Robin Williams: Depression Alone Rarely Causes Suicide

backseatLover12

Interesting.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/robin-williams-depression-alone-rarely-causes-suicide/

Several factors, such as severity of symptoms, family history, substance abuse and a “mixed” depressive and manic state may combine to increase the risk for suicide

benjs

Part of me thinks that it's also possessing a razor sharp mind in a world like today's. As a comic, Robin Williams exposed the idiocies in the world on a regular basis with astute analyses of political events: and right now, there are an overwhelming amount of global catastrophes that I'm convinced could bring a long-lasting and debilitating sadness to even the soundest of minds. Combine that with those factors you and the article mentioned and, as you said, risk is amplified significantly. At the end of the day, it's very hard to contribute logic to something that removes all logic from your brain. You know there's good out there, but the bad in the world is all that's in your field of vision.

PJ_Soul

Apparently his recent heart surgery exacerbated his depression, and this is supposedly very common for people who suffer from depression. Major medical issues can make it so much worse because of several factors, including chemical.

dancinacrossthewater

For sure family history, particularly physical/emotional/sexual abuse, play a huge role.

brianlux

Interesting comments in the article about manic depression (I still call it that- It was good enough for Jimi, it's good enough for me).

Again, the opening up about depression and mental illness is so huge. Really glad to see a lot of openness going on regarding these subjects!

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

Apparently his recent heart surgery exacerbated his depression, and this is supposedly very common for people who suffer from depression. Major medical issues can make it so much worse because of several factors, including chemical.

I saw a doctor interviewed who essentially said the open heart surgery, his depression and substance addiction can lead to suicide ... certainly an eye opener.

backseatLover12

I thought that maybe starting this thread would get people talking about depression and suicide more, opening it up so it's not a "sad" subject to talk about. It's a start at least. Thanks to those replying. I believe Robin was desperate for the pain to go away...

rr165892

Although his 50 or so movies have grossed like 5 billion $. Some have reported a financial issue with the sale of a huge Napa Valley estate(30 mil) was weighing heavy on him.That with a dark side and heart surgery could all be part of it.Damn shame.RW will be missed.

benjs

backseatLover12 said:

I thought that maybe starting this thread would get people talking about depression and suicide more, opening it up so it's not a "sad" subject to talk about. It's a start at least. Thanks to those replying. I believe Robin was desperate for the pain to go away...

The dialogue about suicide and depression has definitely been a silver lining in all of this.

From my own experiences as well as some close friends of mine, there's a cycle of helplessness: you feel alone, but you don't feel that anyone will understand (and often they won't: they'll say "cheer up", as if it was a conscious decision to be sad). So you seek solitude, and then you really feel alone. You don't want to reach out, because your depression has made you feel stripped of the right to be cared for, so you stay to yourself. When someone reaches out to you, you get drained, because to put on a happy face would require such effort, and the smile would be such a farce in comparison to how you feel. The guilt that comes as a result of being catered to specially also becomes insurmountable, so you retreat. Now you feel like you've been a burden to the people you care about most, and your energy is stripped by virtue of just existing publicly, and through all of this: you're still struggling just to find one happy thought to hold onto, something that will convince you that this fight is worth fighting - but that happy thought is like a dim candlelight, miles away from you, in an ocean of darkness surrounding it as far as you can see. So where's the escape from misery?

At the end of the day, one thing's certain in my mind: Robin Williams didn't kill himself - depression killed him.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

I thought that maybe starting this thread would get people talking about depression and suicide more, opening it up so it's not a "sad" subject to talk about. It's a start at least. Thanks to those replying. I believe Robin was desperate for the pain to go away...

I think it will always be a sad thing to talk about, just like it's sad to talk about other debilitating illnesses and horrific life circumstances. But "sad topic" certainly shouldn't = "don't talk about it".
Robin Williams aside, it's very clear that our society needs to deal with mental illness in a MUCH better way. Unfortunately, things like his suicide actually help the whole issue of better handling mental illness in society. It brings more awareness and openness. Ir would be nice if famous people didn't have to kill themselves for this to happen, but that's reality.

Kat

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2014/08/14/robin-williams-was-battling-parkinsons-disease/14062707/

hedonist

Kat said:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2014/08/14/robin-williams-was-battling-parkinsons-disease/14062707/

As I said on another thread, holy hell.

Such weight to bear.

backseatLover12

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

I thought that maybe starting this thread would get people talking about depression and suicide more, opening it up so it's not a "sad" subject to talk about. It's a start at least. Thanks to those replying. I believe Robin was desperate for the pain to go away...

I think it will always be a sad thing to talk about, just like it's sad to talk about other debilitating illnesses and horrific life circumstances. But "sad topic" certainly shouldn't = "don't talk about it".
Robin Williams aside, it's very clear that our society needs to deal with mental illness in a MUCH better way. Unfortunately, things like his suicide actually help the whole issue of better handling mental illness in society. It brings more awareness and openness. Ir would be nice if famous people didn't have to kill themselves for this to happen, but that's reality.

I don't see talking about debilitating illnesses and horrific life circumstances sad though. Talking about it brings awareness and even comfort to those and their family affected by it. I had a "horrific life circumstance" a few years ago, and friends dropped like flies, and people were too scared to talk to me, even family, doctors and nurses. Where does that get anyone? Like you said, it needs to be talked about, not only in order to heal but in understanding.

I admit, I don't know a whole lot about depression, even from my circumstance, I didn't suffer as badly as people and professionals projected. I do know about Parkinson's, my uncle had it and died years later from it.

I do feel that people (not here) are excusing Williams for committing suicide. It's a touchy subject. But we should not romanticize suicide either. There's no shame in mental illness and there's no shame in asking for help.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

I thought that maybe starting this thread would get people talking about depression and suicide more, opening it up so it's not a "sad" subject to talk about. It's a start at least. Thanks to those replying. I believe Robin was desperate for the pain to go away...

I think it will always be a sad thing to talk about, just like it's sad to talk about other debilitating illnesses and horrific life circumstances. But "sad topic" certainly shouldn't = "don't talk about it".
Robin Williams aside, it's very clear that our society needs to deal with mental illness in a MUCH better way. Unfortunately, things like his suicide actually help the whole issue of better handling mental illness in society. It brings more awareness and openness. Ir would be nice if famous people didn't have to kill themselves for this to happen, but that's reality.

I don't see talking about debilitating illnesses and horrific life circumstances sad though. Talking about it brings awareness and even comfort to those and their family affected by it. I had a "horrific life circumstance" a few years ago, and friends dropped like flies, and people were too scared to talk to me, even family, doctors and nurses. Where does that get anyone? Like you said, it needs to be talked about, not only in order to heal but in understanding.

I admit, I don't know a whole lot about depression, even from my circumstance, I didn't suffer as badly as people and professionals projected. I do know about Parkinson's, my uncle had it and died years later from it.

I do feel that people (not here) are excusing Williams for committing suicide. It's a touchy subject. But we should not romanticize suicide either. There's no shame in mental illness and there's no shame in asking for help.

Yeah, talking about it brings awareness and comfort. But it's also sad to think about people struggling, no? It is for me. I feel sad when I see people in pain or having a tough time through no fault of their own. That sucks. :( I guess you're assuming that people don't want to talk about important things if they are also sad things?

My aunt is dying of Parkinsons right now (I am not close with her - she lives in England). It's very sad. I have a friend who is suffering from depression which was exacerbated by postnatal syndrome. Things like that DO need to be discussed so that support is more available... but it's also sad that my friend has been struggling like this. :(

I didn't personally get the impression that anyone is romanticizing suicide here. But I would agree that they're excusing RW from blame re his suicide. They're blaming it on his mental illness rather than on him. I think that's reasonable myself. If you don't then I would agree that you don't know a lot about depression. I believe that people who actually haven't really experience depression (or anxiety disorder) CAN'T fully understand it, because it's impossible to relate to how completely uncontrollable certain things things are for those who suffer from it. To those who haven't experienced it, it seems like some of those things MUST be controllable. It seems impossible that they wouldn't be. But it's true. They're not.

lukin2006

As many of us have be seeing and reading the news this week it's becoming more and more apparent that RW had an awful lot going on with substance abuse issue, open heart surgery, deep depression and then being diagnosed Parkinson's ... Just having one of those issue can be burdensome, having all those issues...all that can really be said is hopefully he is at peace.

lukin2006

And another thought ... Anyone anywhere judging is just wrong...

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

And another thought ... Anyone anywhere judging is just wrong...

So true... and hard to believe anyone would.

lukin2006

Look up Gene Simmons comments ... Just wrong on so many levels. Whatever happened to sympathy.

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

Look up Gene Simmons comments ... Just wrong on so many levels. Whatever happened to sympathy.

I saw that on fb. So very, very wrong!

norm

Henry Rollins just posted this...usually i agree with him but not in this case at all...but hopefully, the more we talk about depression the more understanding can come from it

Days after Robin Williams died, I kept seeing his face on the Internet. His death seemed to have a momentum of its own. It went from a sad death of a famous person to “a nation mourns” pitch, which I didn’t quite understand. Sites such as Huffington Post swim in their own brand of hyperbole. They call it news and culture, but often, it’s just content.

I understand why people feel Williams’ loss so intensely. His talent as an actor is not in dispute. His performance in Good Will Hunting is unimpeachable. I wonder if he was tapping into his own deep trench of personal pain to deliver some of those scenes. It was brave and excellent work.

The more you think about it, the more you remember one great performance after another. Good Morning Vietnam is a favorite of mine.

When someone with this level of exposure dies in this way, it is confusing. An Oscar-winning actor, well-paid, with a career that most performers could only dream of — how could anyone so well regarded and seemingly fortunate have as much as even a single bad day, much less a life so unendurable that it has to be voluntarily voided?

On more than one of my USO tours, Robin Williams had been on the same stage a few days before me. That’s all I needed to know about him. As far as I was concerned, he was a good man.

But it’s here where I step off the train. I am sure some will strongly disagree with what I’m about to say. And I also understand that his personal struggles were quite real. I can’t argue with that.

But I simply cannot understand how any parent could kill themselves.

How in the hell could you possibly do that to your children? I don’t care how well adjusted your kid might be — choosing to kill yourself, rather than to be there for that child, is every shade of awful, traumatic and confusing. I think as soon as you have children, you waive your right to take your own life. No matter what mistakes you make in life, it should be your utmost goal not to traumatize your kids. So, you don’t kill yourself.

I know some people will disagree. And I get that you can’t understand anyone else’s torment. All that “I feel your pain” stuff is bullshit and disrespectful. You can appreciate it, listen and support someone as best you can, but you can’t understand it. Depression is so personal and so unique to each of us that when you’re in its teeth, you think you invented it. You can understand your own, but that’s it. When you are severely depressed, it can be more isolating than anything else you have ever experienced. In trying to make someone understand, you can only speak in approximation. You are truly on your own.

Everyone handles their emotional vicissitudes in their own ways. I am no doctor, but I think the brain is always looking for a sense of balance and normal function so the body can operate efficiently. Some people medicate accordingly, in an attempt to stay somewhat even. That pursuit can lead one down some dark paths. Someone who is an addict might not be an “addict” in the pejorative sense but merely trying to medicate and balance themselves.

Many years ago, I lived in Silver Lake with a housemate who suffered from severe bouts of depression. When she wasn’t in her small bedroom with the lights off, crying for hours, she was bright and hilarious. Anywhere we went, we laughed our asses off. She fought her depression with everything from bike rides to drugs, prescribed and otherwise. Years after the last time I saw her, I guess she could no longer keep up the battle and killed herself. No one who knew her was surprised. When she was in her deepest misery, she was unrecognizable.

The hardest part about being around her was you knew there was nothing you could do to help.

I get it, but then again, maybe I don’t.

When someone negates their existence, they cancel themselves out in my mind. I have many records, books and films featuring people who have taken their own lives, and I regard them all with a bit of distain. When someone commits this act, he or she is out of my analog world. I know they existed, yet they have nullified their existence because they willfully removed themselves from life. They were real but now they are not.

I no longer take this person seriously. I may be able to appreciate what he or she did artistically but it’s impossible to feel bad for them. Their life wasn’t cut short — it was purposely abandoned. It’s hard to feel bad when the person did what they wanted to. It sucks they are gone, of course, but it’s the decision they made. I have to respect it and move on.

A few years ago, a guy I’d known for many years hanged himself in a basement. Weeks later, I went to the spot and picked up bits of plastic coating from the cord he used, which were on the floor after he was cut down. I liked the guy, but all I could think of then is all I can think of now — the drawings his kids had made that were pasted up on the walls of his kitchen.

Almost 40,000 people a year kill themselves in America, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In my opinion, that is 40,000 people who blew it.

Fuck suicide. Life isn’t anything but what you make it. For all the people who walked from the grocery store back to their house, only to be met by a robber who shot them in the head for nothing — you gotta hang in there.

I have life by the neck and drag it along. Rarely does it move fast enough. Raw Power forever.

hedonist

When someone negates their existence, they cancel themselves out in my mind. I have many records, books and films featuring people who have taken their own lives, and I regard them all with a bit of distain. When someone commits this act, he or she is out of my analog world. I know they existed, yet they have nullified their existence because they willfully removed themselves from life. They were real but now they are not.

I no longer take this person seriously. I may be able to appreciate what he or she did artistically but it’s impossible to feel bad for them. Their life wasn’t cut short — it was purposely abandoned. It’s hard to feel bad when the person did what they wanted to. It sucks they are gone, of course, but it’s the decision they made. I have to respect it and move on.

Damn. Certainly can (and does) say whatever he wants but this is harsh. I'm glad I don't feel this way.

benjs

norm said:

Henry Rollins just posted this...usually i agree with him but not in this case at all...but hopefully, the more we talk about depression the more understanding can come from it

Days after Robin Williams died, I kept seeing his face on the Internet. His death seemed to have a momentum of its own. It went from a sad death of a famous person to “a nation mourns” pitch, which I didn’t quite understand. Sites such as Huffington Post swim in their own brand of hyperbole. They call it news and culture, but often, it’s just content.

I understand why people feel Williams’ loss so intensely. His talent as an actor is not in dispute. His performance in Good Will Hunting is unimpeachable. I wonder if he was tapping into his own deep trench of personal pain to deliver some of those scenes. It was brave and excellent work.

The more you think about it, the more you remember one great performance after another. Good Morning Vietnam is a favorite of mine.

When someone with this level of exposure dies in this way, it is confusing. An Oscar-winning actor, well-paid, with a career that most performers could only dream of — how could anyone so well regarded and seemingly fortunate have as much as even a single bad day, much less a life so unendurable that it has to be voluntarily voided?

On more than one of my USO tours, Robin Williams had been on the same stage a few days before me. That’s all I needed to know about him. As far as I was concerned, he was a good man.

But it’s here where I step off the train. I am sure some will strongly disagree with what I’m about to say. And I also understand that his personal struggles were quite real. I can’t argue with that.

But I simply cannot understand how any parent could kill themselves.

How in the hell could you possibly do that to your children? I don’t care how well adjusted your kid might be — choosing to kill yourself, rather than to be there for that child, is every shade of awful, traumatic and confusing. I think as soon as you have children, you waive your right to take your own life. No matter what mistakes you make in life, it should be your utmost goal not to traumatize your kids. So, you don’t kill yourself.

I know some people will disagree. And I get that you can’t understand anyone else’s torment. All that “I feel your pain” stuff is bullshit and disrespectful. You can appreciate it, listen and support someone as best you can, but you can’t understand it. Depression is so personal and so unique to each of us that when you’re in its teeth, you think you invented it. You can understand your own, but that’s it. When you are severely depressed, it can be more isolating than anything else you have ever experienced. In trying to make someone understand, you can only speak in approximation. You are truly on your own.

Everyone handles their emotional vicissitudes in their own ways. I am no doctor, but I think the brain is always looking for a sense of balance and normal function so the body can operate efficiently. Some people medicate accordingly, in an attempt to stay somewhat even. That pursuit can lead one down some dark paths. Someone who is an addict might not be an “addict” in the pejorative sense but merely trying to medicate and balance themselves.

Many years ago, I lived in Silver Lake with a housemate who suffered from severe bouts of depression. When she wasn’t in her small bedroom with the lights off, crying for hours, she was bright and hilarious. Anywhere we went, we laughed our asses off. She fought her depression with everything from bike rides to drugs, prescribed and otherwise. Years after the last time I saw her, I guess she could no longer keep up the battle and killed herself. No one who knew her was surprised. When she was in her deepest misery, she was unrecognizable.

The hardest part about being around her was you knew there was nothing you could do to help.

I get it, but then again, maybe I don’t.

When someone negates their existence, they cancel themselves out in my mind. I have many records, books and films featuring people who have taken their own lives, and I regard them all with a bit of distain. When someone commits this act, he or she is out of my analog world. I know they existed, yet they have nullified their existence because they willfully removed themselves from life. They were real but now they are not.

I no longer take this person seriously. I may be able to appreciate what he or she did artistically but it’s impossible to feel bad for them. Their life wasn’t cut short — it was purposely abandoned. It’s hard to feel bad when the person did what they wanted to. It sucks they are gone, of course, but it’s the decision they made. I have to respect it and move on.

A few years ago, a guy I’d known for many years hanged himself in a basement. Weeks later, I went to the spot and picked up bits of plastic coating from the cord he used, which were on the floor after he was cut down. I liked the guy, but all I could think of then is all I can think of now — the drawings his kids had made that were pasted up on the walls of his kitchen.

Almost 40,000 people a year kill themselves in America, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In my opinion, that is 40,000 people who blew it.

Fuck suicide. Life isn’t anything but what you make it. For all the people who walked from the grocery store back to their house, only to be met by a robber who shot them in the head for nothing — you gotta hang in there.

I have life by the neck and drag it along. Rarely does it move fast enough. Raw Power forever.

Thanks for posting this, norm. I disagree with Rollins as well, and as someone who's been through depression, I know that Robin Williams didn't kill himself, nor did Rollins' depressed friend.

Depression hanged Rollins' friend, just as depression hanged Robin Williams. When someone dies of cancer, we say they died of cancer. When someone drinks too much even, we say they died as a byproduct of alcoholism. We call cancer a disease, we call alcoholism a disease, and we call depression a disease: yet someone dies of cancer, someone dies from alcoholism, or someone commits suicide. Wait, what?

Depression doesn't lead to suicide in the typical sense of the word: depression, like cancer, is a disease which is potentially lethal. One takes over your body and destroys it, the other takes over your mind and aims to destroy you. If one is to recognize depression as a real disease - he or she should also recognize the ramifications of it too. In my opinion, depression killed Robin Williams - not Robin Williams.

norm

totally agree, ben

Last-12-Exit

I somewhat agree with Henry. Recently, I had to take a very close person to me to the doctor because this.person wouldnt come .out of the bedroom and was crying for 4 straight days. I had to drag this person to the doctor. This person hates me for that. But this person is depressd. How bad? I have no clue. I've never dealt with this before. Point being, regardless of the demons in yourhead, don't you have to deal with it for your kids? I know the mind is a powerful thing and make u do things most of us would never think of, but your children are supposed to be what pulls u out of this right?

norm

no, nothing can "pull you out of it"...i wish i could explain it...i've spent the last hour trying to on facebook lol you can't ignore it, push it aside...it's who you are for lack of a better saying...it isn't rational and henry is looking at it from a rational mind

Last-12-Exit

norm said:

no, nothing can "pull you out of it"...i wish i could explain it...i've spent the last hour trying to on facebook lol you can't ignore it, push it aside...it's who you are for lack of a better saying...it isn't rational and henry is looking at it from a rational mind

True. I understand that. This person has tried to get me to understand but I can't. I am so worried about this person. That's why I took this person to the doctor. I'm scared to death.

norm

well you did the right thing...and hopefully your friend can get the help they need...it's a very scary disease and one that shouldn't taken as lightly...your friend has a good friend in you

hedonist

Agreed with norm. Good going, Last-12.

Last-12-Exit

norm said:

well you did the right thing...and hopefully your friend can get the help they need...it's a very scary disease and one that shouldn't taken as lightly...your friend has a good friend in you

This person just texted me 5 minutes ago and said they are still mad at me for taking them to the doctor. I know it had to be done. I don't know how to even talk to this person now. How do I come off without being argumentative? You can't just nod your head and smile when you know they aren't in their right mind. This is all so new to me and I'm trying to handle it correctly but I just don't know .how.

norm

there are people better trained than me to help you because i don't have an answer

just remember, they are not really mad at you....it's the disease that's "mad at you"...you are doing the right thing even though your friend doesn't know it yet...talk to thier doctors and see if they can help you...and good luck

benjs

Last-12-Exit said:

norm said:

well you did the right thing...and hopefully your friend can get the help they need...it's a very scary disease and one that shouldn't taken as lightly...your friend has a good friend in you

This person just texted me 5 minutes ago and said they are still mad at me for taking them to the doctor. I know it had to be done. I don't know how to even talk to this person now. How do I come off without being argumentative? You can't just nod your head and smile when you know they aren't in their right mind. This is all so new to me and I'm trying to handle it correctly but I just don't know .how.

Having been on both sides here (delivering a helping hand to someone with depression, and being depressed), there is rarely a 'right' thing to do, just a 'less wrong' thing to do, and often that has to do with the fact that entering a depression strips you of the person you were before, and redresses you in a foreign and typically irrational form, where the basic rules of logic (if this then that) may cease to come into play.

My first advice would be to read Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness by William Styron. It is a relatively short read, and is the most accurate depiction of what living with depression is like from what I've seen available (https://archive.org/details/DarknessVisiblewilliamStyron). Depression Quest (www.depressionquest.com) is a more recent and interactive game that tries to leave you immersed in that depressed life, and also worth going through if you have the time.

In addition to this (and some will frown upon this), another thing that I've tried is to tell a white lie about the depression you yourself are developing (whether it's there or not). Every depressed person that I've known has been deeply astute and aware of their surroundings, with a great level of empathy. Horribly enough, when I went through my funks, I found solace in misery around me, and to witness happiness was absolutely crushing: it left me envious of something that I perceived as literally unattainable. Many times, the only thing that kept me going was that I was able to temporarily ignore my own pain, in order to help someone recover from theirs. When I was able to succeed at that, it was empowering, and really the best medicine I ever found. I guess you could 'zoom out' and say that it probably wasn't 'helping someone develop happiness' that mattered: it was serving a purpose. If your friend can be of any minuscule use to you - painting a fence, watering plants, whatever - let him or her know. To know that he or she is needed or wanted will probably provide great relief.

I never tried it, and the willingness of a person to actually go through with this will vary, but one of my best friends who suffered with depression went to group therapy. She found it helped her, not for anything that was spoken, but to help her recognize that as alone as she felt - this notion that no one in the world could ever understand this hopeless and endless misery - she actually wasn't: there were actually other souls out there who understood what she talked about.

Finally, as hard as it is, logic is not necessarily present when dealing with someone depression. You can say "people love you and love your presence, so we want you to get healthy", but as someone with depression, you might hear "I'm letting them down by not being healthy and I can't help it, I hate this". You can say "We all miss you! Come out with us!", but what might be heard is "I'm so pathetic, look at this, they have to grovel to get me to leave my house". As trying as it is to have depression, to cope with and help someone with depression can often be equally torturous, so be careful, and be sure to be aware of your own happiness levels.