Is the USA a nation of bigots and/or racists and/or idiots and hypocrites?

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 16,900
    Or a white guy having been in a car accident and knocking on a black home owners door seeking assistance and being shot to death.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 16,900
    Or a table of white guys at a restaurant being asked to prepay for their meal.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,765
    mace1229 said:

    mace1229 said:
    I don't know why this was surprising to anyone, and, honestly, don't know why it made big news.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the boys. But considering the following;

    We live in a society where mass shootings are not rare, this creates the "See something say something" movement.
    The boys apparently lacked social norms and appeared odd. They don;t even deny this, they defend it by saying they are "shy."
    The parent(s) was convinced they were not part of the tour because they arrived late and apparently did not cooperate with the parents when they became concerned.
    I didn't listen to the 911 tape, but nothing from the quotes I read sounded racist. She was convinced they were not part of the tour and was not sure why they were lingering around with such odd behavior.

    Now imagine this situation with a different outcome. Imagine they did come to hurt people. How many people would be casting blame on that parent for not saying something? What do you think the outrage would be if the public found out 2 people not part of the tour was following them around with "odd" behavior and something horrible did happen. How often has that been the case ad people cast the blame on witnesses for not speaking up? It happens with nearly every mass shooting. So you have this mother who is convinced these boys do not belong here and are not part of the group. She sees them behaving oddly, they refuse to cooperate with the people in the tour when asked questions. Are you really surprised someone came forward? Do you really blame her? Do you really think it was racially motivated? Ot maybe just paranoid with the violence that is on the news every day?

    It seems like the police handed it fine. Asked them just a few questions and let them go on their way. 
    If we call everyone racists when they report someone with odd behavior, how do we expect them to say something when they see something? We can;t expect them to be right 100% of the time, but everyone sure is willing to blame others when they miss a red flag.

    Odds are very very very low that the parent would have felt they “didn’t belong” if they were white. We also tell kids they don’t have to answer questions from adults they don’t know that don’t have any business questioning them. 

    This is straight up racist bullshit. 
    Do you have any reason to believe this? Plenty of cops get called for suspicious white people. Do you have any reason to believe this was racially motivated? Other than the fact they weren’t white there was nothing about this story that comes across as targeting minorities. People report white people all the time, shootings have been prevented because of it.

    There is nothing about the story that suggests it isn't racially motivated. Nothing about the teens' behaviour that's out of the ordinary for any teen in an unfamiliar situation. Except that they were on a college tour in Colorado, and weren't white, so they must not belong. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,765
    Why did the woman even call 911? Isn't 911 for urgent threats? If she felt so strongly that they "didn't belong", why didn't she ask the tour leader if they were, you know, registered for the tour? 

    I think this woman is a racist moron who should seriously rethink how she approaches the world, if the presence of two quiet first nations young men unnerves her. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,923
    edited May 6
    Why did the woman even call 911? Isn't 911 for urgent threats? If she felt so strongly that they "didn't belong", why didn't she ask the tour leader if they were, you know, registered for the tour? 

    I think this woman is a racist moron who should seriously rethink how she approaches the world, if the presence of two quiet first nations young men unnerves her. 
    I believe they did ask if they were on the tour, that was part of the suspicious behavior. They joined late and didn’t respond to any questions.  The article doesn’t say exactly what was asked, but that they ignored all questions from the group. I could assume at least one of them was about being part of the tour.

    someone said they teach their kids not to answer questions from adults. I don’t know why. I don’t see what is so wrong when someone joins a group to just ask “hey, this is a registered tour that has already started, are you sure you’re in the right place?” What’s wrong with that? Why would anyone teach their kids not to answer questions? I ask and answer questions every day I’m in public: “excuse me, are you in line or can I go?” Part of society to ask and answer basic questions.  Not a big deal at all in my opinion. And to flat out refuse I would consider to be odd behavior and can completely understand why this Mom thought they were not part of the group.

    Again, I don’t think the mom did the right thing.
    im just saying in a culture where we promote “if you see something, say something” I don’t know why this is shocking and I dont immediately jump to the racist conclusion. 
    youre right, 911 is for emergencies, she shouldn’t have called it. Should not have happened, she should not have called 911.
     I’m still not ready to convict her in the court of public opinion as being a racist.
     

    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 15,476

    I saw this.

    At first, I thought it was 'fake news' because how does something like this happen?

    Holy Christ.
    Because we have a racist-in-chief who encourages  this kind of ignorant racist behavior
    Yup. That’s true. I wonder if also part of it was 2 males joining the group late. I mean we’ve let guys get away with a lot and it’s finally being highlighted as the awful behavior it is. 
    Huh?

    Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis?
    2 makes joining a college tour group late.... sexual predators? I mean could be stalking fresh meat ;)


    I would hope it would take a bit more than being late for a tour to be suspected rapists.

    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,418
    When I am up to no good, I join tour groups on a college campus.   so much mischief to be had!
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,032
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mace1229 said:
    I don't know why this was surprising to anyone, and, honestly, don't know why it made big news.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the boys. But considering the following;

    We live in a society where mass shootings are not rare, this creates the "See something say something" movement.
    The boys apparently lacked social norms and appeared odd. They don;t even deny this, they defend it by saying they are "shy."
    The parent(s) was convinced they were not part of the tour because they arrived late and apparently did not cooperate with the parents when they became concerned.
    I didn't listen to the 911 tape, but nothing from the quotes I read sounded racist. She was convinced they were not part of the tour and was not sure why they were lingering around with such odd behavior.

    Now imagine this situation with a different outcome. Imagine they did come to hurt people. How many people would be casting blame on that parent for not saying something? What do you think the outrage would be if the public found out 2 people not part of the tour was following them around with "odd" behavior and something horrible did happen. How often has that been the case ad people cast the blame on witnesses for not speaking up? It happens with nearly every mass shooting. So you have this mother who is convinced these boys do not belong here and are not part of the group. She sees them behaving oddly, they refuse to cooperate with the people in the tour when asked questions. Are you really surprised someone came forward? Do you really blame her? Do you really think it was racially motivated? Ot maybe just paranoid with the violence that is on the news every day?

    It seems like the police handed it fine. Asked them just a few questions and let them go on their way. 
    If we call everyone racists when they report someone with odd behavior, how do we expect them to say something when they see something? We can;t expect them to be right 100% of the time, but everyone sure is willing to blame others when they miss a red flag.

    Odds are very very very low that the parent would have felt they “didn’t belong” if they were white. We also tell kids they don’t have to answer questions from adults they don’t know that don’t have any business questioning them. 

    This is straight up racist bullshit. 
    Do you have any reason to believe this? Plenty of cops get called for suspicious white people. Do you have any reason to believe this was racially motivated? Other than the fact they weren’t white there was nothing about this story that comes across as targeting minorities. People report white people all the time, shootings have been prevented because of it.
    Please post a link to a story where the cops were called on a white person for being someplace they had every right to be, bonus points if the caller was black, Hispanic or Asian.
    Are you being serious? You really don’t think white people get the police called on them? If you really believe that, this conversation isn’t worth continuing.
    At age 48, I could’ve joined that college tour late, and I fully guarantee you no one would’ve called the cops. 
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 15,476
    Smellyman said:
    When I am up to no good, I join tour groups on a college campus.   so much mischief to be had!
    Lol
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 5,528
    I went on the tour of CSU campus for prospective students 2 years ago.
    Our group had a very culturally diverse dynamic of kids and parents from all over the country.
    If a couple of Native American kids had shown up late, checked in with the tour leader as these kids did, and did their own thing, I seriously  doubt anyone would  have called 911.

    As far as I' concerned this is pure racism driven by ignorance.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,923
    edited May 6
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mace1229 said:
    I don't know why this was surprising to anyone, and, honestly, don't know why it made big news.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the boys. But considering the following;

    We live in a society where mass shootings are not rare, this creates the "See something say something" movement.
    The boys apparently lacked social norms and appeared odd. They don;t even deny this, they defend it by saying they are "shy."
    The parent(s) was convinced they were not part of the tour because they arrived late and apparently did not cooperate with the parents when they became concerned.
    I didn't listen to the 911 tape, but nothing from the quotes I read sounded racist. She was convinced they were not part of the tour and was not sure why they were lingering around with such odd behavior.

    Now imagine this situation with a different outcome. Imagine they did come to hurt people. How many people would be casting blame on that parent for not saying something? What do you think the outrage would be if the public found out 2 people not part of the tour was following them around with "odd" behavior and something horrible did happen. How often has that been the case ad people cast the blame on witnesses for not speaking up? It happens with nearly every mass shooting. So you have this mother who is convinced these boys do not belong here and are not part of the group. She sees them behaving oddly, they refuse to cooperate with the people in the tour when asked questions. Are you really surprised someone came forward? Do you really blame her? Do you really think it was racially motivated? Ot maybe just paranoid with the violence that is on the news every day?

    It seems like the police handed it fine. Asked them just a few questions and let them go on their way. 
    If we call everyone racists when they report someone with odd behavior, how do we expect them to say something when they see something? We can;t expect them to be right 100% of the time, but everyone sure is willing to blame others when they miss a red flag.

    Odds are very very very low that the parent would have felt they “didn’t belong” if they were white. We also tell kids they don’t have to answer questions from adults they don’t know that don’t have any business questioning them. 

    This is straight up racist bullshit. 
    Do you have any reason to believe this? Plenty of cops get called for suspicious white people. Do you have any reason to believe this was racially motivated? Other than the fact they weren’t white there was nothing about this story that comes across as targeting minorities. People report white people all the time, shootings have been prevented because of it.
    Please post a link to a story where the cops were called on a white person for being someplace they had every right to be, bonus points if the caller was black, Hispanic or Asian.
    Are you being serious? You really don’t think white people get the police called on them? If you really believe that, this conversation isn’t worth continuing.
    At age 48, I could’ve joined that college tour late, and I fully guarantee you no one would’ve called the cops. 
    I think everyone is missing a big point. It’s not that they showed up late, they had very odd behavior. They admit to having odd behavior. Yeah, you, me and a million other people could have shown up late, and I bet there’s a good chance at least 1 person would have casually asked “Did you register for a tour?” And we would have answered “yes.”
    they showed up late and then refused to answer that very simple question, that’s what was odd. 
    Again, I don’t think it warranted 911, but I don’t think this story is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. And this response was a good example. There’s more to the story than showing up late and having the cops called. 911 wasn’t called because they were late. I’m sure people are late every day to tour groups. But then I’m sure they respond to simple questions too
    peope are asking like they’ve never been questioned for anything, and only minorities or blacks are. It’s part of everyday life, and responding is what is normal. It is completely odd to be asked a simple question and have the mentality to refuse to answer. Everyone who think questioning them was out of line, have you never been in  first-class chekin lines and someone asks to see your ticket, have you never accidentally cut in line and somewhere asks how long you’ve been waiting, have you never seen a group of people and asked what the line was for to make sure you’re in the right place? It doesn’t matter what color you are, if you stand there and refuse to acknowledge someone asking that simple question they are going to think you’re odd.
    Again, 911 not necessary, I just think this story is blown up.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 15,750
    I might call the cops on some white folks today just for fun
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,765
    edited May 6
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mace1229 said:
    I don't know why this was surprising to anyone, and, honestly, don't know why it made big news.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the boys. But considering the following;

    We live in a society where mass shootings are not rare, this creates the "See something say something" movement.
    The boys apparently lacked social norms and appeared odd. They don;t even deny this, they defend it by saying they are "shy."
    The parent(s) was convinced they were not part of the tour because they arrived late and apparently did not cooperate with the parents when they became concerned.
    I didn't listen to the 911 tape, but nothing from the quotes I read sounded racist. She was convinced they were not part of the tour and was not sure why they were lingering around with such odd behavior.

    Now imagine this situation with a different outcome. Imagine they did come to hurt people. How many people would be casting blame on that parent for not saying something? What do you think the outrage would be if the public found out 2 people not part of the tour was following them around with "odd" behavior and something horrible did happen. How often has that been the case ad people cast the blame on witnesses for not speaking up? It happens with nearly every mass shooting. So you have this mother who is convinced these boys do not belong here and are not part of the group. She sees them behaving oddly, they refuse to cooperate with the people in the tour when asked questions. Are you really surprised someone came forward? Do you really blame her? Do you really think it was racially motivated? Ot maybe just paranoid with the violence that is on the news every day?

    It seems like the police handed it fine. Asked them just a few questions and let them go on their way. 
    If we call everyone racists when they report someone with odd behavior, how do we expect them to say something when they see something? We can;t expect them to be right 100% of the time, but everyone sure is willing to blame others when they miss a red flag.

    Odds are very very very low that the parent would have felt they “didn’t belong” if they were white. We also tell kids they don’t have to answer questions from adults they don’t know that don’t have any business questioning them. 

    This is straight up racist bullshit. 
    Do you have any reason to believe this? Plenty of cops get called for suspicious white people. Do you have any reason to believe this was racially motivated? Other than the fact they weren’t white there was nothing about this story that comes across as targeting minorities. People report white people all the time, shootings have been prevented because of it.
    Please post a link to a story where the cops were called on a white person for being someplace they had every right to be, bonus points if the caller was black, Hispanic or Asian.
    Are you being serious? You really don’t think white people get the police called on them? If you really believe that, this conversation isn’t worth continuing.
    At age 48, I could’ve joined that college tour late, and I fully guarantee you no one would’ve called the cops. 
    I think everyone is missing a big point. It’s not that they showed up late, they had very odd behavior. They admit to having odd behavior. Yeah, you, me and a million other people could have shown up late, and I bet there’s a good chance at least 1 person would have casually asked “Did you register for a tour?” And we would have answered “yes.”
    they showed up late and then refused to answer that very simple question, that’s what was odd. 
    Again, I don’t think it warranted 911, but I don’t think this story is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. And this response was a good example. There’s more to the story than showing up late and having the cops called. 911 wasn’t called because they were late. I’m sure people are late every day to tour groups. But then I’m sure they respond to simple questions too
    peope are asking like they’ve never been questioned for anything, and only minorities or blacks are. It’s part of everyday life, and responding is what is normal. It is completely odd to be asked a simple question and have the mentality to refuse to answer. Everyone who think questioning them was out of line, have you never been in  first-class chekin lines and someone asks to see your ticket, have you never accidentally cut in line and somewhere asks how long you’ve been waiting, have you never seen a group of people and asked what the line was for to make sure you’re in the right place? It doesn’t matter what color you are, if you stand there and refuse to acknowledge someone asking that simple question they are going to think you’re odd.
    Again, 911 not necessary, I just think this story is blown up.
    The tour leader has said she talked with them. She’s also said she didn’t see anything out of the ordinary with how they were behaving. It seems it’s only that one parent who did. 
     
    And I think it’s you that’s missing the point. Calling 911 was this woman’s response because of her automatic belief that these native kids were a danger. 
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,765
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mace1229 said:
    I don't know why this was surprising to anyone, and, honestly, don't know why it made big news.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the boys. But considering the following;

    We live in a society where mass shootings are not rare, this creates the "See something say something" movement.
    The boys apparently lacked social norms and appeared odd. They don;t even deny this, they defend it by saying they are "shy."
    The parent(s) was convinced they were not part of the tour because they arrived late and apparently did not cooperate with the parents when they became concerned.
    I didn't listen to the 911 tape, but nothing from the quotes I read sounded racist. She was convinced they were not part of the tour and was not sure why they were lingering around with such odd behavior.

    Now imagine this situation with a different outcome. Imagine they did come to hurt people. How many people would be casting blame on that parent for not saying something? What do you think the outrage would be if the public found out 2 people not part of the tour was following them around with "odd" behavior and something horrible did happen. How often has that been the case ad people cast the blame on witnesses for not speaking up? It happens with nearly every mass shooting. So you have this mother who is convinced these boys do not belong here and are not part of the group. She sees them behaving oddly, they refuse to cooperate with the people in the tour when asked questions. Are you really surprised someone came forward? Do you really blame her? Do you really think it was racially motivated? Ot maybe just paranoid with the violence that is on the news every day?

    It seems like the police handed it fine. Asked them just a few questions and let them go on their way. 
    If we call everyone racists when they report someone with odd behavior, how do we expect them to say something when they see something? We can;t expect them to be right 100% of the time, but everyone sure is willing to blame others when they miss a red flag.

    Odds are very very very low that the parent would have felt they “didn’t belong” if they were white. We also tell kids they don’t have to answer questions from adults they don’t know that don’t have any business questioning them. 

    This is straight up racist bullshit. 
    Do you have any reason to believe this? Plenty of cops get called for suspicious white people. Do you have any reason to believe this was racially motivated? Other than the fact they weren’t white there was nothing about this story that comes across as targeting minorities. People report white people all the time, shootings have been prevented because of it.
    Please post a link to a story where the cops were called on a white person for being someplace they had every right to be, bonus points if the caller was black, Hispanic or Asian.
    Are you being serious? You really don’t think white people get the police called on them? If you really believe that, this conversation isn’t worth continuing.
    At age 48, I could’ve joined that college tour late, and I fully guarantee you no one would’ve called the cops. 
    I think everyone is missing a big point. It’s not that they showed up late, they had very odd behavior. They admit to having odd behavior. Yeah, you, me and a million other people could have shown up late, and I bet there’s a good chance at least 1 person would have casually asked “Did you register for a tour?” And we would have answered “yes.”
    they showed up late and then refused to answer that very simple question, that’s what was odd. 
    Again, I don’t think it warranted 911, but I don’t think this story is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. And this response was a good example. There’s more to the story than showing up late and having the cops called. 911 wasn’t called because they were late. I’m sure people are late every day to tour groups. But then I’m sure they respond to simple questions too
    peope are asking like they’ve never been questioned for anything, and only minorities or blacks are. It’s part of everyday life, and responding is what is normal. It is completely odd to be asked a simple question and have the mentality to refuse to answer. Everyone who think questioning them was out of line, have you never been in  first-class chekin lines and someone asks to see your ticket, have you never accidentally cut in line and somewhere asks how long you’ve been waiting, have you never seen a group of people and asked what the line was for to make sure you’re in the right place? It doesn’t matter what color you are, if you stand there and refuse to acknowledge someone asking that simple question they are going to think you’re odd.
    Again, 911 not necessary, I just think this story is blown up.

    It simply isn't true that they refused to answer any questions. The woman is quoted as saying that when she asked the boys what the intended to study and one of them answered, the other laughed, which made her think that the first was lying. 

    Honestly, if I had a dollar for every time my brother laughed at what I said when I was younger......

    The point, which you are missing, is that she never even gave them the benefit of the doubt. It sounds to me like she questioned them in a way that made them feel uncomfortable and they didn't want to answer her, nor did they have to. If I don't like the way some busy body in a group is talking to me, I might also move away and not engage with her. I have that benefit, because I'm white, and no one is going to call the cops on me for it. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 16,900
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,118
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 16,900
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 
    Team Trump Treason is an enabler, he makes it okay to state your fear of the “other.” His immigration policies, campaign rhetoric and his “There are decent people on both sides,” illustrate that. Sorry you don’t have the ability to realize that.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,118
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 
    Team Trump Treason is an enabler, he makes it okay to state your fear of the “other.” His immigration policies, campaign rhetoric and his “There are decent people on both sides,” illustrate that. Sorry you don’t have the ability to realize that.
    He is a jackass, sure. But the woman’s racist ways were probably well established before his presidency. It’s just funny how in AMT everything comes back to being Trumps fault 
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,765
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,118
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    For this incident, yes I am. Everyone has different scales of sensitivity to different events in their life and maybe for some reason this woman really thought something was off and needed to be addressed. It does seem racially motivated, but we don’t know that for sure. Her calling 911 wasn’t a crime, just extreme and unnecessary. 

    I believe the increase in hate crimes very well may be related to his presidency. But actual crimes, not thinking something wasn’t right on a tour
    Pittsburgh 2013
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,765
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    For this incident, yes I am. Everyone has different scales of sensitivity to different events in their life and maybe for some reason this woman really thought something was off and needed to be addressed. It does seem racially motivated, but we don’t know that for sure. Her calling 911 wasn’t a crime, just extreme and unnecessary. 

    I believe the increase in hate crimes very well may be related to his presidency. But actual crimes, not thinking something wasn’t right on a tour
    I’m not calling her actions a crime, either, but there is a spectrum of racist behaviour that ranges from day to day dismissal and denigration to outright hate crimes. Observationally, the whole spectrum seems to have increased in frequency in the last couple of years. Not just in the US, but internationally, in concert with the return to prominence of the far right in many European counties. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 16,900
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    For this incident, yes I am. Everyone has different scales of sensitivity to different events in their life and maybe for some reason this woman really thought something was off and needed to be addressed. It does seem racially motivated, but we don’t know that for sure. Her calling 911 wasn’t a crime, just extreme and unnecessary. 

    I believe the increase in hate crimes very well may be related to his presidency. But actual crimes, not thinking something wasn’t right on a tour
    If it were two white guys, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,118
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    For this incident, yes I am. Everyone has different scales of sensitivity to different events in their life and maybe for some reason this woman really thought something was off and needed to be addressed. It does seem racially motivated, but we don’t know that for sure. Her calling 911 wasn’t a crime, just extreme and unnecessary. 

    I believe the increase in hate crimes very well may be related to his presidency. But actual crimes, not thinking something wasn’t right on a tour
    If it were two white guys, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
    Maybe. Maybe not. 

    I don’t think that statement of ‘if’ should indict her. But she shouldn’t be absolved of taking extreme measures either. 
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,923
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    For this incident, yes I am. Everyone has different scales of sensitivity to different events in their life and maybe for some reason this woman really thought something was off and needed to be addressed. It does seem racially motivated, but we don’t know that for sure. Her calling 911 wasn’t a crime, just extreme and unnecessary. 

    I believe the increase in hate crimes very well may be related to his presidency. But actual crimes, not thinking something wasn’t right on a tour
    If it were two white guys, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
    True, because if it were 2 white guys it wouldn’t have even made the news.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 16,900
    mace1229 said:
    Just more Trumpian normalization of racism. “Answer me when I speak to you, boy.” More fear of “the other.”
    Thank goodness Trump is president or you wouldn’t have anyone to blame in this world for things that are unrelated to him. Is it just fun to unload all your frustrations in the world on him? 

    Before being attacked, no, I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him. 

    Unrelated to Trump? Are you sure about that?

    Even law enforcement is reporting a substantial increase in hate crimes since Trump was elected. 
    For this incident, yes I am. Everyone has different scales of sensitivity to different events in their life and maybe for some reason this woman really thought something was off and needed to be addressed. It does seem racially motivated, but we don’t know that for sure. Her calling 911 wasn’t a crime, just extreme and unnecessary. 

    I believe the increase in hate crimes very well may be related to his presidency. But actual crimes, not thinking something wasn’t right on a tour
    If it were two white guys, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
    True, because if it were 2 white guys it wouldn’t have even made the news.
    Because it never would have happened. She would not have questioned their right to be there.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 15,750
    In an era where fear, security, and suspicion rule the day,  i'm not so sure this can, or should, be dismissed as simple racism... 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,923
    my2hands said:
    In an era where fear, security, and suspicion rule the day,  i'm not so sure this can, or should, be dismissed as simple racism... 
    that has pretty much been my point. We live in an era of “if you see something, say something” and constant paranoia of the next shooting.
    i think she over reacted, but from the information I’ve seen it’s not a clear cut of racism.
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,118
    mace1229 said:
    my2hands said:
    In an era where fear, security, and suspicion rule the day,  i'm not so sure this can, or should, be dismissed as simple racism... 
    that has pretty much been my point. We live in an era of “if you see something, say something” and constant paranoia of the next shooting.
    i think she over reacted, but from the information I’ve seen it’s not a clear cut of racism.
    Exactly. 
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,923
    edited May 6
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mace1229 said:
    I don't know why this was surprising to anyone, and, honestly, don't know why it made big news.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for the boys. But considering the following;

    We live in a society where mass shootings are not rare, this creates the "See something say something" movement.
    The boys apparently lacked social norms and appeared odd. They don;t even deny this, they defend it by saying they are "shy."
    The parent(s) was convinced they were not part of the tour because they arrived late and apparently did not cooperate with the parents when they became concerned.
    I didn't listen to the 911 tape, but nothing from the quotes I read sounded racist. She was convinced they were not part of the tour and was not sure why they were lingering around with such odd behavior.

    Now imagine this situation with a different outcome. Imagine they did come to hurt people. How many people would be casting blame on that parent for not saying something? What do you think the outrage would be if the public found out 2 people not part of the tour was following them around with "odd" behavior and something horrible did happen. How often has that been the case ad people cast the blame on witnesses for not speaking up? It happens with nearly every mass shooting. So you have this mother who is convinced these boys do not belong here and are not part of the group. She sees them behaving oddly, they refuse to cooperate with the people in the tour when asked questions. Are you really surprised someone came forward? Do you really blame her? Do you really think it was racially motivated? Ot maybe just paranoid with the violence that is on the news every day?

    It seems like the police handed it fine. Asked them just a few questions and let them go on their way. 
    If we call everyone racists when they report someone with odd behavior, how do we expect them to say something when they see something? We can;t expect them to be right 100% of the time, but everyone sure is willing to blame others when they miss a red flag.

    Odds are very very very low that the parent would have felt they “didn’t belong” if they were white. We also tell kids they don’t have to answer questions from adults they don’t know that don’t have any business questioning them. 

    This is straight up racist bullshit. 
    Do you have any reason to believe this? Plenty of cops get called for suspicious white people. Do you have any reason to believe this was racially motivated? Other than the fact they weren’t white there was nothing about this story that comes across as targeting minorities. People report white people all the time, shootings have been prevented because of it.
    Please post a link to a story where the cops were called on a white person for being someplace they had every right to be, bonus points if the caller was black, Hispanic or Asian.
    Are you being serious? You really don’t think white people get the police called on them? If you really believe that, this conversation isn’t worth continuing.
    At age 48, I could’ve joined that college tour late, and I fully guarantee you no one would’ve called the cops. 
    I think everyone is missing a big point. It’s not that they showed up late, they had very odd behavior. They admit to having odd behavior. Yeah, you, me and a million other people could have shown up late, and I bet there’s a good chance at least 1 person would have casually asked “Did you register for a tour?” And we would have answered “yes.”
    they showed up late and then refused to answer that very simple question, that’s what was odd. 
    Again, I don’t think it warranted 911, but I don’t think this story is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. And this response was a good example. There’s more to the story than showing up late and having the cops called. 911 wasn’t called because they were late. I’m sure people are late every day to tour groups. But then I’m sure they respond to simple questions too
    peope are asking like they’ve never been questioned for anything, and only minorities or blacks are. It’s part of everyday life, and responding is what is normal. It is completely odd to be asked a simple question and have the mentality to refuse to answer. Everyone who think questioning them was out of line, have you never been in  first-class chekin lines and someone asks to see your ticket, have you never accidentally cut in line and somewhere asks how long you’ve been waiting, have you never seen a group of people and asked what the line was for to make sure you’re in the right place? It doesn’t matter what color you are, if you stand there and refuse to acknowledge someone asking that simple question they are going to think you’re odd.
    Again, 911 not necessary, I just think this story is blown up.

    It simply isn't true that they refused to answer any questions. The woman is quoted as saying that when she asked the boys what the intended to study and one of them answered, the other laughed, which made her think that the first was lying. 

    Honestly, if I had a dollar for every time my brother laughed at what I said when I was younger......

    The point, which you are missing, is that she never even gave them the benefit of the doubt. It sounds to me like she questioned them in a way that made them feel uncomfortable and they didn't want to answer her, nor did they have to. If I don't like the way some busy body in a group is talking to me, I might also move away and not engage with her. I have that benefit, because I'm white, and no one is going to call the cops on me for it. 
    The article isnt very clear on that. It does state she asked their major and they laughed, but later in the article it also states “When asked why they didn't respond to questions by people in the group, the boys say Lloyd is shy.”
    Everything in that statement is plural. Multiple people and multiple questions. Like I said several times, don't think the Mom did the right think, but I don’t think it’s deserves all this attention either.  So yes,  it’s more reasonable to read that as someone casually asked why they were joining the group and that they refused to answer. That is weird. Not worth calling 911, but justified in calling it odd behavior.
    the thing that bugs me about this situation is there is no indication at all, zero, that this was racially motivated. But since it was 2 minorities it’s guilty until proven innocent on the Mom. That seems like the case more and more often.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 15,750
    mace1229 said:
    my2hands said:
    In an era where fear, security, and suspicion rule the day,  i'm not so sure this can, or should, be dismissed as simple racism... 
    that has pretty much been my point. We live in an era of “if you see something, say something” and constant paranoia of the next shooting.
    i think she over reacted, but from the information I’ve seen it’s not a clear cut of racism.
    But I don't think we can say some level of racism or stereotyping absolutely did not play a factor here either...

    People are consumed with fear, and stereotypes 
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