Should celebrities avoid talking politics to fans ?

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Comments

  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 2,541
    The point I am making isn't that you can't be upset if you go to a PJ show and hear Ed ramble for 10 minutes. My point is you've been a fan long enough to know that there is almost a 100% certainty that when you go to a PJ show, you are going to hear him rant at some point. You also know what his views and stances are. So that it's your decision to purchase that ticket. Because when you purchase those tickets, you know that you're going to hear Ed's views. Like it or not. If you dont like it, you don't have to buy the tix.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 2,541
    I'd love to go to a pj show and hear 3 hours of music. But, they are old too and needs breaks. So 2 hours and 15 minutes of music combined with 30 minutes of total encode time and 15 minutes of listening to Ed rant is well worth the $80 per ticket. In my opinion.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    When he rants it is a good time to get a beer.
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 6,675
    I'm curious. You guys make it sound like Ed goes for half an hour. Now, I'm just guessing here, but I'd think the tours of 2003-2006 were by far the most political. I hit up a ton of those shows and have even more boots from then and I don't know if I could ever say Ed went even close to ten minutes. The Vote For Change shows were probably the longest rants around ten minutes. Also, the northeast shows from '03 (Buffalo, Uniondale) were very vocal. So, what do you guys think is a legit length to estimate how long Ed talks. This is a separate from the pro/con argument of speaking, which shows went the longest on rants?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,105
    I can get beers really fast though.
  • seanwonseanwon Albany, NYPosts: 181
    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    Actually Kap passed for 16 TD's vs. only 4 INT's last season, with a 90.7 rating, third highest in his 6 year career. He also rushed for nearly 500 yards, with a 6.8 YPC average, highest in his career. On one of the 2 worst teams in the NFL. I wonder why so many people view him as having a bad season?
    1996: 9/29 Randall's Island 2, 10/1 Buffalo
    2000: 8/27 Saratoga Springs
    2003: 4/29 Albany, 5/2 Buffalo, 7/9 MSG 2
    2006: 5/12 Albany, 6/3 East Rutherford 2
    2008: 6/27 Hartford
    2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1
    2010: 5/15 Hartford, 5/21 MSG 2
    2013: 10/15 Worcester 1, 10/25 Hartford
    2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
    2016: 5/2 MSG 2, 8/5 Fenway 1, 11/7 Temple of the Dog MSG
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 2,541

    I'm curious. You guys make it sound like Ed goes for half an hour. Now, I'm just guessing here, but I'd think the tours of 2003-2006 were by far the most political. I hit up a ton of those shows and have even more boots from then and I don't know if I could ever say Ed went even close to ten minutes. The Vote For Change shows were probably the longest rants around ten minutes. Also, the northeast shows from '03 (Buffalo, Uniondale) were very vocal. So, what do you guys think is a legit length to estimate how long Ed talks. This is a separate from the pro/con argument of speaking, which shows went the longest on rants?

    No, I don't think he yaps too much. Maybe 10-15 minutes out of 3 hours. And maybe 5 of thise are political rants.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,430
    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    agree, but his refusal to stand during the national anthem ruined his popularity and interest from other teams.

    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 16,283

    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    agree, but his refusal to stand during the national anthem ruined his popularity and interest from other teams.

    You see I commend him on kneeling for something he believes in rather then worrying how the sports world would look at him , like they say "it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees " PG Midnight Oil ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447

    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    agree, but his refusal to stand during the national anthem ruined his popularity and interest from other teams.

    You see I commend him on kneeling for something he believes in rather then worrying how the sports world would look at him , like they say "it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees " PG Midnight Oil ...
    "On bended knee is no way to be free...."
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 6,675

    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    mrussel1 said:

    I'd rather not listen to any celeb's political views, I didn't go to a show or watch a movie to listen to them talk about their political views
    especially a concert, when I go to a concert the last thing I want to do is get pissed off over politics' while I'm trying to have a good time, and
    these actors and actress' who use their celeb status to talk about their political views just really ruins it for me, then there's the athletes...look what happened to Kaepernick, I predicted he'd be job hunting and now look at his sorry ass, a free agent with no offers yet I believe.
    how would your boss react if you used your work time and company name to push your political views ?

    Kaepernick's issues stem from his sorry play, not from his politics. Lebron James has made political statements in the past.. think he will be an unsigned free agent any time soon?
    agree, but his refusal to stand during the national anthem ruined his popularity and interest from other teams.

    Actually, Kap had one of the highest selling jerseys last year. I'd say that makes him quite popular.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,430
    well, we'll see if a team picks him up.
    I'm not doubting any of your statements I'm just calling it like I see it and you all may see it quite differently then I.
    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,129
    He's an asshat, but my opinion predates his kneeling self-promotion. As a Seahawks fan, I can't stand him, and hope he ends up riding the pine for a CFL team.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,430
    jeffbr said:

    He's an asshat, but my opinion predates his kneeling self-promotion. As a Seahawks fan, I can't stand him, and hope he ends up riding the pine for a CFL team.

    HAHAHAHAHHA ! riding the pine ? that's great ! funny stuff.

    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 2,940
    In medieval times and before, minstrels would travel from village to village and town to town with entertainment, news and often political commentary to earn a living. Many had previously been entertainers at court. So it's a long tradition for entertainers to offer more than just entertainment. I'm proud that even today, they do more than just entertain. :)
    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 34,472
    They should talk about whatever they want to talk about. Plus, I think people with a public platform even kind of have a responsibility to speak up about important issues, if they have something to say. I respect people who advocate for what they believe in (assuming they're not advocating bigotry or other things that hurt people).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • AnnafalkAnnafalk SwedenPosts: 2,929
    I also think they should talk about whatever they want to talk about, the scene is theirs, :)
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 4,854
    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 34,472
    edited March 16

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    Well I find it particularly ridiculous to tell musicians to "shut up and sing". Music and art are rooted in dissent. Without political and sociological influences, and dissent, the subject of the art would suddenly be incredibly limited. I don't want to live in a world where music and art isn't largely influenced by these things. I can't fucking believe there are so many people out there who want to separate art and music from dissenting ideas and politics and social justice. It seriously boggles my mind. It's an affront to humanity, frankly.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 34,472
    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    Please provide me one case where someone in the US was arrested and convicted of sedition or similar crime about Iraq, Afghan, etc. Many of the protesters were committing vandalism. If you are protesting and some of the protesters are committing crimes, sometimes you get caught up in teh shuffle. I'm not defending that, but I'm not defending vandalism either. However, there is a very clear line between unlawful protests (private property, no permit, etc.) along with vandalism AND sedition or free speech violations. There's also a line between an arrest and a conviction.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 4,794
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    There's action being taken by some states to basically squash out protest by making laws that indirectly make a lot of protesting way more difficult or greenlight arresting protestors based on the actions of a few. Back in the Iraq War ramp up, there was strong social pressure to not speak out against it or question Bush jr.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 34,472
    edited March 16
    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    Please provide me one case where someone in the US was arrested and convicted of sedition or similar crime about Iraq, Afghan, etc. Many of the protesters were committing vandalism. If you are protesting and some of the protesters are committing crimes, sometimes you get caught up in teh shuffle. I'm not defending that, but I'm not defending vandalism either. However, there is a very clear line between unlawful protests (private property, no permit, etc.) along with vandalism AND sedition or free speech violations. There's also a line between an arrest and a conviction.
    I am talking about this kind of drive to muzzle protestors, and other similar efforts (this is the first link I got from google btw - I've seem many stories about it from many sources lately, and related. Not to mention all the footage from places like Standing Rock, where peaceful protestors are being attacked by militarized police forces): https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19/republican-lawmakers-in-five-states-propose-bills-to-criminalize-peaceful-protest/
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    Please provide me one case where someone in the US was arrested and convicted of sedition or similar crime about Iraq, Afghan, etc. Many of the protesters were committing vandalism. If you are protesting and some of the protesters are committing crimes, sometimes you get caught up in teh shuffle. I'm not defending that, but I'm not defending vandalism either. However, there is a very clear line between unlawful protests (private property, no permit, etc.) along with vandalism AND sedition or free speech violations. There's also a line between an arrest and a conviction.
    I am talking about this kind of drive to muzzle protestors, and other similar efforts (this is the first link I got from google btw - I've seem many stories about it from many sources lately, and related): https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19/republican-lawmakers-in-five-states-propose-bills-to-criminalize-peaceful-protest/
    A protest movement doesn't have the right to impede or endanger others that are not involved in the protest. I am a great supporter of protests and marches, but I'm not a supporter of fucking up the traffic. Here in Richmond several months ago, some BLM protesters blocked I-95 in the afternoon, creating hours of back up. That's my way home from work.... sorry, their beliefs don't supersede my right to get home and pick my daughter up from gymnastics, church, day care, etc.

    The proposals, which strengthen or supplement existing laws addressing the blocking or obstructing of traffic, come in response to a string of high-profile highway closures and other actions led by Black Lives Matter activists and opponents of the Dakota Access Pipeline. Republicans reasonably expect an invigorated protest movement during the Trump years.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447
    There's a difference between free speech and the belief that you have an unmitigated right to fuck things up for other people. Any law that sought to arrest someone for peaceful, non violent, non obstruction speech (which also includes written speech) would be struck down swiftly by the courts.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 4,794
    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    Please provide me one case where someone in the US was arrested and convicted of sedition or similar crime about Iraq, Afghan, etc. Many of the protesters were committing vandalism. If you are protesting and some of the protesters are committing crimes, sometimes you get caught up in teh shuffle. I'm not defending that, but I'm not defending vandalism either. However, there is a very clear line between unlawful protests (private property, no permit, etc.) along with vandalism AND sedition or free speech violations. There's also a line between an arrest and a conviction.
    I am talking about this kind of drive to muzzle protestors, and other similar efforts (this is the first link I got from google btw - I've seem many stories about it from many sources lately, and related): https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19/republican-lawmakers-in-five-states-propose-bills-to-criminalize-peaceful-protest/
    A protest movement doesn't have the right to impede or endanger others that are not involved in the protest. I am a great supporter of protests and marches, but I'm not a supporter of fucking up the traffic. Here in Richmond several months ago, some BLM protesters blocked I-95 in the afternoon, creating hours of back up. That's my way home from work.... sorry, their beliefs don't supersede my right to get home and pick my daughter up from gymnastics, church, day care, etc.

    The proposals, which strengthen or supplement existing laws addressing the blocking or obstructing of traffic, come in response to a string of high-profile highway closures and other actions led by Black Lives Matter activists and opponents of the Dakota Access Pipeline. Republicans reasonably expect an invigorated protest movement during the Trump years.
    Driving unimpeded isn't a right. It's a side issue, but the sense of entitlement our culture has around driving grinds my gears (on my bike). And disruptive protests have been proven effective.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447

    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    Please provide me one case where someone in the US was arrested and convicted of sedition or similar crime about Iraq, Afghan, etc. Many of the protesters were committing vandalism. If you are protesting and some of the protesters are committing crimes, sometimes you get caught up in teh shuffle. I'm not defending that, but I'm not defending vandalism either. However, there is a very clear line between unlawful protests (private property, no permit, etc.) along with vandalism AND sedition or free speech violations. There's also a line between an arrest and a conviction.
    I am talking about this kind of drive to muzzle protestors, and other similar efforts (this is the first link I got from google btw - I've seem many stories about it from many sources lately, and related): https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19/republican-lawmakers-in-five-states-propose-bills-to-criminalize-peaceful-protest/
    A protest movement doesn't have the right to impede or endanger others that are not involved in the protest. I am a great supporter of protests and marches, but I'm not a supporter of fucking up the traffic. Here in Richmond several months ago, some BLM protesters blocked I-95 in the afternoon, creating hours of back up. That's my way home from work.... sorry, their beliefs don't supersede my right to get home and pick my daughter up from gymnastics, church, day care, etc.

    The proposals, which strengthen or supplement existing laws addressing the blocking or obstructing of traffic, come in response to a string of high-profile highway closures and other actions led by Black Lives Matter activists and opponents of the Dakota Access Pipeline. Republicans reasonably expect an invigorated protest movement during the Trump years.
    Driving unimpeded isn't a right. It's a side issue, but the sense of entitlement our culture has around driving grinds my gears (on my bike). And disruptive protests have been proven effective.
    There are laws that prevent people from walking or even riding a bike on the interstate. So no, you don't have a right to drive unimpeded, but there are existing laws to keep people off the interstates (effectively the same thing for purposes of this argument) And blocking a city road is very clearly disorderly conduct (if a police officer orders you off the road specifically) and you could probably even get to jaywalking.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 6,447
    edited March 16

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Seems like a very american thing. The only ones I've heard the "shut up and just sing" comments from.
    Never heard it about any swedish artists or from anyone I know here in Europe.

    Absurd to try to dictate what an artist/person are allowed to do or not. They are not monkeys in cages. Their songs and messages are, often, more than entertainment.

    It's almost like not being allowed to criticise your countries leader when he starts an unjust war. Oh wait, same country again.

    ...but I sing in the choir.

    What we're trying to get to in America is judging people by individual actions, not by the country in which they live or broad groups who we may wrongly believe they are a part.

    I'm trying to remember the cases where Americans were jailed because they criticized the war. I was a fierce critic but I don't remember not being "allowed" to voice my criticism. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I spent three years in jail and they gave me amnesia pills.
    There is definitely a drive to muzzle protesters via arrests, so I think you might be underestimating how many people actually have been jailed because they criticize the government these days... it is happening.
    There's action being taken by some states to basically squash out protest by making laws that indirectly make a lot of protesting way more difficult or greenlight arresting protestors based on the actions of a few. Back in the Iraq War ramp up, there was strong social pressure to not speak out against it or question Bush jr.
    Pressure by whom? And pressure is not a law. People pressured the NBA to move the all star game out of NC, but no one got arrested about it. I'm fine with pressure, but let's not be hypocritical and not notice when the pressure being applied is coming from the left.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 11,895
    Smellyman said:

    You're right. Trump should avoid it.

    thread should have ended here
This discussion has been closed.