEO of UnitedHealth Group, made $3,241,042


some of these CEO's received compensation for traveling on the company jet! Ron Williams has been well rewarded for dropping 8 million customers who were using their health insurance too much and 15,000 employees

WOW, just wow. this is the most misleading thing I've ever seen.


I'll take the top guy as an example and this applies to EVERYONE on that little list.

Ron Williams - Aetna

Total Compensation: $24,300,112

Details: Williams earned $24,300,112 in total compensation for 2008, with more than half of that ($13,537,365) coming from option awards. He also received an additional $6,456,630 in stock awards to go along with his base salary of $1,091,764.


stock options as well as stock awards is money that comes from OUTSIDE investors who buy stock in the company. that has NOTHING to do with the cost of healthcare.

the one million salary, sure that does but o well. dont get me started on CEO pay. there is nothing wrong with it.

Are you joking? How does stock price go up? Increased profits to make more desirable dividends. How do you increase profits? Cut expenses and payouts and hike your rates. Stock options create a very powerful incentive for short term gain at the expense of long-term stability and customer care. It's all part of our slash and burn economy.

_

jlew24asu wrote:

WOW, just wow. this is the most misleading thing I've ever seen.

Wait - you mean you didn't actually read the article you posted in the abortion thread then?

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

Are you joking? How does stock price go up? Increased profits to make more desirable dividends. How do you increase profits? Cut expenses and payouts and hike your rates. Stock options create a very powerful incentive for short term gain at the expense of long-term stability and customer care. It's all part of our slash and burn economy.

no, I'm not joking. this article and thread would like you to believe that all this money are direct reasons why health care costs are high. thats simply not true.

and what you mentioned is not the only way to increase profits....its gaining new customers is what really drives profit. and with so competition, prices dont fly out of control.

jlew24asu

scb wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

WOW, just wow. this is the most misleading thing I've ever seen.

Wait - you mean you didn't actually read the article you posted in the abortion thread then?

ha. touche

Indifference

Well here is another major reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSe3C5vMafM

jlew24asu

Indifference wrote:

Well here is another major reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSe3C5vMafM

yup, there are millions of people who pay NOTHING into the system yet have access to our healthcare system. I'm all for helping those people but Americans simply cant afford to anymore.

and what really drives the cost of care up is how FAT Americans have gotten along with smoking. there are just too many people who need care and not enough people to take care of them. supply and demand usually always works.

decides2dream

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Are you joking? How does stock price go up? Increased profits to make more desirable dividends. How do you increase profits? Cut expenses and payouts and hike your rates. Stock options create a very powerful incentive for short term gain at the expense of long-term stability and customer care. It's all part of our slash and burn economy.

no, I'm not joking. this article and thread would like you to believe that all this money are direct reasons why health care costs are high. thats simply not true.

and what you mentioned is not the only way to increase profits....its gaining new customers is what really drives profit. and with so competition, prices dont fly out of control.

and if we didn't run healthcare as means to make profit, but focus solely on HEALTHCARE....none of that would even matter.


(and i know this is where you say w/o competition and profit there is no motivation for quality care...that our quality of care will be in the toilet, yada, yada.....and yea....i completely disagree)

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Are you joking? How does stock price go up? Increased profits to make more desirable dividends. How do you increase profits? Cut expenses and payouts and hike your rates. Stock options create a very powerful incentive for short term gain at the expense of long-term stability and customer care. It's all part of our slash and burn economy.

no, I'm not joking. this article and thread would like you to believe that all this money are direct reasons why health care costs are high. thats simply not true.

and what you mentioned is not the only way to increase profits....its gaining new customers is what really drives profit. and with so competition, prices dont fly out of control.

he also created a system to find companies and people they thought used insurance too much and raised their rates to absurd amounts and was able to dump 8 million customers this way to save Aetna money...obviously he was looking to save money, not help customers

they also received other compensation like personal use of the company jet

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/special-reports/total-package-health-plan-ceo-compensations-2008

last year:

Ron Williams, CEO of Aetna, made $24,300,112
H. Edward Hanway, CEO of Cigna, made $12,236,740
Angela Braly, CEO of WellPoint, made $9,844,212
Dale Wolf, CEO of Coventry Health Care, made $9,047,469
Michael Neidorff, CEO of Centene, made $8,774,483
James Carlson, CEO of AMERIGROUP, made $5,292,546
Michael McCalliste, CEO of Humana, made $4,764,309
Jay Gellert, CEO of Health Net, made $4,425,355
Richard Barasch, CEO of Universal American, made $3,503,702
Stephen Hemsley, CEO of UnitedHealth Group, made $3,241,042


some of these CEO's received compensation for traveling on the company jet! Ron Williams has been well rewarded for dropping 8 million customers who were using their health insurance too much and 15,000 employees

WOW, just wow. this is the most misleading thing I've ever seen.


I'll take the top guy as an example and this applies to EVERYONE on that little list.

Ron Williams - Aetna

Total Compensation: $24,300,112

Details: Williams earned $24,300,112 in total compensation for 2008, with more than half of that ($13,537,365) coming from option awards. He also received an additional $6,456,630 in stock awards to go along with his base salary of $1,091,764.


stock options as well as stock awards is money that comes from OUTSIDE investors who buy stock in the company. that has NOTHING to do with the cost of healthcare.

the one million salary, sure that does but o well. dont get me started on CEO pay. there is nothing wrong with it.

actually those options are the result of "Treasury Stock" which is stock that the company has bought back from shareholders....so it is incorrect to say that it doesn't come from the company

polaris_x

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

jlew24asu

polaris_x wrote:

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

I'm glad you put that #1. that is by far the top reason. but in regards to #2, its also that we demand high levels of specialized care, which is expensive.. but this leads to high quality of care that we want.

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

I'm glad you put that #1. that is by far the top reason. but in regards to #2, its also that we demand high levels of specialized care, which is expensive.. but this leads to high quality of care that we want.

and because health insurance companies need to make more and more profit every quarter. Aetna wasn't making enough of a profit for their liking so they replaced the CEO with Ron WIlliams who went about raising premiums on companies and individuals whose use of their insurance benefits cut into Aetna's profits....so they targeted these people and raised their rates to absurd levels and was able to get rid of 8 million customers increasing their profits (he also laid off 15,000 employees)

didn't those 8 million people deserve high quality care???

Jeanwah

polaris_x wrote:

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

I've noticed in my last two jobs in the last 8 years, that companies are offering wellness programs and incentives to keep employees healthy. It's an obvious move to save money, as well as keep people informed about having a healthy lifestyle (I loved the fitness center at both companies) as well as fewer lost work days due to sick days.

Healthier staff = more days worked and less money spent on health care.

Gern Blansten

Jeanwah wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

I've noticed in my last two jobs in the last 8 years, that companies are offering wellness programs and incentives to keep employees healthy. It's an obvious move to save money, as well as keep people informed about having a healthy lifestyle (I loved the fitness center at both companies) as well as fewer lost work days due to sick days.

Healthier staff = more days worked and less money spent on health care.

yeah I wondered if they got some kind of discount on their group health insurance for creating a wellness program

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

and because health insurance companies need to make more and more profit every quarter. Aetna wasn't making enough of a profit for their liking so they replaced the CEO with Ron WIlliams who went about raising premiums on companies and individuals whose use of their insurance benefits cut into Aetna's profits....so they targeted these people and raised their rates to absurd levels and was able to get rid of 8 million customers increasing their profits (he also laid off 15,000 employees)

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

didn't those 8 million people deserve high quality care???

deserve it? I dont know. never met any of those 8 million people.

polaris_x

Jeanwah wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

I've noticed in my last two jobs in the last 8 years, that companies are offering wellness programs and incentives to keep employees healthy. It's an obvious move to save money, as well as keep people informed about having a healthy lifestyle (I loved the fitness center at both companies) as well as fewer lost work days due to sick days.

Healthier staff = more days worked and less money spent on health care.

makes perfect sense

jlew24asu

Jeanwah wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

it's simple ... health care costs are so high because of 2 main things:

1. people are unhealthy
2. everyone in the health care chain has to make a significant buck

I've noticed in my last two jobs in the last 8 years, that companies are offering wellness programs and incentives to keep employees healthy. It's an obvious move to save money, as well as keep people informed about having a healthy lifestyle (I loved the fitness center at both companies) as well as fewer lost work days due to sick days.

Healthier staff = more days worked and less money spent on health care.

Obama should give companies like this tax breaks or huge incentives to do just this.

_

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

and because health insurance companies need to make more and more profit every quarter. Aetna wasn't making enough of a profit for their liking so they replaced the CEO with Ron WIlliams who went about raising premiums on companies and individuals whose use of their insurance benefits cut into Aetna's profits....so they targeted these people and raised their rates to absurd levels and was able to get rid of 8 million customers increasing their profits (he also laid off 15,000 employees)

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

didn't those 8 million people deserve high quality care???

So how would you judge whether or not they deserve it?

deserve it? I dont know. never met any of those 8 million people.

JaneNY

(edit - quoted wrong part)

jlew24asu wrote:

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

Like what? If they were 'using' their insurance more, they were probably sick. If this company drops them how do they get new insurance with what is now 'pre-existing' condition?

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

and because health insurance companies need to make more and more profit every quarter. Aetna wasn't making enough of a profit for their liking so they replaced the CEO with Ron WIlliams who went about raising premiums on companies and individuals whose use of their insurance benefits cut into Aetna's profits....so they targeted these people and raised their rates to absurd levels and was able to get rid of 8 million customers increasing their profits (he also laid off 15,000 employees)

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

before you said:
'its gaining new customers is what really drives profit.' but Aetna increased their profits by having less customers and being selective about only keeping customers that didn't use their insurance that much....so you have to ask why is Aetna in the health insurance business? it's obviously not to help people get health care, so why? profit?

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

didn't those 8 million people deserve high quality care???

jlew24asu wrote:

deserve it? I dont know. never met any of those 8 million people.

why wouldn't anyone deserve quality care??

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

before you said:
'its gaining new customers is what really drives profit.' but Aetna increased their profits by having less customers and being selective about only keeping customers that didn't use their insurance that much....so you have to ask why is Aetna in the health insurance business? it's obviously not to help people get health care, so why? profit?

its a cost cutting move. its helps in the short run... not the long.

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

why wouldn't anyone deserve quality care??

they deserve whatever it is someone else is willing to offer them.

you obviously think healthcare is right, correct? is eating a right?

jlew24asu

JaneNY wrote:

(edit - quoted wrong part)

jlew24asu wrote:

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

Like what?

another insurance company. do you want me to list them?

JaneNY wrote:

If they were 'using' their insurance more, they were probably sick. If this company drops them how do they get new insurance with what is now 'pre-existing' condition?

I've said this many times....I support the government treating healthcare like an unemployment benefit. or if a person has a pre existing condition.

regardless of what I feel, insurance companies will take a person with a pre-existing condition. but they wll have to pay a higher premium. you know why? doctors dont work for free.

decides2dream

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

and because health insurance companies need to make more and more profit every quarter. Aetna wasn't making enough of a profit for their liking so they replaced the CEO with Ron WIlliams who went about raising premiums on companies and individuals whose use of their insurance benefits cut into Aetna's profits....so they targeted these people and raised their rates to absurd levels and was able to get rid of 8 million customers increasing their profits (he also laid off 15,000 employees)

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

didn't those 8 million people deserve high quality care???

deserve it? I dont know. never met any of those 8 million people.

you do realize, for many people...they DON't have a choice. they get their health insurance thru their work, they pay part, their employer pays part. if their employer didn't pay part, they couldn't afford it. so don't make it sound like there is just so much choice in this...b/c there isn't. oh yea, they can just go out and get another job with more choices right? puh-leese.

i am well-educated, i have a good job, my employer ranks on the fortune 500 top 100 companies every year. i have very little 'choice' in my health care options.


and in regards to 'deserving' qulaity healthcare...are you serious? do you need to 'meet and know' someone to determine if they *deserve* quality healthcare? seriously...wtf. :?

_

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

and because health insurance companies need to make more and more profit every quarter. Aetna wasn't making enough of a profit for their liking so they replaced the CEO with Ron WIlliams who went about raising premiums on companies and individuals whose use of their insurance benefits cut into Aetna's profits....so they targeted these people and raised their rates to absurd levels and was able to get rid of 8 million customers increasing their profits (he also laid off 15,000 employees)

ok and? Aetna is not the only player in the game. those 8 million people are free to move on to a cheaper alternative....

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

didn't those 8 million people deserve high quality care???

deserve it? I dont know. never met any of those 8 million people.

What are your criteria for determining whether or not a given human being deserves quality health care (besides having to know you personally)?

jlew24asu

scb wrote:

What are your criteria for determining whether or not a given human being deserves quality health care (besides having to know you personally)?

people don't work for free.


if I'm hungry, am I within my rights to demand you feed me?

_

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

What are your criteria for determining whether or not a given human being deserves quality health care (besides having to know you personally)?

people don't work for free.


if I'm hungry, am I within my rights to demand you feed me?

That is clearly not an answer to the question.

You said you don't know whether the people in Niblett's post deserve quality healthcare because you hadn't met them. I am asking: If you did meet them, how would you then determine whether or not they deserve quality healthcare?

Please answer the question.

jlew24asu

scb wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

What are your criteria for determining whether or not a given human being deserves quality health care (besides having to know you personally)?

people don't work for free.


if I'm hungry, am I within my rights to demand you feed me?

That is clearly not an answer to the question.

You said you don't know whether the people in Niblett's post deserve quality healthcare because you hadn't met them. I am asking: If you did meet them, how would you then determine whether or not they deserve quality healthcare?

Please answer the question.

I did answer your question. people dont work for free.

now answer mine.

if I'm hungry, am I within my right for force you to feed me?