Iran deal.....

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Comments

  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    They take the side of almost everyone over in that part of the world,except for Israel of course.

    Its all our fault J.Anything those over there do is justified by our actions in the past is what they like to say.Where have you been.You are not aloud to critique that part of the world.It dosent fit into the base narrative on these boards.Anything to the contrary and your a Fox News watching ,rascist.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,754
    rr165892 said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    They take the side of almost everyone over in that part of the world,except for Israel of course.

    Its all our fault J.Anything those over there do is justified by our actions in the past is what they like to say.Where have you been.You are not aloud to critique that part of the world.It dosent fit into the base narrative on these boards.Anything to the contrary and your a Fox News watching ,rascist.
    This is an awfully broad brush you are trying to sweep with here, but I'm not even clear what the accusation really is. And I think your definitions of conservative, progressive, liberal, etc. are misconstrued. I am social liberal, economic moderate and a Democrat. And when it comes to international relations, I'm highly aligned with the thinkers at periodicals such as the American Conservative magazine. That means that we support modest foreign policy, anti-nation building, and the Powell Doctrine. Many of my fellow progressives have gravitated to this perspective which is traditional conservatism. Remember, Neo-Cons are really the heirs to the Kennedy foreign policy team led by people such as John McNamara and Dean Rusk.. who were brilliant intellectuals but fatally flawed in their assessment and prosecution of Vietnam. After the Democratic party went pro peace, they gravitated to the Right where they sit firmly today. And yes, I'm very much against their foreign policy vision.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Mrussel,good post.And you are correct,I was painting with a broad brush.I don't mean to lump everyone into the same category.BTW,I also am similar in some of my leanings a lot like you,although I choose to stay Independent

    I guess I'm venting Multiple threads worth of Middle East /N.African policy discussions that we have over the years and the same folks take the same stances time and time again.Most the time it's very pro middle eastern,anti Isreal anti west rhetoric.If you speak out with concern or against refugees,terrorists/Islamic fundamentalists you get arguments why it's all our fault and excuses for why the actions of others are understandable.(Go back and look at Charlie thread,or the other Paris thread,any of the many Israel hate threads,etc)You will see who has sympathy for who.Thats really what I was commenting on.
  • Amongst the AniAmongst the Ani @WobbiePosts: 7,637
    RR, what did you expect America to do? We are seeing with North Korea that denial that they could build a nuke is only going to put us in a much worse position than trying to bring them into the fold of the West. To me we have a choice with Iran. Either try and reach an agreement with them or take military action against them. Sanctions did not work. You think the middle east is in bad shape, just watch what would happen should we try and invade Iran.
    Fuckus rules all
    Rob
    Seattle
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,284
    edited January 2016
    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    Not the same thing. This is a straw man.

    Different country, different culture. The point is, it's their business not ours. I may not like their human rights record but that's for them to figure out.

    This whole thing about taking sides? Who here is on the side of Iran? I'm not on the side of Iran....I'm on the side of peace. This deal is our best shot.....and it's working.

    There are a lot of folks that sure seem to be pissed off that this deal with Iran has worked so far. Why is that? Do people hate Obama that much that they would rather see us live in a more dangerous world than see him succeed? I really don't get it.
    Post edited by dignin on
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697

    RR, what did you expect America to do? We are seeing with North Korea that denial that they could build a nuke is only going to put us in a much worse position than trying to bring them into the fold of the West. To me we have a choice with Iran. Either try and reach an agreement with them or take military action against them. Sanctions did not work. You think the middle east is in bad shape, just watch what would happen should we try and invade Iran.

    The deal itself dosent bother me per say.Ive always thought that Iran has a very large number of young people and anything to give them a sense of forward movement and more freedom is a good thing.Overall in the future that will help move them more toward moderation and less toward extremist governing.
    I thought the lifting of sanctions shoulda been pushed a few weeks.Timing sucked.
    I also don't trust the govt over there.I believe they are weasels who will break their end of the bargain.To be seen I guess.I still have issue with the hardliners who want death to America and Death to the Jews.Im wondering just how good this deal will turn out.But I'm open and hope it works out.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,424
    I see nothing wrong with mutually beneficial dialogue. Til now our sole alignment wih SA and sunni sects has done nothing for us. Nor has the impunity with which Israel operates as our sole ally in the region.

    Its akin to a boil. Its festering and infected. We need a different course of treatment than the aspirin we have been using.
    Isolation keeps the status quo and whats been beneficial about that?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,754
    I would disagree that sanctions haven't worked. Without sanctions, I do not believe that they would have cut any deal. There would have been no reason to do so. If your expectations of sanctions was complete capitulation, well that is unrealistic. N. Korea is an example of where sanctions haven't worked. They are happy to let their people starve.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,693
    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    Not the same thing. This is a straw man.

    Different country, different culture. The point is, it's their business not ours. I may not like their human rights record but that's for them to figure out.

    This whole thing about taking sides? Who here is on the side of Iran? I'm not on the side of Iran....I'm on the side of peace. This deal is our best shot.....and it's working.

    There are a lot of folks that sure seem to be pissed off that this deal with Iran has worked so far. Why is that? Do people hate Obama that much that they would rather see us live in a more dangerous world than see him succeed? I really don't get it.
    I don't know if this brings us any closer to peace.

    The US has three countries listed as State Sponsors of Terrorism and Iran is still one of them and they are much better funded with their global economy back.

    And the Saudis are now talking about building their own nuclear program.

    (l will save the hijab law-enforced custom debate for another rainy day)
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,424
    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    Not the same thing. This is a straw man.

    Different country, different culture. The point is, it's their business not ours. I may not like their human rights record but that's for them to figure out.

    This whole thing about taking sides? Who here is on the side of Iran? I'm not on the side of Iran....I'm on the side of peace. This deal is our best shot.....and it's working.

    There are a lot of folks that sure seem to be pissed off that this deal with Iran has worked so far. Why is that? Do people hate Obama that much that they would rather see us live in a more dangerous world than see him succeed? I really don't get it.
    I don't know if this brings us any closer to peace.

    The US has three countries listed as State Sponsors of Terrorism and Iran is still one of them and they are much better funded with their global economy back.

    And the Saudis are now talking about building their own nuclear program.

    (l will save the hijab law-enforced custom debate for another rainy day)
    So long as you include the Amish, Mennonite, and Orthodox Jewish women. Then we can talk.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • EA17313 said:

    I'm Iranian. I'm also a "natural born" American. I've been a Pearl Jam fan for about 23 or 24 years. I'm am really proud to be a Pearl Jam fan. I wish they had a flag.

    So, are you going to any shows? Let's meet up, have a drink, discuss our appreciation for the band. Philly, NYC, Ottawa, Toronto for me, hopefully. How about you?

    Peace.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,693
    mickeyrat said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    Not the same thing. This is a straw man.

    Different country, different culture. The point is, it's their business not ours. I may not like their human rights record but that's for them to figure out.

    This whole thing about taking sides? Who here is on the side of Iran? I'm not on the side of Iran....I'm on the side of peace. This deal is our best shot.....and it's working.

    There are a lot of folks that sure seem to be pissed off that this deal with Iran has worked so far. Why is that? Do people hate Obama that much that they would rather see us live in a more dangerous world than see him succeed? I really don't get it.
    I don't know if this brings us any closer to peace.

    The US has three countries listed as State Sponsors of Terrorism and Iran is still one of them and they are much better funded with their global economy back.

    And the Saudis are now talking about building their own nuclear program.

    (l will save the hijab law-enforced custom debate for another rainy day)
    So long as you include the Amish, Mennonite, and Orthodox Jewish women. Then we can talk.
    As soon as they start imprisoning US military we will! :tongue:
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,424
    Jason P said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    Not the same thing. This is a straw man.

    Different country, different culture. The point is, it's their business not ours. I may not like their human rights record but that's for them to figure out.

    This whole thing about taking sides? Who here is on the side of Iran? I'm not on the side of Iran....I'm on the side of peace. This deal is our best shot.....and it's working.

    There are a lot of folks that sure seem to be pissed off that this deal with Iran has worked so far. Why is that? Do people hate Obama that much that they would rather see us live in a more dangerous world than see him succeed? I really don't get it.
    I don't know if this brings us any closer to peace.

    The US has three countries listed as State Sponsors of Terrorism and Iran is still one of them and they are much better funded with their global economy back.

    And the Saudis are now talking about building their own nuclear program.

    (l will save the hijab law-enforced custom debate for another rainy day)
    So long as you include the Amish, Mennonite, and Orthodox Jewish women. Then we can talk.
    As soon as they start imprisoning US military we will! :tongue:
    What would happen to military from elsewhere if found in similar circumstances here?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,197
    mickeyrat said:

    Jason P said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    dignin said:

    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Jason P said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Jason P said:

    I don't believe the prisoner exchange was a condition in sanctions being lifted.

    It would set a bad precedent that a country could arrest Americans on trumped up charges to cut deals.

    The relationships forged between Kerry and Zarif led to the release. So no, I am not saying it was a condition, but it certainly helped pave the way. Conservatives lambasted Kerry and Obama about leaving behind the prisoners. But it's clear that there was a broader plan in place. Additionally the quick release of the naval crew likely had something to do with the relationship.
    It would be even worse for the US if the Navy Sailors were a bargaining chip to this exchange.

    The US has rescued Iran Navy sailors in the past and turned them back in under 48 hours because it is the right and just thing to do. It's pretty much the code of the mariners. And the US treated the Iranians fairly and didn't subject them to any custom that would violate our equality laws.

    image
    Oh my....the horror.
    If a conservative US state made this a requirement, you would be up in arms.

    I don't get it. Iran's conservatives make the US's conservatives look like a bunch of extras on Pee Wee's Playhouse yet those that tend to be liberal will gladly take Iran's side.
    Not the same thing. This is a straw man.

    Different country, different culture. The point is, it's their business not ours. I may not like their human rights record but that's for them to figure out.

    This whole thing about taking sides? Who here is on the side of Iran? I'm not on the side of Iran....I'm on the side of peace. This deal is our best shot.....and it's working.

    There are a lot of folks that sure seem to be pissed off that this deal with Iran has worked so far. Why is that? Do people hate Obama that much that they would rather see us live in a more dangerous world than see him succeed? I really don't get it.
    I don't know if this brings us any closer to peace.

    The US has three countries listed as State Sponsors of Terrorism and Iran is still one of them and they are much better funded with their global economy back.

    And the Saudis are now talking about building their own nuclear program.

    (l will save the hijab law-enforced custom debate for another rainy day)
    So long as you include the Amish, Mennonite, and Orthodox Jewish women. Then we can talk.
    As soon as they start imprisoning US military we will! :tongue:
    What would happen to military from elsewhere if found in similar circumstances here?
    Hmmm, let me guess... The US will hold a welcome party and offer then a green card without any questions asked....
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
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  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    BS, the Iranian deal with increased connection to the west actually helps Iranians such as this band. Iran has more to loose. Hey want western investment and western corporations and their money have influence. Good thing.

    Also the more intertwined societies are the more they become homogenous.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,393
    callen said:

    BS, the Iranian deal with increased connection to the west actually helps Iranians such as this band. Iran has more to loose. Hey want western investment and western corporations and their money have influence. Good thing.

    Also the more intertwined societies are the more they become homogenous.

    Obviously, you can't try to help Iran, you can only bomb them!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,954
    callen said:

    BS, the Iranian deal with increased connection to the west actually helps Iranians such as this band. Iran has more to loose. Hey want western investment and western corporations and their money have influence. Good thing.

    Also the more intertwined societies are the more they become homogenous.

    but

    but

    but


    i thought this deal was the worst deal even negotiated? i thought we lost because we never win??
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,424
    Well. Would you look at that. A solid beginning. Who'd a thunk it.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/reformists-leading-iran-parliament-vote-160227034528583.html
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,937
    HA..."reformists"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,754
    BS44325 said:

    HA..."reformists"

    Should we bomb them or evangelize them? If neither of those, then we should negotiate a deal with them, which we did.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Come to the conclusion humans need to hate. Need to have their tribe in battle with the other tribe.

    Must be learned though. Guess it starts young with pledge of allegiance and USA chant. Humans do make great trainable beings. Little more complicated than training a dog, but not much more.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,937
    callen said:

    Come to the conclusion humans need to hate. Need to have their tribe in battle with the other tribe.

    Must be learned though. Guess it starts young with pledge of allegiance and USA chant. Humans do make great trainable beings. Little more complicated than training a dog, but not much more.

    You call me a dog well that's fair enough...but I've never pledged allegiance or done a USA chant...just old fashioned Canadian public school education. We tend to be big on human rights.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,937
    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    HA..."reformists"

    Should we bomb them or evangelize them? If neither of those, then we should negotiate a deal with them, which we did.
    I didn't realize there were only three options. How could I be so obtuse?
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited February 2016
    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    Come to the conclusion humans need to hate. Need to have their tribe in battle with the other tribe.

    Must be learned though. Guess it starts young with pledge of allegiance and USA chant. Humans do make great trainable beings. Little more complicated than training a dog, but not much more.

    You call me a dog well that's fair enough...but I've never pledged allegiance or done a USA chant...just old fashioned Canadian public school education. We tend to be big on human rights.
    Didn't call you a dog. Compared relative ease in training humans compared to training a dog. Setting levels of tranability along with how animal we really are.

    But tell me as I have your attention, do you really want peace? What's your solutions? And please dont volunteer my tax money to solve this.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,937
    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    Come to the conclusion humans need to hate. Need to have their tribe in battle with the other tribe.

    Must be learned though. Guess it starts young with pledge of allegiance and USA chant. Humans do make great trainable beings. Little more complicated than training a dog, but not much more.

    You call me a dog well that's fair enough...but I've never pledged allegiance or done a USA chant...just old fashioned Canadian public school education. We tend to be big on human rights.
    Didn't call you a dog. Compared relative ease in training humans compared to training a dog. Setting levels of tranability along with how animal we really are.

    But tell me as I have your attention, do you really want peace? What's your solutions? And please dont volunteer my tax money to solve this.
    You don't have my attention.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    Come to the conclusion humans need to hate. Need to have their tribe in battle with the other tribe.

    Must be learned though. Guess it starts young with pledge of allegiance and USA chant. Humans do make great trainable beings. Little more complicated than training a dog, but not much more.

    You call me a dog well that's fair enough...but I've never pledged allegiance or done a USA chant...just old fashioned Canadian public school education. We tend to be big on human rights.
    Didn't call you a dog. Compared relative ease in training humans compared to training a dog. Setting levels of tranability along with how animal we really are.

    But tell me as I have your attention, do you really want peace? What's your solutions? And please dont volunteer my tax money to solve this.
    You don't have my attention.
    Oh contraire you replied. HA. May not have anything to counter but that's another thing.

    Go hate, know it feels good, but know it's you that ultimately pays the price.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,284
    Iran election: Reformists win all 30 Tehran seats

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35681250
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 24,293
    edited February 2016
    So trump wants to sell Iran misses? Imagine if Obama said what trump said?
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