The Ocean. Fishing & Whaling. Sustainable? Illegal? Over fished?

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Comments

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    Ketchikan sounds like a nice place except for the 153" of rain they get a year ... yikes ... I'll pass.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    Ketchikan sounds like a nice place except for the 153" of rain they get a year ... yikes ... I'll pass.
    Rain, I love it!



    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    I'll pass.  I like the climate where I live for the most part.  Long summers and short winters are fine by me...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    I agree the whales should be off limits except for the indeginous population..
    Except you forget one thing.  This is NOT your land ... the indigenous people should not need your approval ... hate to breakout it to you, sustenance hunters are not the problem...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    I agree the whales should be off limits except for the indeginous population..
    Except you forget one thing.  This is NOT your land ... the indigenous people should not need your approval ... hate to breakout it to you, sustenance hunters are not the problem...
    Show me a land whale!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    Ask yourself this question:  If the oceans are not over-fished, why are fishermen and women having to go further and further out to sea?  That is how Salvador Alverenga ended up stranded in the Pacific ocean for 438 day (the story of which is told in Jonathan Franklin's excellent book 438 Days).  It is why Raul Gomez spends longer time at sea catching smaller tuna (that story is here:  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/23/they-are-taking-out-a-generation-of-tuna-overfishing-causes-crisis-in-philippines

    The evidence is plain to see.  The ocean are being over-fished.  I don't know why anyone would argue they are not. 

    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    brianlux said:
    I agree the whales should be off limits except for the indeginous population..
    Except you forget one thing.  This is NOT your land ... the indigenous people should not need your approval ... hate to breakout it to you, sustenance hunters are not the problem...
    Show me a land whale!
    Oh for fucks sakes ... do you think their jumping in their fishing boats  and are heading hundreds of miles off coast ... they are fishing and whaling in their usual fishing and whaling grounds their ancestors fished and hunted for whales ... you have no say over indigenous people .... and you shouldn’t .... I can safely say First Nations people in Canada would gladly tell you where to go if you think you can trample on their hunting and fishing rights...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    brianlux said:
    I agree the whales should be off limits except for the indeginous population..
    Except you forget one thing.  This is NOT your land ... the indigenous people should not need your approval ... hate to breakout it to you, sustenance hunters are not the problem...
    Show me a land whale!
    Oh for fucks sakes ... do you think their jumping in their fishing boats  and are heading hundreds of miles off coast ... they are fishing and whaling in their usual fishing and whaling grounds their ancestors fished and hunted for whales ... you have no say over indigenous people .... and you shouldn’t .... I can safely say First Nations people in Canada would gladly tell you where to go if you think you can trample on their hunting and fishing rights...
    Actually, being on the side of the whales, I do have a say.  You can disagree with it, fine, but it's how I see it and how I call it. 

    And I've stood up for Native people many a time in these forums- more than most- but this is one time I don't agree with a certain practice.  If anyone tell me "where to go" that's a reflection on their close minded thinking. But dig this,  I think a lot of natives would agree with me.  I'd bet on it.
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684


    LMFAO...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684



    LMFAO....
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    Concerns grow about grey water in Canada's Arctic, as reports shows it could double by 2035https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/concerns-grow-about-grey-water-in-canadas-arctic-report-shows-it-could-double

    The report noted that could have repercussions for food security in northern communities — a conclusion that only adds to Lennie’s concerns.

    Someone needs to tell Lennie that the self righteous pearl jam fans don't care about your food security.  Get to your Wal Mart...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684


    A rare blue lobster...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684

    I do not know if that lobster was dinner or went back into the ocean ....
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 14,931
    brianlux said:
    Ask yourself this question:  If the oceans are not over-fished, why are fishermen and women having to go further and further out to sea?  That is how Salvador Alverenga ended up stranded in the Pacific ocean for 438 day (the story of which is told in Jonathan Franklin's excellent book 438 Days).  It is why Raul Gomez spends longer time at sea catching smaller tuna (that story is here:  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/23/they-are-taking-out-a-generation-of-tuna-overfishing-causes-crisis-in-philippines

    The evidence is plain to see.  The ocean are being over-fished.  I don't know why anyone would argue they are not. 

    In some areas they are overfished, absolutely.  More regulations need to be put in place to stop this.

    Where is the wild Atlantic cod?  Gone.  Pretty much fished out.  Same with Atlantic salmon.

    Tuna is on the verge of becoming endangered.  You should see how they catch them in foreign countries with no rules on fishing.

    Here on the east coast we used to have flounder in the bays but they are gone now.  The Fluke should be next to go.

    Good ol Alaska is doing it right though.  Other countries need to take note.




  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    brianlux said:
    Ask yourself this question:  If the oceans are not over-fished, why are fishermen and women having to go further and further out to sea?  That is how Salvador Alverenga ended up stranded in the Pacific ocean for 438 day (the story of which is told in Jonathan Franklin's excellent book 438 Days).  It is why Raul Gomez spends longer time at sea catching smaller tuna (that story is here:  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/23/they-are-taking-out-a-generation-of-tuna-overfishing-causes-crisis-in-philippines

    The evidence is plain to see.  The ocean are being over-fished.  I don't know why anyone would argue they are not. 

    In some areas they are overfished, absolutely.  More regulations need to be put in place to stop this.

    Where is the wild Atlantic cod?  Gone.  Pretty much fished out.  Same with Atlantic salmon.

    Tuna is on the verge of becoming endangered.  You should see how they catch them in foreign countries with no rules on fishing.

    Here on the east coast we used to have flounder in the bays but they are gone now.  The Fluke should be next to go.

    Good ol Alaska is doing it right though.  Other countries need to take note.




    I hope so but I'll still boycott all seafood for life. 

    I had an intense conversation about all this this afternoon.  It's troubling to think about ocean-related subjects, overwhelming even, at times.

    At night, I drink myself to sleep
    And pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
    'cause it's so much easier to handle
    All my problems if I'm too far out to sea

    -R.E.M., "Don't Go Back to Rockville"
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,289
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,515
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I agree the whales should be off limits except for the indeginous population..
    Except you forget one thing.  This is NOT your land ... the indigenous people should not need your approval ... hate to breakout it to you, sustenance hunters are not the problem...
    Show me a land whale!
    Oh for fucks sakes ... do you think their jumping in their fishing boats  and are heading hundreds of miles off coast ... they are fishing and whaling in their usual fishing and whaling grounds their ancestors fished and hunted for whales ... you have no say over indigenous people .... and you shouldn’t .... I can safely say First Nations people in Canada would gladly tell you where to go if you think you can trample on their hunting and fishing rights...
    Actually, being on the side of the whales, I do have a say.  You can disagree with it, fine, but it's how I see it and how I call it. 

    And I've stood up for Native people many a time in these forums- more than most- but this is one time I don't agree with a certain practice.  If anyone tell me "where to go" that's a reflection on their close minded thinking. But dig this,  I think a lot of natives would agree with me.  I'd bet on it.
    I agree. I think if you're talking land, that's one thing. But First Nations people don't own the whales any more than any of us do. I say protection of the whales comes before everyone, including First Nations.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,629
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Besides my step-daughter, I've gotten to know two couples who have lived and worked in Alaska and met and talked to a few others and the strong sense I get is  that the southern archipelago of Alaska/ Canada and some of the interior areas of both Alaska and Canada as well are very livable already and will become both more so with warming and more populated with migration of people from the south. 

    I'm very concerned that the last places that are the least damaged are primed to be inundated and ruined rather quickly. It's happened all over the world for some time and I've seen it happen relentlessly here in the west since mid 1900's (it really started here in the west in the 1800's).
    Go spend a winter in Alaska or the north of Canada??  Let me know how you make out?
    Actually, I'm planning on it- hopefully next year (I'm still a working old fool).  I think I would like it.  I've already spent winters near the Canadian border.  No problemo! 

    I like holing up.  It's 12:55 in the AM where I am.  Dark, quiet, alone.  Perfect.

    Those who am close to who have spent winters up there have had not complaints.

    I also know people who would not like it at all.  I would never advise those people to move there.  In fact, the fewer who do the better. 

    But lets follow that stats over however long we do this and see what happens.
    You won't like it Brian.

    Too little sun, dark all the time, rainy and or snow all the time, weather changes on the hour.

    I worked there while I was living in SOCAL and hated the weather there and in Seattle.
    I was going to say.....sounds like the perfect storm for the next great musical movement. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I agree the whales should be off limits except for the indeginous population..
    Except you forget one thing.  This is NOT your land ... the indigenous people should not need your approval ... hate to breakout it to you, sustenance hunters are not the problem...
    Show me a land whale!
    Oh for fucks sakes ... do you think their jumping in their fishing boats  and are heading hundreds of miles off coast ... they are fishing and whaling in their usual fishing and whaling grounds their ancestors fished and hunted for whales ... you have no say over indigenous people .... and you shouldn’t .... I can safely say First Nations people in Canada would gladly tell you where to go if you think you can trample on their hunting and fishing rights...
    Actually, being on the side of the whales, I do have a say.  You can disagree with it, fine, but it's how I see it and how I call it. 

    And I've stood up for Native people many a time in these forums- more than most- but this is one time I don't agree with a certain practice.  If anyone tell me "where to go" that's a reflection on their close minded thinking. But dig this,  I think a lot of natives would agree with me.  I'd bet on it.
    I agree. I think if you're talking land, that's one thing. But First Nations people don't own the whales any more than any of us do. I say protection of the whales comes before everyone, including First Nations.
    Exactly.  Saying it's OK to hunt whales would be like saying some of the petrels (a seabird) should be fair game because they fly over your homeland island where your ancestors used to kill them.  It makes no sense.
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    Where has anyone said First Nation people's own the whales?  These forums need a DRAMA zone.  It is there treaty rights, not that treaty rights mean anything to you descendants of European conquerors...
  • Where has anyone said First Nation people's own the whales?  These forums need a DRAMA zone.  It is there treaty rights, not that treaty rights mean anything to you descendants of European conquerors...
    Why don't you lead by example and leave your cozy little spot on occupied land and return to your ancestors' origin?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 3,696
    Where has anyone said First Nation people's own the whales?  These forums need a DRAMA zone.  It is there treaty rights, not that treaty rights mean anything to you descendants of European conquerors...
    What's your heritage?where do your ancestors descend from out of interest?
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,684
    I know where my ancestors come from.  The big difference is I'm a defender of all things First Nations, I defend their right to hunt, fish, gather and pay no taxes without asking white mans permission.  I may have European blood, but believe me I am in no way  European or would I ever want to be...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    Where has anyone said First Nation people's own the whales?  These forums need a DRAMA zone.  It is there treaty rights, not that treaty rights mean anything to you descendants of European conquerors...
    I think it's easy to make the step from your saying, "I can safely say First Nations people in Canada would gladly tell you where to go if you think you can trample on their hunting and fishing rights..." to assuming that means they "own" the whales or whatever else they are killing.  The point is, there is no need to kill whales and in fact, it makes no sense to kill them.  I don't see any need to get hung up on the word "own".

    And again, just because their migratory path takes them near some ones land, that does not give them the right to kill that animal.  I already pointed that out above. 

    As for treaty rights:  First off, please link something that states these rights so we can see what it actually says.  And secondly, if there is such a treaty right, does that make killing whales right?  What about the right of whales to live?  We know  enough about them to know they are large, intelligent mammals.  Kind of like people.  Maybe we should be hunting people instead.  I mean, really, which are more plentiful- people or whales?  Or how about we just stop- at the very least-  killing intelligent animals like people, whales, dolphins, porpoises?























    As for DRAMA zone:  Right on!  I can dig that.  When it comes to important issues, I have no issue with drama.   So yeah, let's start some drama going!



    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 14,931
    Stop hunting whales for harvest.  The people in Norway still do it as "tradition".  I'm not a fan of this.  Tradition can be bad.

    Stop hunting primates too, if anyone still does that?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,515
    edited August 29
    Where has anyone said First Nation people's own the whales?  These forums need a DRAMA zone.  It is there treaty rights, not that treaty rights mean anything to you descendants of European conquerors...
    Well the treaties that you're defending basically do say they own the whales, if nobody can insist that they stop hunting them no matter what their endangered status is (but it's the fact that I believe whales are as smart as we are, emotionally, that makes me so against it). A treaty that allows anyone to continue murdering whales is a treaty I'm happy to have broken in whatever way possible. I don't generally favour breaking treaty rights, but there are exceptions to every rule. I think that just assuming that all treaty rights should remain the same literally forever, no matter what the changing circumstances may be, is pretty irrational.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    Let's just all do the right thing and stop killing whales.  It is 2018.  There is no need to kill them.  Non Nada zip
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • brianlux said:
    Let's just all do the right thing and stop killing whales.  It is 2018.  There is no need to kill them.  Non Nada zip
    Agreed.

    The Mayans used to cut the hearts out of their people on top of pyramids in the jungle. They're entitled to some of their past (perhaps lost) culture... but not that aspect of it.

    If a society is going to modernize to make life easier (snowmobiles , etc.)... then it can also modernize to conform with planetary needs.

    You can't hide behind 'heritage' when slaughtering whales and then proceed to jump on your snowmobile and take a selfie with your cellular phone.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 14,931
    You should see what happens to chickens that hardly gets reported...
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 4,296
    If it were between a whale...and tofu...I just don’t know man...

    "At least I'm housebroken"
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