Cryptocurrencies

unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
edited November 23 in A Moving Train
Anyone do bitcoin or any other digital currency?

I am in btc, eth, etc, ltc, doge, xem, pivx, and gnt right now.

Maybe we can learn a little more from others.
Post edited by unsung on
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Comments

  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    edited April 9
    Pretty good bitcoin documentary for those just starting.

    Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution

    http://imdb.com/rg/an_share/title/title/tt6467152/

    Free watch on Amazon if Prime member.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,436
    Is it secure? I'm not techy enough to know, but I don't suppose I would trust it even if I was. I don't truly trust paper money or gold in the long term, so money that disappears when the power goes out wouldn't make the cut for me.
    Then again, it probably has it's upsides.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    edited April 9
    Most if them have offline wallets, which look similar to a usb drive. I use the Ledger Nano S, so far so good. It is pretty much impossible to hack since it is a external device.

    In the case of a mass power outage gold and silver would probably best for the long term.

    Bitcoin has generally stabilized but is designed to get increasingly hard to get so the value is expected to still rise greatly.

    One of the first btc transactions was 10,000 for some pizzas, today each are worth ~$1200.
    Post edited by unsung on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,610
    edited April 9
    I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
    I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,154
    I'm super conservative and wary when it comes to investing. I don't trust anything I can't put may hands on- cash (although I realize that is ephemeral as well), silver or gold (wish I had more of that stuff!), out-of-print LPs and toilet paper (In Pat Franks Alas Babylon one of the things one characters realized she should have stocked up on was toilet paper. I suppose there is always mullein and lamb's ear leaves, at least around here anyway.)
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
    I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.

    Watch that movie. You eliminate the middle man in transactions and save a lot in fees alone. Plus it is nearly instant and once sent can't be disputed so as a seller the buyer can't void the check in a sense.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,436
    brianlux said:

    I'm super conservative and wary when it comes to investing. I don't trust anything I can't put may hands on- cash (although I realize that is ephemeral as well), silver or gold (wish I had more of that stuff!), out-of-print LPs and toilet paper (In Pat Franks Alas Babylon one of the things one characters realized she should have stocked up on was toilet paper. I suppose there is always mullein and lamb's ear leaves, at least around here anyway.)

    I'm with you, long term investments for me are durable tools and dependable skills.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • I don't know the full details of bitcoin. I just wonder how a digital currency manifested and is accepted in some but not other worlds as means of payment.
    When tax season rolls around do you have to declare bitcoin income?
    Once in awhile when bitcoin comes up I do a little research but don't go full throttle and this is one of those times.
    How does one even start to look for a bitcoin?
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,154
    rgambs said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm super conservative and wary when it comes to investing. I don't trust anything I can't put may hands on- cash (although I realize that is ephemeral as well), silver or gold (wish I had more of that stuff!), out-of-print LPs and toilet paper (In Pat Franks Alas Babylon one of the things one characters realized she should have stocked up on was toilet paper. I suppose there is always mullein and lamb's ear leaves, at least around here anyway.)

    I'm with you, long term investments for me are durable tools and dependable skills.
    Right on! Durable, dependable, useful, skillful. Hard to beat that!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    Open a coinbase acct. It is really easy.

    Mining isn't really profitable for an individual anymore as the electric bill exceeds the bitcoin mined.
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 9,377
    One of my friends is always talking about bitcoin and how I should buy into it. That'd be all fine and dandy if I had an extra $1200 burning a hole in my pocket.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,436
    What is the goal, the purpose, the reason? I don't get it, I thought it was just a way to pay for things online, like PayPal lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889

    One of my friends is always talking about bitcoin and how I should buy into it. That'd be all fine and dandy if I had an extra $1200 burning a hole in my pocket.

    Well you can buy fractions of a bitcoin, it isn't too late.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    rgambs said:

    What is the goal, the purpose, the reason? I don't get it, I thought it was just a way to pay for things online, like PayPal lol

    Paypal is the transfer system of currency, bitcoin is both. No middle man, extremely low fees.

    It is also a hedge against manipulated currencies and it is designed to deflate rather than inflate. Some who really understand how it works say that value by 2030 could be $100k-500k.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,436
    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    What is the goal, the purpose, the reason? I don't get it, I thought it was just a way to pay for things online, like PayPal lol

    Paypal is the transfer system of currency, bitcoin is both. No middle man, extremely low fees.

    It is also a hedge against manipulated currencies and it is designed to deflate rather than inflate. Some who really understand how it works say that value by 2030 could be $100k-500k.
    That's wild, I have a hard time believing it, but it makes about as much sense as gold so why not lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,610
    edited April 10
    unsung said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
    I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.

    Watch that movie. You eliminate the middle man in transactions and save a lot in fees alone. Plus it is nearly instant and once sent can't be disputed so as a seller the buyer can't void the check in a sense.
    Well you definitely seem to have drank the Kool-Aid on this one, eh? I am surprised that you, of all people, are being so trusting of a documentary that seems, based on the preview, to be a huge commercial. I personally feel very wary of the whole thing precisely because there is no third party. Of all the regulations in the world, I happen to think banking regulations are the most needed. I am not on with exorbitant fees of course (which I pay none of for online transaction btw - maybe you need a better banking plan if you're paying fees for online transactions). But to have all of your money exist solely online without any kind of entity managing it makes me incredibly nervous, and I'm not about to jump on that train until it has had plenty of time to prove itself as a major currency. Right now it's not really breaking through into the mainstream at all (which is likely the reason for that documentary about how so very revolutionary the whole deal is). I'm not saying that someday it might be the norm and somehow safe. I'm not saying I'm writing it off. I'm just saying that I think extreme caution should be the #1 priority on this one.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,610
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    rgambs said:

    What is the goal, the purpose, the reason? I don't get it, I thought it was just a way to pay for things online, like PayPal lol

    Paypal is the transfer system of currency, bitcoin is both. No middle man, extremely low fees.

    It is also a hedge against manipulated currencies and it is designed to deflate rather than inflate. Some who really understand how it works say that value by 2030 could be $100k-500k.
    That's wild, I have a hard time believing it, but it makes about as much sense as gold so why not lol
    It is wild indeed. I would need to know exactly who those people "who really understand how it works" are and extremely detailed info on their finances and how they stand to benefit from talking it up like that (if at all) before believing them.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
    I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.

    Watch that movie. You eliminate the middle man in transactions and save a lot in fees alone. Plus it is nearly instant and once sent can't be disputed so as a seller the buyer can't void the check in a sense.
    Well you definitely seem to have drank the Kool-Aid on this one, eh? I am surprised that you, of all people, are being so trusting of a documentary that seems, based on the preview, to be a huge commercial. I personally feel very wary of the whole thing precisely because there is no third party. Of all the regulations in the world, I happen to think banking regulations are the most needed. I am not on with exorbitant fees of course (which I pay none of for online transaction btw - maybe you need a better banking plan if you're paying fees for online transactions). But to have all of your money exist solely online without any kind of entity managing it makes me incredibly nervous, and I'm not about to jump on that train until it has had plenty of time to prove itself as a major currency. Right now it's not really breaking through into the mainstream at all (which is likely the reason for that documentary about how so very revolutionary the whole deal is). I'm not saying that someday it might be the norm and somehow safe. I'm not saying I'm writing it off. I'm just saying that I think extreme caution should be the #1 priority on this one.
    First investor in SnapChat

    Is that enough Kool Aid for you?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,610
    edited April 10
    unsung said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
    I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.

    Watch that movie. You eliminate the middle man in transactions and save a lot in fees alone. Plus it is nearly instant and once sent can't be disputed so as a seller the buyer can't void the check in a sense.
    Well you definitely seem to have drank the Kool-Aid on this one, eh? I am surprised that you, of all people, are being so trusting of a documentary that seems, based on the preview, to be a huge commercial. I personally feel very wary of the whole thing precisely because there is no third party. Of all the regulations in the world, I happen to think banking regulations are the most needed. I am not on with exorbitant fees of course (which I pay none of for online transaction btw - maybe you need a better banking plan if you're paying fees for online transactions). But to have all of your money exist solely online without any kind of entity managing it makes me incredibly nervous, and I'm not about to jump on that train until it has had plenty of time to prove itself as a major currency. Right now it's not really breaking through into the mainstream at all (which is likely the reason for that documentary about how so very revolutionary the whole deal is). I'm not saying that someday it might be the norm and somehow safe. I'm not saying I'm writing it off. I'm just saying that I think extreme caution should be the #1 priority on this one.
    First investor in SnapChat

    Is that enough Kool Aid for you?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3
    No, should it be??? I guess you didn't know that Snapchat lost $514 million in 2016 and is having trouble even figuring out how it will EVER make any money? I'm not sure you should be basing your financial decisions on what SnapChat happens to do, lol.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/snapchat-lost-514-million-in-2016-warns-it-may-never-be-profitable-2017-2

    Also, they said that the bitcoin would gain all that value by 2030 IF enough people buy into it between now and then. They said they'd need the equivalent of about half the population of China to do so for it to work out like that. That is a great big if. It is just as likely that bitcoin will not catch on in those numbers, which would mean that the value would plummet by 2030. As I said, caution should be used here - you seem eager to just plow full steam ahead just because of some predictions that rely on a bunch of "ifs". Be careful! Investing now could work out great, like it did for those lucky fuckers who bought stocks in Apple and Microsoft and Facebook. On the other hand, you could just as easily end up being on the other end of spectrum, with all the people who put their life savings into AOL or Blockbuster Video. And risk is the name of the game when it comes to investments. And with bitcoin, if you drink the Kool-Aid and go all in and decide to drop banking in favour of it, that is ALL your money that goes with it rather than just a certain amount of it that you put in at the beginning like with normal stocks.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

    Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

    I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,610
    edited April 10
    unsung said:

    Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

    Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

    I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.

    What in the fuck are you talking about? I just brought up some good points that I thought people might find useful, yourself included, and in . There is nothing miserable about it. Is this how you react when confronted with information that counters your own opinion or what?
    It is fucking hilarious that you of all people told me not to be so miserable, or called me out on turning every thread into an argument. The irony is thick. Especially since YOU just singlehandedly turned this into an argument once someone said some stuff that disagrees with your view.

    Anyway, on to the DISCUSSION I was trying to have, if your delicate ego can stand it: You say only invest what you can afford to lose and to diversify. Okay, fair enough. That is good advice. But isn't the idea behind bitcoin and your whole point of liking it largely about getting out of a middle man situation altogether? You highlighted that point in this thread several times. That would mean a total conversion to bitcoin, wouldn't it? Otherwise, who cares about avoiding the middle man? It would seem pointless to go with bitcoin for that reason but only have 5% of your money invested in it. How is that going to get rid of the third party?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,154
    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
    I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.

    Watch that movie. You eliminate the middle man in transactions and save a lot in fees alone. Plus it is nearly instant and once sent can't be disputed so as a seller the buyer can't void the check in a sense.
    Well you definitely seem to have drank the Kool-Aid on this one, eh? I am surprised that you, of all people, are being so trusting of a documentary that seems, based on the preview, to be a huge commercial. I personally feel very wary of the whole thing precisely because there is no third party. Of all the regulations in the world, I happen to think banking regulations are the most needed. I am not on with exorbitant fees of course (which I pay none of for online transaction btw - maybe you need a better banking plan if you're paying fees for online transactions). But to have all of your money exist solely online without any kind of entity managing it makes me incredibly nervous, and I'm not about to jump on that train until it has had plenty of time to prove itself as a major currency. Right now it's not really breaking through into the mainstream at all (which is likely the reason for that documentary about how so very revolutionary the whole deal is). I'm not saying that someday it might be the norm and somehow safe. I'm not saying I'm writing it off. I'm just saying that I think extreme caution should be the #1 priority on this one.
    "Gotta satchel of gris-gris to cure all you's ills."
    -Dr. John the Night Tripper

    :lol:
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited April 11
    OP
    I think this is a great thread to discuss what is becoming a term in some conversation.
    That game back in it's day when it started called Second Life was the "invention" of digital currency to eventually carry over to the real world - or am I wrong?
    This digital currency is interesting.
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    Forgot about Second Life.

    There is a game, the name escapes me but if you search ten most expensive video game items sold it comes up. Anyway, the most expensive item was a virtual world in the form of a huge space station iirc. The owner would charge others to visit and set up their own stores, etc. He was pulling in big bucks on that alone. All digital.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889
    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

    Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

    I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.

    What in the fuck are you talking about? I just brought up some good points that I thought people might find useful, yourself included, and in . There is nothing miserable about it. Is this how you react when confronted with information that counters your own opinion or what?
    It is fucking hilarious that you of all people told me not to be so miserable, or called me out on turning every thread into an argument. The irony is thick. Especially since YOU just singlehandedly turned this into an argument once someone said some stuff that disagrees with your view.

    Anyway, on to the DISCUSSION I was trying to have, if your delicate ego can stand it: You say only invest what you can afford to lose and to diversify. Okay, fair enough. That is good advice. But isn't the idea behind bitcoin and your whole point of liking it largely about getting out of a middle man situation altogether? You highlighted that point in this thread several times. That would mean a total conversion to bitcoin, wouldn't it? Otherwise, who cares about avoiding the middle man? It would seem pointless to go with bitcoin for that reason but only have 5% of your money invested in it. How is that going to get rid of the third party?
    Honestly I would love to discuss this but when you tell someone that they are drinking the Kool-Aid it isn't generally a compliment. In fact, in these parts I recall it being called a racist term the last eight years. I am all for having a discussion, hence the thread, but please if you can't have a discussion with someone that you don't like (me) then just don't participate. This wasn't supposed to draw in all aspects of the political system, just a discussion on the future of money. Thanks.

    Moving on.

    If one is under the belief that 400m users is impossible in 13 years one should also consider that in the beginning 10k btc bought some pizza. Now the userbase is about 65m people and the actual btc market cap is about $19B.

    Slice that anyway you want, it is a lot of pizza.
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 1,358
    I have always associated bitcoin with the deep web.

    Misconception or is that what it was created for and primarily used?
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 9,377
    unsung said:

    One of my friends is always talking about bitcoin and how I should buy into it. That'd be all fine and dandy if I had an extra $1200 burning a hole in my pocket.

    Well you can buy fractions of a bitcoin, it isn't too late.
    Ah, didn't realize that. I may have to look into it then.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 4,034
    edited April 11

    I have always associated bitcoin with the deep web.

    Misconception or is that what it was created for and primarily used?

    There is definitely a lot of bitcoin usage involved in the dark web.

    http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-remains-most-popular-digital-currency-on-dark-web/
    Post edited by Bentleyspop on
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,889

    I have always associated bitcoin with the deep web.

    Misconception or is that what it was created for and primarily used?

    I think the use of btc and others on the dark web is a byproduct of the success of btc and not necessarily driven by it.

    Dark web markets will exist no matter if btc exists. As someone who has actually been on the original Silk Rd, not as a buyer just curious, it wasn't filled with just illegal drugs. Heck, I could remember seeing recipes for regular food, and btc was $13 at the time.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,610
    edited April 11
    unsung said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

    Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

    I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.

    What in the fuck are you talking about? I just brought up some good points that I thought people might find useful, yourself included, and in . There is nothing miserable about it. Is this how you react when confronted with information that counters your own opinion or what?
    It is fucking hilarious that you of all people told me not to be so miserable, or called me out on turning every thread into an argument. The irony is thick. Especially since YOU just singlehandedly turned this into an argument once someone said some stuff that disagrees with your view.

    Anyway, on to the DISCUSSION I was trying to have, if your delicate ego can stand it: You say only invest what you can afford to lose and to diversify. Okay, fair enough. That is good advice. But isn't the idea behind bitcoin and your whole point of liking it largely about getting out of a middle man situation altogether? You highlighted that point in this thread several times. That would mean a total conversion to bitcoin, wouldn't it? Otherwise, who cares about avoiding the middle man? It would seem pointless to go with bitcoin for that reason but only have 5% of your money invested in it. How is that going to get rid of the third party?
    Honestly I would love to discuss this but when you tell someone that they are drinking the Kool-Aid it isn't generally a compliment. In fact, in these parts I recall it being called a racist term the last eight years. I am all for having a discussion, hence the thread, but please if you can't have a discussion with someone that you don't like (me) then just don't participate. This wasn't supposed to draw in all aspects of the political system, just a discussion on the future of money. Thanks.

    Moving on.

    If one is under the belief that 400m users is impossible in 13 years one should also consider that in the beginning 10k btc bought some pizza. Now the userbase is about 65m people and the actual btc market cap is about $19B.

    Slice that anyway you want, it is a lot of pizza.
    Yeah well, I figure we should both be able to have a discussion even with the jabs - you do it as often as I do if not more, so I figure that evens it out. I really don't care.

    Anyway, yeah, as I said, maybe bitcoin will be that kind of success. But maybe not. Hence the risk. I brought up some of the issues that might prevent it from becoming a success. Adding to that, I feel like most of those who will buy bitcoins are doing so only as an investment and not because they are "believers". I just have a feeling that for bitcoin to truly succeed it would need to become a ubiquitous currency instead of more like stock. If everyone just treats it like stock instead of like a ubiquitous currency, which is definitely what's happening now, everyone will just sell it off at some point and it will basically collapse, having no backbone as real currency. I'm not actually saying that people shouldn't buy some bitcoins if they have the money to (I wish I did - I'd buy at least one or two of them if I could). I just think it seems pretty shaky as a real currency, and I gathered from your contributions in this thread that you are looking at in that way (given the whole "no middleman" appeal it seems to have for you. I think viewing them like that at this point is, at the very least, premature.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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