Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

gimmesometruth27

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

Let s be fair, Iran has been stirring the pot since Carter.  

don't forget how we meddled with them and installed the shah after wwII.

mcgruff10

gimmesometruth27 said:

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

Let s be fair, Iran has been stirring the pot since Carter.  

don't forget how we meddled with them and installed the shah after wwII.

True but imo shit hit the fan after hostages were took because of what, the former leader went to the us to get cancer treatment?!

gimmesometruth27

well here we have it. another war started by a republican president that really did not have to do anything, as the iran nuclear deal was working.

dignin

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

Let s be fair, Iran has been stirring the pot since Carter.  

You need to understand the history. Think before Carter.

In 1953, the government of prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq was overthrown in a coup organized by the governments of the U.S. and the UK. Many Iranians argue that the coup and the subsequent U.S. support for the shah proved largely responsible for the shah's arbitrary rule, which led to the "deeply anti-American character" of the 1979 revolution.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Prime_Minister_Mossadeq_and_his_overthrow

mcgruff10

dignin said:

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

Let s be fair, Iran has been stirring the pot since Carter.  

You need to understand the history. Think before Carter.

In 1953, the government of prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq was overthrown in a coup organized by the governments of the U.S. and the UK. Many Iranians argue that the coup and the subsequent U.S. support for the shah proved largely responsible for the shah's arbitrary rule, which led to the "deeply anti-American character" of the 1979 revolution.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Prime_Minister_Mossadeq_and_his_overthrow

Excellent point   It s crazy how much history is brought up when discussing current events. Good stuff.   

mcgruff10

So in we have two sides, who have hated each other for decades, staring down at each other waiting for someone's move.  who's gonna be the bigger person and realize that war just isn't worth it ? This scenario reminds me of a book I used to use when teaching the Cold War: Dr. Seuss's "The Butter Battle Book."  The last page really comes to mind: 
"Grandpa, I shouted, Be careful oh gee.
Who's going to drop it?  Will you?  Or will he?"
"Be patient," said Grandpa. "We'll see, we shall see."

HughFreakingDillon

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

 when was the last time a country invaded the US under the guise of liberation just to control the region's oil supply, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, bragged "mission accomplished", and occupied that territory for a decade. 

just imagine if that happened. you'd be in the streets shouting at the top of you lungs too. 

Yeah but that was Iraq, not Iran. I agree with what dreams.  Pull the hell
out of the Middle East and let them sort out their own problems. 

it's all the same region. i don't blame anyone there for believing america is the real terrorists. and it's a little late to pull out now, when the US has created much of the problems that currently exist. 

Lerxst1992

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

 when was the last time a country invaded the US under the guise of liberation just to control the region's oil supply, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, bragged "mission accomplished", and occupied that territory for a decade. 

just imagine if that happened. you'd be in the streets shouting at the top of you lungs too. 

Yeah but that was Iraq, not Iran. I agree with what dreams.  Pull the hell
out of the Middle East and let them sort out their own problems. 

And maybe not assassinate people in their military. 

Let’s not pretend the guy was a Boy Scout.  

So?

Funny you're in here defending the act (of war). 

My god.

I ve actually been against this assassination since the beginning. RIF

But let's anyways make sure to point out that the guy who was assinateted was not a boy scout. 

Lol. sure jan.

I m not sure what your point is. Dude was a bad guy; Are you debating that?

To me, it’s irrelevant.  I think it was a strategic blunder caused, mostly, by not having a strategy. 

Agreed.  I m anxious to see trump s next move.  

Why? Either trump backs down or we risk an escalating air war. Rumors are 30 deaths at that air base. If trump retaliates, then Israel could get hit hard. Then what? Nuclear war? Where does this end? 

gimmesometruth27

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

 when was the last time a country invaded the US under the guise of liberation just to control the region's oil supply, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, bragged "mission accomplished", and occupied that territory for a decade. 

just imagine if that happened. you'd be in the streets shouting at the top of you lungs too. 

Yeah but that was Iraq, not Iran. I agree with what dreams.  Pull the hell
out of the Middle East and let them sort out their own problems. 

And maybe not assassinate people in their military. 

Let’s not pretend the guy was a Boy Scout.  

So?

Funny you're in here defending the act (of war). 

My god.

I ve actually been against this assassination since the beginning. RIF

But let's anyways make sure to point out that the guy who was assinateted was not a boy scout. 

Lol. sure jan.

I m not sure what your point is. Dude was a bad guy; Are you debating that?

To me, it’s irrelevant.  I think it was a strategic blunder caused, mostly, by not having a strategy. 

Agreed.  I m anxious to see trump s next move.  

spoiler alert.

trump will tweet. then we will retaliate and trump will call it the greatest. most tremendous military mission in the history of war.

mcgruff10

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

 when was the last time a country invaded the US under the guise of liberation just to control the region's oil supply, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, bragged "mission accomplished", and occupied that territory for a decade. 

just imagine if that happened. you'd be in the streets shouting at the top of you lungs too. 

Yeah but that was Iraq, not Iran. I agree with what dreams.  Pull the hell
out of the Middle East and let them sort out their own problems. 

it's all the same region. i don't blame anyone there for believing america is the real terrorists. and it's a little late to pull out now, when the US has created much of the problems that currently exist. 

There's definitely a lot of blame to go around.  

what dreams

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

I haven't ignored jack. I'm well aware of the bullshit the US has pulled in Iran and the oil industry. In the past year, I've read two different books by Iranian Americans about the revolution, and how anyone with brains got the hell out of that place while they could.

Yeah, that's right, our government isn't perfect, and they can have their damn oil as far as I'm concerned. Go solar, USA, and leave those idiots to drill oil we don't want or need. I have no problem with that at all. See what happens when nobody buys their damn oil because we've developed and lead the world in renewable energy. Absolutely bring that on.

But I'm not interested in living in a world where, as a female, I have to dress in a black sheet with nothing but an eye hole to see out of, or get stoned to death for walking down the street with without a male escort. All this false equivalency. Really? Go ahead, all of you and volunteer to move to to Iran if they're so worth defending. 

At this point, I absolutely hope our military bombs Tehren into the ground. We can't sit back and let these religious fanatics attack our embassy and our bases without retaliation. Those are American citizens living in those spaces, whether we like it or not. They are someone's children, husbands and wives, parents. We can't let Iran or any other country just kill them without defending them.

mrussel1

what dreams said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

I haven't ignored jack. I'm well aware of the bullshit the US has pulled in Iran and the oil industry. In the past year, I've read two different books by Iranian Americans about the revolution, and how anyone with brains got the hell out of that place while they could.

Yeah, that's right, our government isn't perfect, and they can have their damn oil as far as I'm concerned. Go solar, USA, and leave those idiots to drill oil we don't want or need. I have no problem with that at all. See what happens when nobody buys their damn oil because we've developed and lead the world in renewable energy. Absolutely bring that on.

But I'm not interested in living in a world where, as a female, I have to dress in a black sheet with nothing but an eye hole to see out of, or get stoned to death for walking down the street with without a male escort. All this false equivalency. Really? Go ahead, all of you and volunteer to move to to Iran if they're so worth defending. 

At this point, I absolutely hope our military bombs Tehren into the ground. We can't sit back and let these religious fanatics attack our embassy and our bases without retaliation. Those are American citizens living in those spaces, whether we like it or not. They are someone's children, husbands and wives, parents. We can't let Iran or any other country just kill them without defending them.

Im sorry but that was a paper attack.  There were no casualties.  The assassination was disproportionate in scale.  I wonder how many women and children will be killed in Tehran as we bomb it to the ground.  I guess that's better than living in a black sheet? Or maybe, just maybe there's a solution in between. 

what dreams

So what's an appropriate retaliation? A bunch of Americans jump the fence of an Iranian embassy somewhere and . . . Hmmm, what's the purpose of trying to break into an embassy? Host a dinner party? 

What do you suggest is middle ground? How do you suppose we reason with a country full of people who stampede each other to death to glorify their martyr on his way to a heaven full of virgins? 

I'm totally okay with my unpopular opinion and the consequences of my preferred action. Either get out, or go all in. Sitting there like targets and taking shots is not good for America's future anywhere around the globe, in my view.

mrussel1

what dreams said:

So what's an appropriate retaliation? A bunch of Americans jump the fence of an Iranian embassy somewhere and . . . Hmmm, what's the purpose of trying to break into an embassy? Host a dinner party? 

What do you suggest is middle ground? How do you suppose we reason with a country full of people who stampede each other to death to glorify their martyr on his way to a heaven full of virgins? 

I'm totally okay with my unpopular opinion and the consequences of my preferred action. Either get out, or go all in. Sitting there like targets and taking shots is not good for America's future anywhere around the globe, in my view.

First, as you know, the embassy 'attack' was in response to the depot attacks launched by the US military on the 29th.  Either way, the assassination was clearly disproportionate.  Had Iran attacked our Brigadier General for the depot attack, that would also be an over-escalation on their part.  Iran's 'attack' was zero casualties.  Second, more importantly, the last three years has been nothing but a series of escalations by this administration, starting with reasserting sanctions and pulling out of the JCPOA, when Iran was by all accounts honoring the treaty.  The admin had no plan for a new nuclear treaty, no allies in Europe or anywhere in the world.  This whole thing is so foolish and without an end game, it's sickening.  

mrussel1

And you're right, they stampede each other to death.. I'll give you that.  They're just like those heathens at Roskilde, or those heretics at the Who concert in Cincinnati.  I mean, only lunatics could possibly have a stampede that takes a human life.  Kill em all, let God sort them out.  

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

So what's an appropriate retaliation? A bunch of Americans jump the fence of an Iranian embassy somewhere and . . . Hmmm, what's the purpose of trying to break into an embassy? Host a dinner party? 

What do you suggest is middle ground? How do you suppose we reason with a country full of people who stampede each other to death to glorify their martyr on his way to a heaven full of virgins? 

I'm totally okay with my unpopular opinion and the consequences of my preferred action. Either get out, or go all in. Sitting there like targets and taking shots is not good for America's future anywhere around the globe, in my view.

First, as you know, the embassy 'attack' was in response to the depot attacks launched by the US military on the 29th.  Either way, the assassination was clearly disproportionate.  Had Iran attacked our Brigadier General for the depot attack, that would also be an over-escalation on their part.  Iran's 'attack' was zero casualties.  Second, more importantly, the last three years has been nothing but a series of escalations by this administration, starting with reasserting sanctions and pulling out of the JCPOA, when Iran was by all accounts honoring the treaty.  The admin had no plan for a new nuclear treaty, no allies in Europe or anywhere in the world.  This whole thing is so foolish and without an end game, it's sickening.  

Would this even be a conversation if the guy was any other nationality?  

mrussel1

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

So what's an appropriate retaliation? A bunch of Americans jump the fence of an Iranian embassy somewhere and . . . Hmmm, what's the purpose of trying to break into an embassy? Host a dinner party? 

What do you suggest is middle ground? How do you suppose we reason with a country full of people who stampede each other to death to glorify their martyr on his way to a heaven full of virgins? 

I'm totally okay with my unpopular opinion and the consequences of my preferred action. Either get out, or go all in. Sitting there like targets and taking shots is not good for America's future anywhere around the globe, in my view.

First, as you know, the embassy 'attack' was in response to the depot attacks launched by the US military on the 29th.  Either way, the assassination was clearly disproportionate.  Had Iran attacked our Brigadier General for the depot attack, that would also be an over-escalation on their part.  Iran's 'attack' was zero casualties.  Second, more importantly, the last three years has been nothing but a series of escalations by this administration, starting with reasserting sanctions and pulling out of the JCPOA, when Iran was by all accounts honoring the treaty.  The admin had no plan for a new nuclear treaty, no allies in Europe or anywhere in the world.  This whole thing is so foolish and without an end game, it's sickening.  

Would this even be a conversation if the guy was any other nationality?  

I don't understand..

gimmesometruth27

what dreams said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

When was the last time a million Americans gathered in a square to shout "Death to [Name Your Country]!"  Never. Our government is not perfect. Much of our foreign policy is whacked. But by and large, we are a generous people who would never whip ourselves into a stampede over the death of a general. Quite simplistically, and I know unrealistically, I would love it if we pulled out of Iraq and let those people have that desert all to themselves to do whatever they want. Good riddance, I would say. The Middle East has been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I just can't understand or sympathize with the point of view of a people, a culture, who hatefully gather to shout "Death to America." Fuck that. God help us all. We've got a lunatic president leading us into a war against a country also led by lunatics. 

You have completely ignored the US history in Iran.

I haven't ignored jack. I'm well aware of the bullshit the US has pulled in Iran and the oil industry. In the past year, I've read two different books by Iranian Americans about the revolution, and how anyone with brains got the hell out of that place while they could.

Yeah, that's right, our government isn't perfect, and they can have their damn oil as far as I'm concerned. Go solar, USA, and leave those idiots to drill oil we don't want or need. I have no problem with that at all. See what happens when nobody buys their damn oil because we've developed and lead the world in renewable energy. Absolutely bring that on.

But I'm not interested in living in a world where, as a female, I have to dress in a black sheet with nothing but an eye hole to see out of, or get stoned to death for walking down the street with without a male escort. All this false equivalency. Really? Go ahead, all of you and volunteer to move to to Iran if they're so worth defending. 

At this point, I absolutely hope our military bombs Tehren into the ground. We can't sit back and let these religious fanatics attack our embassy and our bases without retaliation. Those are American citizens living in those spaces, whether we like it or not. They are someone's children, husbands and wives, parents. We can't let Iran or any other country just kill them without defending them.

yeah, so we should let our religious fanatics in turn bomb tehran to the ground. listen to yourself.

gimmesometruth27

they just announced that trump will not address the nation tonight.

my guess is he is probably waiting on his marching orders from putin.

or it will take him until 9 am to get his hair back on straight.

gimmesometruth27

maybe iran can hack trump's twitter account and deactivate it? win win for everyone.