Cryptocurrencies

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.

What in the fuck are you talking about? I just brought up some good points that I thought people might find useful, yourself included, and in . There is nothing miserable about it. Is this how you react when confronted with information that counters your own opinion or what?
It is fucking hilarious that you of all people told me not to be so miserable, or called me out on turning every thread into an argument. The irony is thick. Especially since YOU just singlehandedly turned this into an argument once someone said some stuff that disagrees with your view.

Anyway, on to the DISCUSSION I was trying to have, if your delicate ego can stand it: You say only invest what you can afford to lose and to diversify. Okay, fair enough. That is good advice. But isn't the idea behind bitcoin and your whole point of liking it largely about getting out of a middle man situation altogether? You highlighted that point in this thread several times. That would mean a total conversion to bitcoin, wouldn't it? Otherwise, who cares about avoiding the middle man? It would seem pointless to go with bitcoin for that reason but only have 5% of your money invested in it. How is that going to get rid of the third party?

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

I am not a fan, but i REALLY wish I'd bought some bitcoins back when they were really cheap given that 1 bitcoin is now worth over $1200 USD.
I just don't understand the point of bitcoins. Money is essentially digital now anyway, if you want it to be.

Watch that movie. You eliminate the middle man in transactions and save a lot in fees alone. Plus it is nearly instant and once sent can't be disputed so as a seller the buyer can't void the check in a sense.

Well you definitely seem to have drank the Kool-Aid on this one, eh? I am surprised that you, of all people, are being so trusting of a documentary that seems, based on the preview, to be a huge commercial. I personally feel very wary of the whole thing precisely because there is no third party. Of all the regulations in the world, I happen to think banking regulations are the most needed. I am not on with exorbitant fees of course (which I pay none of for online transaction btw - maybe you need a better banking plan if you're paying fees for online transactions). But to have all of your money exist solely online without any kind of entity managing it makes me incredibly nervous, and I'm not about to jump on that train until it has had plenty of time to prove itself as a major currency. Right now it's not really breaking through into the mainstream at all (which is likely the reason for that documentary about how so very revolutionary the whole deal is). I'm not saying that someday it might be the norm and somehow safe. I'm not saying I'm writing it off. I'm just saying that I think extreme caution should be the #1 priority on this one.

"Gotta satchel of gris-gris to cure all you's ills."
-Dr. John the Night Tripper

PJfanwillneverleave1

OP
I think this is a great thread to discuss what is becoming a term in some conversation.
That game back in it's day when it started called Second Life was the "invention" of digital currency to eventually carry over to the real world - or am I wrong?
This digital currency is interesting.

unsung

Forgot about Second Life.

There is a game, the name escapes me but if you search ten most expensive video game items sold it comes up. Anyway, the most expensive item was a virtual world in the form of a huge space station iirc. The owner would charge others to visit and set up their own stores, etc. He was pulling in big bucks on that alone. All digital.

unsung

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.

What in the fuck are you talking about? I just brought up some good points that I thought people might find useful, yourself included, and in . There is nothing miserable about it. Is this how you react when confronted with information that counters your own opinion or what?
It is fucking hilarious that you of all people told me not to be so miserable, or called me out on turning every thread into an argument. The irony is thick. Especially since YOU just singlehandedly turned this into an argument once someone said some stuff that disagrees with your view.

Anyway, on to the DISCUSSION I was trying to have, if your delicate ego can stand it: You say only invest what you can afford to lose and to diversify. Okay, fair enough. That is good advice. But isn't the idea behind bitcoin and your whole point of liking it largely about getting out of a middle man situation altogether? You highlighted that point in this thread several times. That would mean a total conversion to bitcoin, wouldn't it? Otherwise, who cares about avoiding the middle man? It would seem pointless to go with bitcoin for that reason but only have 5% of your money invested in it. How is that going to get rid of the third party?

Honestly I would love to discuss this but when you tell someone that they are drinking the Kool-Aid it isn't generally a compliment. In fact, in these parts I recall it being called a racist term the last eight years. I am all for having a discussion, hence the thread, but please if you can't have a discussion with someone that you don't like (me) then just don't participate. This wasn't supposed to draw in all aspects of the political system, just a discussion on the future of money. Thanks.

Moving on.

If one is under the belief that 400m users is impossible in 13 years one should also consider that in the beginning 10k btc bought some pizza. Now the userbase is about 65m people and the actual btc market cap is about $19B.

Slice that anyway you want, it is a lot of pizza.

drakeheuer14

I have always associated bitcoin with the deep web.

Misconception or is that what it was created for and primarily used?

HesCalledDyer

unsung said:

HesCalledDyer said:

One of my friends is always talking about bitcoin and how I should buy into it. That'd be all fine and dandy if I had an extra $1200 burning a hole in my pocket.

Well you can buy fractions of a bitcoin, it isn't too late.

Ah, didn't realize that. I may have to look into it then.

Bentleyspop

drakeheuer14 said:

I have always associated bitcoin with the deep web.

Misconception or is that what it was created for and primarily used?

There is definitely a lot of bitcoin usage involved in the dark web.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-remains-most-popular-digital-currency-on-dark-web/

unsung

drakeheuer14 said:

I have always associated bitcoin with the deep web.

Misconception or is that what it was created for and primarily used?

I think the use of btc and others on the dark web is a byproduct of the success of btc and not necessarily driven by it.

Dark web markets will exist no matter if btc exists. As someone who has actually been on the original Silk Rd, not as a buyer just curious, it wasn't filled with just illegal drugs. Heck, I could remember seeing recipes for regular food, and btc was $13 at the time.

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

Geez, leave to someone to turn every single thread into an argument. This was a topic that I thought would bring a good discussion.

Only invest what you can afford to lose. Diversify.

I get it, you don't like it. Stop being so miserable.

What in the fuck are you talking about? I just brought up some good points that I thought people might find useful, yourself included, and in . There is nothing miserable about it. Is this how you react when confronted with information that counters your own opinion or what?
It is fucking hilarious that you of all people told me not to be so miserable, or called me out on turning every thread into an argument. The irony is thick. Especially since YOU just singlehandedly turned this into an argument once someone said some stuff that disagrees with your view.

Anyway, on to the DISCUSSION I was trying to have, if your delicate ego can stand it: You say only invest what you can afford to lose and to diversify. Okay, fair enough. That is good advice. But isn't the idea behind bitcoin and your whole point of liking it largely about getting out of a middle man situation altogether? You highlighted that point in this thread several times. That would mean a total conversion to bitcoin, wouldn't it? Otherwise, who cares about avoiding the middle man? It would seem pointless to go with bitcoin for that reason but only have 5% of your money invested in it. How is that going to get rid of the third party?

Honestly I would love to discuss this but when you tell someone that they are drinking the Kool-Aid it isn't generally a compliment. In fact, in these parts I recall it being called a racist term the last eight years. I am all for having a discussion, hence the thread, but please if you can't have a discussion with someone that you don't like (me) then just don't participate. This wasn't supposed to draw in all aspects of the political system, just a discussion on the future of money. Thanks.

Moving on.

If one is under the belief that 400m users is impossible in 13 years one should also consider that in the beginning 10k btc bought some pizza. Now the userbase is about 65m people and the actual btc market cap is about $19B.

Slice that anyway you want, it is a lot of pizza.

Yeah well, I figure we should both be able to have a discussion even with the jabs - you do it as often as I do if not more, so I figure that evens it out. I really don't care.

Anyway, yeah, as I said, maybe bitcoin will be that kind of success. But maybe not. Hence the risk. I brought up some of the issues that might prevent it from becoming a success. Adding to that, I feel like most of those who will buy bitcoins are doing so only as an investment and not because they are "believers". I just have a feeling that for bitcoin to truly succeed it would need to become a ubiquitous currency instead of more like stock. If everyone just treats it like stock instead of like a ubiquitous currency, which is definitely what's happening now, everyone will just sell it off at some point and it will basically collapse, having no backbone as real currency. I'm not actually saying that people shouldn't buy some bitcoins if they have the money to (I wish I did - I'd buy at least one or two of them if I could). I just think it seems pretty shaky as a real currency, and I gathered from your contributions in this thread that you are looking at in that way (given the whole "no middleman" appeal it seems to have for you. I think viewing them like that at this point is, at the very least, premature.

jeffbr

It is a real currency, and a number of retailers and service providers accept it. I know there are bitcoin ATMs scattered around my area. Bitcoin allows privacy and protection for the buyer. It also allows for reduced transaction fees for the retailer. It is a pretty interesting, open source technology, and there is no single "owner" of the system. I was very skeptical initially, but find myself less skeptical now as control has changed a bit and it is less dependent on a single exchange. When an exchange in Japan went bankrupt in 2013 that caused a bit of a "crisis" which still keeps me from fully embracing bitcoin. Anyway, it has certainly moved past theoretical or proof of concept stage at this point. It's value is no more or less opaque than the value of any national currencies. Governments hate it because it is harder to track and control, which is a good reason to embrace it. It isn't tied to the ups and downs of politics and other markets. It's value is tied to its scarcity and the effort required to "mine" new bitcoins. The downside is that it is also more volatile than something like the dollar, partly because of something PJSoul mentioned in terms of people "investing" in bitcoin, rather than just using it as currency. If it was an actual currency, then sticking it under a mattress wouldn't be particularly prudent, but there are definitely people who stick their digital currency under their digital mattress and hope that it increases in value. Anyway, I'm neither pro- nor anti-bitcoin. I just find the concept and execution fascinating. It is certainly interesting from a technical standpoint, whether one embraces it or not.

HughFreakingDillon

I thought it went bankrupt a long time ago. there was an ATM in one of my local pizza shops a while back. it eventually disappeared.

PJ_Soul

I know it's a real currency, it's just not a ubiquitous currency (I didn't mean "real currency" in that way, but it was bad phrasing. I meant the usual hard currency). So being non-ubiquitous, Bitcoins are still a novelty. As for the ATMs... Vancouver was actually the first city in the world to get one of those, and it was all about bitcoin marketing. All the others are too. Bitcoin is essentially forcing itself into the economy with these kinds of tactics (and those who host the ATMs make money within 6 months to a year and a half IF the location is good. Those ATMs you're seeing tell you that the hosts are trying to capitalize, not necessarily that they are popular with the public). This is a fair and a perfectly legit tactic, but I'm not yet convinced that it will succeed in the long-term. It could go either way (obviously). I am just waiting to see how effective these tactics are long-term. There are mixed reviews at best as far as those ATMs go. ... We still haven't even seen a competitor crop up yet. I bet one is coming one of these days, especially if bitcoin starts picking up, and then who knows what could happen. Anyway, obviously my overall point is that a lot of caution is probably needed for those interested in getting into bitcoin. I think there are a lot of factors to consider before putting any real money into it, because its future is far from solidified at this point.

PS, especially for unsung - bitcoins aren't anonymous, FYI.

jeffbr

HughFreakingDillon said:

I thought it went bankrupt a long time ago. there was an ATM in one of my local pizza shops a while back. it eventually disappeared.

Yeah, one bitcoin ATM company closed up shop (Robocoin I believe). They owned the first Bitcoin ATM I saw. There's another one that has several ATMs in my area called Coinme. I don't know how many other bitcoin atm companies are out there.

unsung

No, it is not completely anonymous that is true. I still do prefer good ol cash for in person transactions.

I agree many are holding (I am one) to see how it turns out. But it is designed to increase in value and surely if everyone cashed out at once it would drop, but here we are at $1200 holding pretty steady. I know I have my own price point in mind when I will make a bigger buy and as it is I buy a little every pay pariod and have been doing so on an auto buy for three years. I missed the $13 window when I first saw it, but I am well ahead in any case.

I have seen the atms, kind of neat but I can do the same thing on my phone in a couple of minutes.

PJfanwillneverleave1

OP
Is bitcoin an actual legal currency?
When you make a purchase via bitcoin who records the transaction?
If I were to say buy a car w/ bitcoin do they have to accept since its a legal form of tender?
Kind of like buying something with 10,000 pennies. A merchant technically can't refuse.

unsung

As defined by govt not yet. 65m users would argue that.

The blockchain

Some may. Some may or may not accept gold or silver.

It is my belief that a private business should be able to refuse service for any reason at any time but that has been beat to death and will not matter here.



BTW, one of my alt-coins went from $.92 to $1.19 today. Today was a good day.

HughFreakingDillon

unsung said:

As defined by govt not yet. 65m users would argue that.

The blockchain

Some may. Some may or may not accept gold or silver.

It is my belief that a private business should be able to refuse service for any reason at any time but that has been beat to death and will not matter here.



BTW, one of my alt-coins went from $.92 to $1.19 today. Today was a good day.

is it somehow tied to the price of oil? LOL

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

As defined by govt not yet. 65m users would argue that.

The blockchain

Some may. Some may or may not accept gold or silver.

It is my belief that a private business should be able to refuse service for any reason at any time but that has been beat to death and will not matter here.



BTW, one of my alt-coins went from $.92 to $1.19 today. Today was a good day.

is it somehow tied to the price of oil? LOL

Seems about as arbitrary.

CM189191

What does this mean?
The Large Bitcoin Collider Is Generating Trillions of Keys and Breaking Into Wallets: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/the-large-bitcoin-collider-is-generating-trillions-of-keys-and-breaking-into-wallets