We must have a better system to deal with 10c ticket exchanges / refunds

bertanbertan Posts: 251
Let's start with the obvious, we currently don't even have a system for exchanging or cancelling Ten Club tickets. Everything is based on avoidance,  "No refunds, no name transfers, no exchanges, no exceptions." is our current policy, which is just another way of saying "we don't want to deal with this, good luck". 

I put my name down for two pairs of London tickets on December 1st 2017, and got them both. I live in London and I was very pleased, but as you all know life is not very simple, and shitload of stuff happens in 7 months. Come April 2018, and I know that I'll have my wedding on the same week as the gigs, in my home country Turkey. For various annoying reasons, I can't change the date and I can't afford to travel back and forth. So I'm 2 months away from the gigs and I know I can't make them. I send an e-mail to the Ten Club explaining my situation, but all I get is that "I can donate the tickets if I want", nothing more.

This is not a way to deal with a problem, it's simply avoiding the problem. There are a million things that could be done to help someone in a similar situation, but Ten Club just abandons us with the  "No refunds, no name transfers, no exchanges, no exceptions" policy. I look at the forum and see all those ticket requests, and 4 perfectly fine tickets are going to waste. Here are just a few ideas on what could've been done:

- Cancelling my payment and re-selling the tickets through pearljam.com. You can even charge the original buyer a small fee, I'm sure everyone would prefer that to paying the full price and not making it to the gig. 

- Don't wanna deal with reselling tickets? Collaborate with a third-party like twickets.live and let them deal with the transaction. Therefore make sure the tickets are sold for face-value.

- Give people a chance to transfer it to other Ten Club members. You have everyone's information, you can track if someone has already have tickets to that specific gig, that seems like the easiest thing to do. 

- When you do the ticket lottery, also create a waiting list. So when someone backs out of the gig for whatever reason, another person quickly replaces them.

There must be tons of more options to deal with these kind of situations before saying "we can't do anything". Honestly it's just lazy and feels like 10c are not making an effort in general. The really sad part is, if I had purchased these tickets through a vendor like Ticketmaster, I could get a refund or I could resell the tickets through their website. I chose to buy from the official fan club, and I have less rights basically everyone. 

This system is unacceptable, and it's time we change it for better. Any ideas?

Thank you,
Bertan
"hey na na na na hey that's something"

[30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
«134567

Comments

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,931
    edited June 14
    I agree that not being able to transfer tickets to another person somehow - not even a 10C member - is a terrible policy. It's my understanding that 10C tried something like this once, people took advantage somehow, and they scrapped the entire idea forever. IMHO, that is not the way to deal with problems that arise in a new process. It would have been better if they tweaked the system to avoid whatever issues came up. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is never a good solution.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree that not being able to transfer tickets to another person somehow - not even a 10C member - is a terrible policy. It's my understanding that 10C tried something like this once, people took advantage somehow, and they scrapped the entire idea forever. IMHO, that is not the way to deal with problems that arise in a new process. It would have been better if they tweaked the system to avoid whatever issues came up. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is never a good solution.
    I agree. I wonder how people took advantage of it? Passing the ticket to the next one on the waiting list seems like a solid system to me. You won't even know who would get your ticket, there's no financial gain to be made.
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 6,994
    That was a long post, but if I’m understanding correctly you purchased tickets that you knew where nonrefundable and had limited transfers and then you scheduled your wedding for the same week in another country?

    I don’t get how that was a failure by the Ten Club.  My suggestion is to purchase tickets through the general sale next time if you want to hedge your bets and be able to sell the tickets if something comes up. 

    I like the fact that it’s hard to transfer tickets.  It makes people think really hard before they put in for tickets and it prevents people from putting in for tickets that they may never use.  
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 3,436
    Refund from TM?
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 6,994

    bertan said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree that not being able to transfer tickets to another person somehow - not even a 10C member - is a terrible policy. It's my understanding that 10C tried something like this once, people took advantage somehow, and they scrapped the entire idea forever. IMHO, that is not the way to deal with problems that arise in a new process. It would have been better if they tweaked the system to avoid whatever issues came up. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is never a good solution.
    I agree. I wonder how people took advantage of it? Passing the ticket to the next one on the waiting list seems like a solid system to me. You won't even know who would get your ticket, there's no financial gain to be made.
    The ten club is not a huge company with hundreds of employees.  Refunding tickets and then chasing down people on a list to buy them is labor intensive and time consuming.  I think you’re way underestimating the time this would take during a tour. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,931
    edited June 14
    on2legs said:
    That was a long post, but if I’m understanding correctly you purchased tickets that you knew where nonrefundable and had limited transfers and then you scheduled your wedding for the same week in another country?

    I don’t get how that was a failure by the Ten Club.  My suggestion is to purchase tickets through the general sale next time if you want to hedge your bets and be able to sell the tickets if something comes up. 

    I like the fact that it’s hard to transfer tickets.  It makes people think really hard before they put in for tickets and it prevents people from putting in for tickets that they may never use.  
    That last part is a good point. I guess the rule does probably make more tix available to more members. But exceptions should at least be made when stuff does come up. My guess is that maybe the OP didn't know he was even getting married when he bought the tix, or maybe something made it so that the week of the shows ended up being the only time it was possible for the wedding to happen (without big losses or without excluding important guests or something). But whatever the case, sometimes missing the show really is unavoidable (I know someone posted about how their girlfriend got cancer, for example), and at least in verifiable cases I wish 10C would offer a solution other than "you lose your money, we'll take your tix."
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 2,960
    edited June 15
    I'm with the o.p it is not hard at all to transfer tickets to another member. As they have all our details to send newsletter and the such. If there was a cut off point  before tour  begins. And also even a place specifically  for people with spares like "got some" or something cleverly named like "lost dogs" on the main page. There is no way a 10c ticket should be left un used with so many loving the chance to do the whole experience.  Just my own view.  It's a business  after all who do very well. Not some back street dentist.
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • JM12271JM12271 Posts: 97
    edited June 15
    This resonates with the news I received this week from my oncologist. I am looking at my 4th surgery in 18 months, scheduled in July with a 12-16 week recovery period. I scored Reserved for both Wrigley shows and now it looks like my wife and I cannot go. What options are there? I heard I can sell the companion tix, but the whole trip went bust this week with the news from my doctor. I know life happens, but unfortunately cancer is something you cannot really plan for and now I am out the cost for two tix if I sell the two companions - basically $250. Being unemployed for six months, donating them really isn't helpful either. I would love to be connected with a 10C member who didn't score tix that I can sell at face value - two shows at Wrigley with my 143xxx fan club number.  Any insights? Cancer blows.
    *Edited for poor spelling ;) Kent Read, Kent Write, Kent State. (Say it out loud to yourself)
    Post edited by JM12271 on
  • SW88810SW88810 Manchester, EnglandPosts: 25
    I totally understand the op... life does get in the way!! and think rather than moaning about it has offered positive/sane solutions

    I totally understand the rules and accept the terms when I applied for tickets this time around and was looking forward to winning all three shows and attending them.... however after winning all three (a first for me since this system worked only ever got tc tickets this way once before!!) Long story short in the time that has passed I can’t go to the second London show and need to be in Manchester 

    it’s a lot of money to lose and frustrating that I can’t help out a fellow fan... also we only just found out collection details yesterday so been unable to plan or arrange to sell tickets until now

    its frustrating and yeah I know the rules... but sometimes life gets in the way



  • JM12271JM12271 Posts: 97
    SW88810 said:
    I totally understand the op... life does get in the way!! and think rather than moaning about it has offered positive/sane solutions

    I totally understand the rules and accept the terms when I applied for tickets this time around and was looking forward to winning all three shows and attending them.... however after winning all three (a first for me since this system worked only ever got tc tickets this way once before!!) Long story short in the time that has passed I can’t go to the second London show and need to be in Manchester 

    it’s a lot of money to lose and frustrating that I can’t help out a fellow fan... also we only just found out collection details yesterday so been unable to plan or arrange to sell tickets until now

    its frustrating and yeah I know the rules... but sometimes life gets in the way



    Very well said - 'Sometimes life gets in the way'. I can totally empathize. I know 10C is a small outfit and greatly appreciate them and what benefits we experience, but I would love to be able to sell tix at face value to a PJ 10 C Member.

  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    on2legs said:
    That was a long post, but if I’m understanding correctly you purchased tickets that you knew where nonrefundable and had limited transfers and then you scheduled your wedding for the same week in another country?
    Not really. PJ_Soul pretty much explained it but let me make it clear: I bought the tickets when there were no solid plans for a wedding. When I popped the question, I had a date in mind which would allow us to attend the gigs as well. But for various reasons beyond my control, that date wasn't possible and basically the only date available to me was the one on the same week of the gigs.

    Maybe you still feel that isn't a good enough reason, but I'm not the only one dealing with this problem. Surely you can empathize with health problems and family emergencies. Ten Club gives the same answer to all those people: "No refunds, no name transfers, no exchanges, no exceptions". Isn't that a failure by Ten Club?
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    JM12271 said:
    This resonates with the news I received this week from my oncologist. I am looking at my 4th surgery in 18 months, scheduled in July with a 12-16 week recovery period. I scored Reserved for both Wrigley shows and now it looks like my wife and I cannot go. What options are there? I heard I can sell the companion tix, but the whole trip went bust this week with the news from my doctor. I know life happens, but unfortunately cancer is something you cannot really plan for and now I am out the cost for two tix if I sell the two companions - basically $250. Being unemployed for six months, donating them really isn't helpful either. I would love to be connected with a 10C member who didn't score tix that I can sell at face value - two shows at Wrigley with my 143xxx fan club number.  Any insights? Cancer blows.
    *Edited for poor spelling ;) Kent Read, Kent Write, Kent State. (Say it out loud to yourself)
    So sorry to hear that man, I hope everything goes according to plan and you get your health back as soon as possible.

    And thanks to everyone who posted, it's good to see that I'm not the only one thinking that this system needs an update. I guess the question is what can be done, how can we push for a change? 
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 2,960
    edited June 15
    JM12271 said:
    This resonates with the news I received this week from my oncologist. I am looking at my 4th surgery in 18 months, scheduled in July with a 12-16 week recovery period. I scored Reserved for both Wrigley shows and now it looks like my wife and I cannot go. What options are there? I heard I can sell the companion tix, but the whole trip went bust this week with the news from my doctor. I know life happens, but unfortunately cancer is something you cannot really plan for and now I am out the cost for two tix if I sell the two companions - basically $250. Being unemployed for six months, donating them really isn't helpful either. I would love to be connected with a 10C member who didn't score tix that I can sell at face value - two shows at Wrigley with my 143xxx fan club number.  Any insights? Cancer blows.
    *Edited for poor spelling ;) Kent Read, Kent Write, Kent State. (Say it out loud to yourself)
    @tenclub ;  This must be resolved it really should never be this way to people who are already have the hardest time of their life . Make this right!!
    Post edited by lastexitlondon on
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • chimechime Posts: 7,833
    edited June 15
    This could well by Pearl Jam folklore and I'm not saying it is true but the reason I read on here years ago for stopping transfers was people taking advantage.  I think at one time if you could find another 10c member to take your tickets and let 10c know they would do the transfer.  At this time US shows were all seated, no lottery so totally seniority based.

    So two friends one with a low number and one with a high number.  Person with high number gets person with low number to put in for tickets.  Couple of days before the show low number asks 10c to transfer to high number.  As 10c has already put all the tickets in the envelopes ready to hand out person with high number now gets good seats.

    Also I think as mentioned before people putting in for shows they don't know if they can make with transfer as a back up may be meaning someone who could always go missing out on a ticket and also making extra work for 10c.

    EDIT:  *waves* hi Bertan.  Congrats on the upcoming wedding.
    Post edited by chime on
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan MarylandPosts: 9,041
    people would 100% take advantage of the system.  If transferred were allowed, all kinds of people would just put in for shows that they might make 6-8 months down the road. And if not, they just get rid of the tickets.  That would really suck for people that actually wanted to go to a show losing out to those just thinking they might in a few months. 
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,325
    people would 100% take advantage of the system.  If transferred were allowed, all kinds of people would just put in for shows that they might make 6-8 months down the road. And if not, they just get rid of the tickets.  That would really suck for people that actually wanted to go to a show losing out to those just thinking they might in a few months. 
    This is the truth of it.

    People as it is, over-buy on tickets and use their extras to trade for other extras (and Im sure rare merch and cash in secret).  

    10c has even started to attempt to restrict that with their electronic tickets and you can only transfer 1 of them policy.  

    Im sure there are many things where life gets in the way, sickness, injury, travel complications, etc.... but if the barn doors were thrown open, for every "real" issue, we would have 100 people further leveraging the system to ensure them the best tickets to as many shows as they can stomach
  • jpdannabellejpdannabelle Posts: 510
    edited June 15
    I just posted yesterday about wasted tickets this tour. The rules were laid out clear so you can’t really be upset at 10c. This 1 transferable ticket only rule was a way to keep the tickets in members hands and not allow them to be sold on the secondary market.  It works, as flippers can’t sell a pair, but it is unfortunate for the ones who can not attend due to unforeseen circumstances. They’ll be out some money as they can’t sell both tickets even at face value. It’s a tough one. But I don’t think you can blame 10c for not refunding/exchanging/transfering tickets. It would be never ending. Tickets might change hands 10 times before someone actually goes. They couldn’t deal with all that. There isn’t a ticket company in the world that would refund or exchange tickets. Planning anything 7-8 months ahead is hard. You never know what can happen. My thoughts are with those who can’t attend because of health reasons or other unfortunate circumstances. I pray everything works out for you. 
    Post edited by jpdannabelle on
  • IndifferenceIndifference Posts: 2,277
    edited June 15

    At least with the move to electronic tiks can get rid of 1.  As far as the policy thank your fellow 10c members for abusing the system over the years.

    (116) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010's=59, US=82, CAN=13, Europe=15 ,New Zealand=2, Australia=2
    Mexico=1, Colombia=1  Up next:  Seattle x2, Missoula, Fenway x2

  • jpdannabellejpdannabelle Posts: 510

    At least with the move to electronic tiks can get rid of 1.  As far as the policy thank your fellow 10c members for abusing the system over the years.

    Yup. There are single “mobile” GA tickets on stubhub as we speak, so some are still trying to score big on the one ticket. 
  • PJ-CubsPJ-Cubs Posts: 3,050

    At least with the move to electronic tiks can get rid of 1.  As far as the policy thank your fellow 10c members for abusing the system over the years.

    Exactly - the 10C is trying to be flexible by allowing people to sell one of their tickets but they are also keeping controls in place that helps prevent people from abusing the system.  Could you imaging how hard it would be to get tickets if people were allowed to sell both mobile tickets?

    All of the rules were clearly communicated prior to the lottery so everyone should have known what they are signing up for.
  • ZodZod Posts: 5,615
    edited June 15
    I feel the opposite.   I've been going to concerts for over 20 years (hundreds of them) and I can only think of 2 or 3 that I couldn't make (and had to eat or sell the tickets).   It hasn't been that bad.   

    I'm pretty sure the 10c stopped doing the "email us and we'll transfer them to another member" thing because 10c'ers were abusing it, to get around ticket limits, seniority, priority etc....  The same with the single transferable ticket this summer.   Keep fans from buying multiple pairs to trade with other people (Who probably already have tickets to other shows, this circumventing the drawing preferences).

    It seems to me that these policies make it easier for me to get tickets by preventing abuse by other 10c members and they help keep tickets out of the hands of scalpers.    I think it's a fair trade off.

  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 134,988
    The system is  just fine as it is
    We all know what will happen if 10c allows transfers or sales. We have enough flippers and cheaters at merch. We don't need the same crap with 10c tix
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,325
    Ticket raffles!
  • madtowndavemadtowndave Minneapolis, MNPosts: 3,788
    The no exceptions policy keeps Ten Club out of the position of judging who has a valid reason. Can you imagine the uproar if one person was allowed to exchange, but another individual's reason was deemed invalid? 
    Nashville-00
    Nashville-03
    Chicago-07
    E.V. Milwaukee-08
    Chicago 1 & 2-09
    Alpine Valley 1 & 2-11
    Wrigley-13
    St. Paul-14
    Milwaukee-14
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 7,051

    positive thoughts to everyone going thru some tough times.

    but this policy is really the only way to do it. Too many people would abuse the exchange system.

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
    1995- New Orleans, LA
    1996- Charleston, SC
    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
    2006- Cincinnati, OH
    2008- Columbia, SC
    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Ved- Atlanta, GA x 2
    2010- Bristow, VA
    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Ved- Chicago, IL
    2012- Atlanta, GA
    2013- Charlotte, NC
    2014- Cincinnati, OH
    2015- New York, NY
    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA: Raleigh, NC: Columbia, SC: Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA

    2017- Ed Ved- Louisville, KY

  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,147
    on2legs said:
    That was a long post, but if I’m understanding correctly you purchased tickets that you knew where nonrefundable and had limited transfers and then you scheduled your wedding for the same week in another country?

    I don’t get how that was a failure by the Ten Club.  My suggestion is to purchase tickets through the general sale next time if you want to hedge your bets and be able to sell the tickets if something comes up. 

    I like the fact that it’s hard to transfer tickets.  It makes people think really hard before they put in for tickets and it prevents people from putting in for tickets that they may never use.  
    Yeah....agreed
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,147
    I'm with the o.p it is not hard at all to transfer tickets to another member. As they have all our details to send newsletter and the such. If there was a cut off point  before tour  begins. And also even a place specifically  for people with spares like "got some" or something cleverly named like "lost dogs" on the main page. There is no way a 10c ticket should be left un used with so many loving the chance to do the whole experience.  Just my own view.  It's a business  after all who do very well. Not some back street dentist.
    Right and then this creates a whole behind the scenes market for 10c tix.  Why not get as many as you can, sell them to another member and have 10c use their transfer policy to get it to them?

    That's why they very clearly sell them as is, no refunds, no take backs...couldn't be clearer
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 12,768
    lolobugg said:

    positive thoughts to everyone going thru some tough times.

    but this policy is really the only way to do it. Too many people would abuse the exchange system.

    This.
    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
    It is sad that some cannot make it but the way the general person behaves necessitates such a system
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • RP112579RP112579 Tinley Park, ILPosts: 2,495
    MayDay10 said:
    Ticket raffles!
    People did try to raffle non 10c tickets
    6/29/98 Chicago-United Center
    6/18/03 Chicago-United Center
    5/17/06 Chicago-United Center
    7/19/13 Chicago-Wrigley Field
    10/11/13 Pittsburgh-Consol Energy Center
    10/17/14 Moline-IWireless Center (No Code)
    10/20/14 Milwaukee-Bradley center (Yield)
    4/26/16 Lexington-Rupp Arena
    8/20/16 Chicago-Wrigley Field
    8/22/16 Chicago-Wrigley Field
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 11,505
    lolobugg said:

    positive thoughts to everyone going thru some tough times.

    but this policy is really the only way to do it. Too many people would abuse the exchange system.

    This.
    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
    It is sad that some cannot make it but the way the general person behaves necessitates such a system
    My man, since when do you invoke logic?
    I SAW PEARL JAM
«134567
Sign In or Register to comment.