Western media lies about Syria exposed (Canadian journalist Eva Bartlett)

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,953
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 514
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    More bombs and wars are not the solution ... maybe America should mine its own business, doesn't the us have enough problems of its own...maybe take some of that war money and provide health care for her citizens...

  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 6,623
    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.



    I agree with you, Polaris.

    based on what my good friend who has relatives in the region has told me.

    This is a smokescreen to gain control of Syria by the US government 

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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    More bombs and wars are not the solution ... maybe America should mine its own business, doesn't the us have enough problems of its own...maybe take some of that war money and provide health care for her citizens...

    America's economy is dependent on war profiteering and gaining access to other countries resources.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    check out Ron Paul's twitter feed for more on Syria ...

    https://twitter.com/RonPaul

  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 2,134
    This is a very good thread for me
      Learning lots here. That i did not know. 
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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    lolobugg said:
    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.



    I agree with you, Polaris.

    based on what my good friend who has relatives in the region has told me.

    This is a smokescreen to gain control of Syria by the US government 

    The scary part for me is - it's the same playbook over and over again.  Yet, people still keep eating this stuff up!  It's like at no point is there any learning. 
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 6,623
    edited April 11
    polaris_x said:
    lolobugg said:
    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.



    I agree with you, Polaris.

    based on what my good friend who has relatives in the region has told me.

    This is a smokescreen to gain control of Syria by the US government 

    The scary part for me is - it's the same playbook over and over again.  Yet, people still keep eating this stuff up!  It's like at no point is there any learning. 

    Yep. anytime there is a call to bomb somewhere... just look around and you will find it to be a reason to get the public's eyes off of some scandal or for a purpose other than what they are telling us......  so obvious to me at this point. thanks for sharing the videos. It takes alternate media to educate us Americans. we are so trained to go for the dog whistle of corporate media.
    Post edited by lolobugg on

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,953
    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.


    So as i see it America needs to get the hell out of the Middle east , i have no problem with that let them figure out & build their countries back up and we should fund the countries we've distabilized to pay them back ..I can't look at any videos here at work but i will when i get home ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 514
    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    More bombs and wars are not the solution ... maybe America should mine its own business, doesn't the us have enough problems of its own...maybe take some of that war money and provide health care for her citizens...

    America's economy is dependent on war profiteering and gaining access to other countries resources.
    Agreed...


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 514

    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.


    So as i see it America needs to get the hell out of the Middle east , i have no problem with that let them figure out & build their countries back up and we should fund the countries we've distabilized to pay them back ..I can't look at any videos here at work but i will when i get home ...
    I agree you should fund those rebuilding efforts, and it should come mostly from American tax dollars...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    polaris_x said:
    polaris_x said:
    Heck i say let them all fight their own battles starting with Israel , i don't want any Americans dying over other countries problems but at the same time the world can't just stand by and watch women&children being gassed to death someone will have to stand up for them no ?
    America is not in the middle east as saviours of innocent people.  They are there forging their own economic and military interests.  They are the cause of the problems there - not the solution.
    Ok you have all the answers tell us what you believe the world should do to fix that nightmare region i'm all ears ...
    First you have to define the problem.  What do you think is the problem?  Do you think the rise of extremists groups such as ISIS, Al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda and the likes is a problem?

    If so, you have to ask yourself how it came to be that these factions have gained territory all through the middle east?  Countries bombed incessantly and then left to pick up the pieces.  Look at Iraq (again, still no WMD's) - it's all gone to shit because just like Iran before, Central America, South America and SE Asia - America has economic interests and are prepared to do what they want.

    Check out the video I posted about the Whistleblowers.  These real heroes - provided documented proof of the true agenda American interests have in the Middle East.  These people knew it was immoral and did something about it.  The same people see the same thing happening in Syria as it has happened all over the world.


    So as i see it America needs to get the hell out of the Middle east , i have no problem with that let them figure out & build their countries back up and we should fund the countries we've distabilized to pay them back ..I can't look at any videos here at work but i will when i get home ...
    Absolutely ...

    At the heart of it is this for the US.  How much do you trust Corporations to determine what is best for the people?  Right now, Corporations dictate almost all relevant public policy from Food Standards to Foreign Policy.  What is happening in Syria and Libya is a function of a country that allows Corporations to determine the National agenda.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    from Andrew Ashdown's blog - Anglican Priest who has visited Syria many times through invitation from other Church organizations to witness what is really happening in Syria ...

    We must not forget the place of women in society. Women in Syria have enjoyed more freedom of rights in Syria for many years, than almost in any other Arab country. One woman we met whilst walking freely in the streets spoke for many: "You've walked the streets and seen the women. We have total freedom to dress the way we want, to eat what we want and to get appropriate education and medical care. We choose our own way of life. The situation for women in Syria is perfectly good and was before the crisis. Now in areas controlled by Daesh and other groups, women are really suffering: they are not allowed to get education or practice their rights under the control of the extremist mentality. If the regime changed in Syria and these extremists took control of everything, just imagine how miserable life would be for us women. We won't even be able to walk in the street without a male accompanying us. Females will be forced to stay at home. We can't imagine that."

    Most Damascenes (indeed most Syrians) have no wish to see regime change because the alternative is likely to be too awful to contemplate. They do wish to see reform though and yearn for the international community to stop supporting extremist people of violence and to work with the Government to defeat terrorism, and bring about peace and reform. Damascus was and is one of the most beautiful, diverse and tolerant cities in the Middle East. It is also the oldest continuously inhabited city on earth. The people deserve for their voices to be heard. It is unconscionable that those of us who seek to listen and to enable those voices to be heard, are criticised for doing so. This surely raises serious questions about the agendas behind Western policies towards the conflict and the suffering people of Syria.
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,873
    Still waiting to hear who you think is responsible for the chemical attack Polaris?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    peeps should read his entire blog entry ... but some more excerpts for the lazy or time constrained ...

    Our meeting with the President was a courteous, frank, open debate. He made it absolutely clear that we could ask anything we liked, and we confronted him with all the main issues of which he is accused. His answers were clear, helpful, and challenging. He did not just dismiss things but acknowledged mistakes. And he was also very clear on his vision for a plural, peaceful, diverse Syria; the importance of the fight against terrorism; and the importance of political reform which could only come when there is peace.

    Moreover, is it not utter hypocrisy, that we who happily ally with brutal dictators and war criminals, (including supporters and funders of Daesh) when it suits our 'national' or 'economic' interests; who have been complicit in the destruction of numerous countries; and whose weapons have killed, and are killing, millions of innocent people around the world; dare to demonise one man, whilst supporting terrorists?


  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    his and his convoy's conclusions
    CONCLUSIONS

    What are our main findings?



    1. The resilience and perseverance of the Syrian people enduring sustained and intense suffering.

    2. The widespread existence of many initiatives by Government and local communities to address problems of war and poverty (e.g. Government and churches' initiatives to support IDPs and the provision of free health care).

    3. Many Reconciliation initiatives at local and Government levels with that have positive outcomes for whole communities - for example, in enabling cease fires. The Minister for Reconciliation told us that there are Reconciliation initiatives in 70 cities, towns and villages involving 4.5 million citizens.

    4. The devastating impact for all Syrian people of sanctions and the massive destruction and theft of the industrial infrastructure by armed groups.

    5. The group has heard the consistent cry of Christians and Muslims for their places of worship to be respected and preserved and for a sympathetic response and engagement from their counterparts in the West.

    6. The consistently positive working relations between Christians and Muslims in Government controlled areas in Syria.

    7. Important and significant people with genuine voices of peace and reform are being prevented from visiting the UK and engaging with the British government and people.

    8. The coverage by some media of the situation in Syria is not an accurate representation of many of the realities we have observed. ((For example, see the post on the Doctors Council in Aleppo).

    9. The acute polarisation inherent in protracted war has all but destroyed the existing movement to implement greater democracy within the country. The majority of the city's population are profoundly impacted by the refusal of the international community to engage with Government-held areas of the city.

    10. Many media narratives in the UK are refuted and disputed by the vast majority of people whom we have met.

    11. Many people whom we met believe that the partisanship of many Western media narratives with the exclusion of most moderate voices will lead to the destruction of civil society and its replacement by violence, terrorism and another failed State as well as increased terrorism in other countries, including the UK.

    12. Widespread concern was strongly conveyed over the UK's military support for Opposition forces which we are repeatedly told are not ' Moderate' but virtually indistinguishable from those fighting for the ideologies of ISIS and Al Nusra.

    13. People are deeply concerned that the fundamental principle of End User Accountability is not being applied to all military support by the UK with disastrous results.

    14. Without exception, every person we met believes that current UK and international policies of commitment to ‘Regime Change’ will destroy the pluralistic and diverse society which has existed for hundreds of years. They also passionately believe that Syrians should have the right to determine their own future and elect their own leadership.

    15. While almost all media coverage in the West focuses on the devastating effects of military offensives by Government forces, in just one day during our visit (September 5th) the following attacks by the armed Opposition inflicting indiscriminate death and injury included:

    Four car bombs at Homs with 12 killed and 30 injured; in Tartus 45 killed and 100 wounded; in the Damascus countryside, 3 killed and 12 wounded; in Hasaka, 6 killed and 20 wounded.

    This is only a part of the daily toll of death and injury inflicted by Opposition forces on civilians, such as the shelling of the University in Aleppo by 4 missiles on the day we were there.

    Already, we have been accused of spouting 'government propaganda'.  No. We travelled to Syria to listen to the voices of Syrian people and we have met hundreds from across the respective communities in the country. Personally, this is my fifth visit to the country since April 2014, and the messages remain consistent and widespread. What we are sharing is not 'government propaganda' at all, but the voices of ordinary Syrians. Anyone who thinks otherwise is showing their ignorance!

    I would repeat the cry of most Syrians we have met. Come and visit us and see the reality for yourselves. I have seriously wondered whether the enormous pressure put upon us by both government and Church figures NOT to visit Syria, is precisely because they do not want us to see and hear the truth, simply because it does not ally with the deliberate misrepresentation the international community is conveying to achieve their own agendas.

    I hope and pray that any ceasefire leads to a true and lasting peace. I also hope and pray that the international community will adjust their policies to consider the real needs and wishes of the Syrian people, and that we do not use the 'provision of aid' as a means of rearming militant factions to further prolong the war. The goal of everyone should be the restoration of peace; the rebuilding of the country; the respect of plurality and development of reform; and the reconciliation and healing of souls, which will be the most difficult task. Enough of fuelling war. Let us end the policy of violence, and truly seek the path of peace, and listen first to the voices of the people themselves.



                                    



  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 13,736
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 12,312
    If Syria, Russia and Iran are not responsible for the alleged poison gas attack, why not invite and give safe passage to UN chemical weapons inspectors and unfettered access to the sites and victims?
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 11,938
    my2hands said:
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
    Well...there is some oil there but not as much as some other places. I think it has more to do with the military/industrial side than it does any resources there for the taking. Every bomb that gets dropped is a bomb that will be bought again. Every bullet fired, every tank destroyed, etc. And then when the country is completely ruined some politically-connected contractors will come in and "rebuild" while others provide "security."

    $$$
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 13,736
    And trust me, I'm no apologist for Americam foreign policy and am well aware of our wrongdoings... I personally think Bush & Cheney should have been tried as war criminals... I also understand false flag attacks are very real and do happen... and that there are evil fucks in the world... 

    But to paint Assad as a great man and some savior of the people seems pretty far out to me... free healthcare and education dont mean shit... Cuba, Venezuela, Cambodia, Soviet Union, even Nazi Germany provided those things I believe... I'm a big fan of universal healthcare and education, but it's far from proof that a leader is moral or great in any way

    If America wanted in the door all the way, we would have done it after the famous red line crossing under Obama... unless Obama was as great a leader as I suspect and realized the trap being laid by the "deep state" and resisted 

    Also, why would we ever leave Iraq & Afghanistan if the goal was regional hegemony at all costs? A false flag attack or two would have easily kept forces there forever... or again, maybe Obama was that great of a leader?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 13,736
    JimmyV said:
    my2hands said:
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
    Well...there is some oil there but not as much as some other places. I think it has more to do with the military/industrial side than it does any resources there for the taking. Every bomb that gets dropped is a bomb that will be bought again. Every bullet fired, every tank destroyed, etc. And then when the country is completely ruined some politically-connected contractors will come in and "rebuild" while others provide "security."

    $$$

    Oh trust me, I understand, but that seems that would apply more to Russia here since we aren't on the ground and only fired a few rockets... Russia is the one on the ground... this isn't shock & awe and nation building... from what I recall this is exactly why under the Obama administration we resisted taking any further action
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 39,547
    edited April 12
    my2hands said:
    JimmyV said:
    my2hands said:
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
    Well...there is some oil there but not as much as some other places. I think it has more to do with the military/industrial side than it does any resources there for the taking. Every bomb that gets dropped is a bomb that will be bought again. Every bullet fired, every tank destroyed, etc. And then when the country is completely ruined some politically-connected contractors will come in and "rebuild" while others provide "security."

    $$$

    Oh trust me, I understand, but that seems that would apply more to Russia here since we aren't on the ground and only fired a few rockets... Russia is the one on the ground... this isn't shock & awe and nation building... from what I recall this is exactly why under the Obama administration we resisted taking any further action
    It's a huge interest for Russia - geographic strategy to expansion. Putin is still a Soviet Union guy remember. What my2hands says is true, but I've been under the impression that the most important thing is to just try and keep it out of total Russian control.... But that is now confusing, given Trump's schizophrenic attitude about Russia.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 12,312
    JimmyV said:
    my2hands said:
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
    Well...there is some oil there but not as much as some other places. I think it has more to do with the military/industrial side than it does any resources there for the taking. Every bomb that gets dropped is a bomb that will be bought again. Every bullet fired, every tank destroyed, etc. And then when the country is completely ruined some politically-connected contractors will come in and "rebuild" while others provide "security."

    $$$
    Who is the greatest beneficiary of a destabilized and destroyed Syria? Hint: they want the Golan Heights forever. And who’s doing their bidding and who didn’t and resisted. Hmmmmmm.
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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    If Syria, Russia and Iran are not responsible for the alleged poison gas attack, why not invite and give safe passage to UN chemical weapons inspectors and unfettered access to the sites and victims?
    They have.  The Syrian ambassador at the UN asked for the OPCW to come right away.  The

    You gotta ask yourself seriously why would Syria want to gas their own people!??  They are fighting terrorists.  Also, why is it that every time Trump or America says they are pulling out of Syria - there is an alleged chemical attack. Please note - all the previous attacks have been debunked many times over.  The only consequence of gassing their own people is international involvement.  It makes no sense whatsoever!
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 12,312
    polaris_x said:
    If Syria, Russia and Iran are not responsible for the alleged poison gas attack, why not invite and give safe passage to UN chemical weapons inspectors and unfettered access to the sites and victims?
    They have.  The Syrian ambassador at the UN asked for the OPCW to come right away.  The

    You gotta ask yourself seriously why would Syria want to gas their own people!??  They are fighting terrorists.  Also, why is it that every time Trump or America says they are pulling out of Syria - there is an alleged chemical attack. Please note - all the previous attacks have been debunked many times over.  The only consequence of gassing their own people is international involvement.  It makes no sense whatsoever!
    That’s not the reporting I’ve read. The Syrians and Russians won’t allow independent media or chemical weapons inspectors into the affected area.
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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    my2hands said:
    And trust me, I'm no apologist for Americam foreign policy and am well aware of our wrongdoings... I personally think Bush & Cheney should have been tried as war criminals... I also understand false flag attacks are very real and do happen... and that there are evil fucks in the world... 

    But to paint Assad as a great man and some savior of the people seems pretty far out to me... free healthcare and education dont mean shit... Cuba, Venezuela, Cambodia, Soviet Union, even Nazi Germany provided those things I believe... I'm a big fan of universal healthcare and education, but it's far from proof that a leader is moral or great in any way

    If America wanted in the door all the way, we would have done it after the famous red line crossing under Obama... unless Obama was as great a leader as I suspect and realized the trap being laid by the "deep state" and resisted 

    Also, why would we ever leave Iraq & Afghanistan if the goal was regional hegemony at all costs? A false flag attack or two would have easily kept forces there forever... or again, maybe Obama was that great of a leader?
    Dude ...  read the stuff I posted.  Assad has strong support.  It's a misinformation campaign so that the general public will be ok bombing these places.  This guy drives his own car around the city and walks around in public.  Brutal dictators don't do that.  Ken Roth of Human Rights Watch is a constant purveyor of lies - he was caught posting pictures of Gaza and claiming they were assad's barrel bombs.  HE did that twice!!  Please read the blog post I posted above - Assad has overwhelming support.

    Obama knew the information coming out of Syria was a lie and that is why he didn't engage. 

    For whoever asked why Syria - there are pipelines and then the military position as it relates to proximity to Iran. 
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    PJ_Soul said:
    my2hands said:
    JimmyV said:
    my2hands said:
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
    Well...there is some oil there but not as much as some other places. I think it has more to do with the military/industrial side than it does any resources there for the taking. Every bomb that gets dropped is a bomb that will be bought again. Every bullet fired, every tank destroyed, etc. And then when the country is completely ruined some politically-connected contractors will come in and "rebuild" while others provide "security."

    $$$

    Oh trust me, I understand, but that seems that would apply more to Russia here since we aren't on the ground and only fired a few rockets... Russia is the one on the ground... this isn't shock & awe and nation building... from what I recall this is exactly why under the Obama administration we resisted taking any further action
    It's a huge interest for Russia - geographic strategy to expansion. Putin is still a Soviet Union guy remember. What my2hands says is true, but I've been under the impression that the most important thing is to just try and keep it out of total Russian control.... But that is now confusing, given Trump's schizophrenic attitude about Russia.
    Russia would not be in Syria if not for the US.  The US is the one supplying arms to ISIS and Jihadist groups.  They are the ones destabilizing the country - not Russia.  It's the same playbook as Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.  Remember - still no WMDs.  All those countries are overrun by Jihadist groups that are supported by Western Interests.  Russia is not an imperialistic nation - they aren't run by Corporations looking for resources from other countries.  Sure, Russia needs trading partners and there is economic benefit by having good relations but they aren't arming extremists groups to destabilize a country.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,523
    JimmyV said:
    my2hands said:
    What does the US have to gain from "taking control" of Syria?
    Well...there is some oil there but not as much as some other places. I think it has more to do with the military/industrial side than it does any resources there for the taking. Every bomb that gets dropped is a bomb that will be bought again. Every bullet fired, every tank destroyed, etc. And then when the country is completely ruined some politically-connected contractors will come in and "rebuild" while others provide "security."

    $$$
    Who is the greatest beneficiary of a destabilized and destroyed Syria? Hint: they want the Golan Heights forever. And who’s doing their bidding and who didn’t and resisted. Hmmmmmm.
    There is Turkey as well.  When Aleppo was originally seized - all the manufacturing equipment was put on a truck and sent to Turkey.  Looted.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 13,736
    polaris_x said:
    my2hands said:
    And trust me, I'm no apologist for Americam foreign policy and am well aware of our wrongdoings... I personally think Bush & Cheney should have been tried as war criminals... I also understand false flag attacks are very real and do happen... and that there are evil fucks in the world... 

    But to paint Assad as a great man and some savior of the people seems pretty far out to me... free healthcare and education dont mean shit... Cuba, Venezuela, Cambodia, Soviet Union, even Nazi Germany provided those things I believe... I'm a big fan of universal healthcare and education, but it's far from proof that a leader is moral or great in any way

    If America wanted in the door all the way, we would have done it after the famous red line crossing under Obama... unless Obama was as great a leader as I suspect and realized the trap being laid by the "deep state" and resisted 

    Also, why would we ever leave Iraq & Afghanistan if the goal was regional hegemony at all costs? A false flag attack or two would have easily kept forces there forever... or again, maybe Obama was that great of a leader?
    Dude ...  read the stuff I posted.  Assad has strong support.  It's a misinformation campaign so that the general public will be ok bombing these places.  This guy drives his own car around the city and walks around in public.  Brutal dictators don't do that.  Ken Roth of Human Rights Watch is a constant purveyor of lies - he was caught posting pictures of Gaza and claiming they were assad's barrel bombs.  HE did that twice!!  Please read the blog post I posted above - Assad has overwhelming support.

    Obama knew the information coming out of Syria was a lie and that is why he didn't engage. 

    For whoever asked why Syria - there are pipelines and then the military position as it relates to proximity to Iran. 
    Bad leaders have enjoyed strong support in the past, and currently (speaking as an American that witnessed the reelection of W and the election of Trump)... Putin has an 80% approval rating... you keep saying he drives around and walks in public, that proves nothing... where do you get that info? You hanging at the coffee shop in Damascus? lol... maybe what you read about support and driving around is planted propaganda? that works both ways you know?

    All the other atrocities, invading cities, and targeting citizens have all been false flag events?

    Assad is really the good guy just fighting evil terrorists??? That's what your selling
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