America's Gun Violence

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  • i_lov_iti_lov_it Perth, Western AustraliaPosts: 3,342
    brianlux said:

    Since being assaulted and talking to a few people about it, I've hear a lot about guns recently:

    One person said "I wish that would happen to me. I carry and there would be one less punk on the streets."

    Another said, "I'm thinking about carrying. I never would have said that a few years ago."

    And another, "I'd have shot him [the one who assaulted me, but there were four in his gang]. I always carry when I'm on my motorcycle"

    These are all people I respect in one way or another but only one of them would I feel confident might have gotten out of the situation with a gun and only because that one person is highly trained. I was the one who was assaulted (and two other people who are close to me were in the car) and I can tell you this: we all got out alive and fairly unscathed (except me and I'm ok now). I used my head (even after having it punched hard) and did what it took to get us out of there. If I had used a hand gun people would probably be dead. There were three of us and four of them. Who knows how many guns would have been blazing? Who knows which of us would have died?

    One other person I talked to is registered to carry a hand gun and I asked that person, "Would you have used a gun in that instance." They said, "No, you did just the right things."

    More guns= more death and it's not always the bad guy who ends up dead. I don't see more guns being the answer.

    The way I see it, in our society we have a major problem with violence in general. Would having more guns change that? I'm not so sure.

    Well Said Brian.

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 6,527
    brianlux said:

    Since being assaulted and talking to a few people about it, I've hear a lot about guns recently:

    One person said "I wish that would happen to me. I carry and there would be one less punk on the streets."

    Another said, "I'm thinking about carrying. I never would have said that a few years ago."

    And another, "I'd have shot him [the one who assaulted me, but there were four in his gang]. I always carry when I'm on my motorcycle"

    These are all people I respect in one way or another but only one of them would I feel confident might have gotten out of the situation with a gun and only because that one person is highly trained. I was the one who was assaulted (and two other people who are close to me were in the car) and I can tell you this: we all got out alive and fairly unscathed (except me and I'm ok now). I used my head (even after having it punched hard) and did what it took to get us out of there. If I had used a hand gun people would probably be dead. There were three of us and four of them. Who knows how many guns would have been blazing? Who knows which of us would have died?

    One other person I talked to is registered to carry a hand gun and I asked that person, "Would you have used a gun in that instance." They said, "No, you did just the right things."

    More guns= more death and it's not always the bad guy who ends up dead. I don't see more guns being the answer.

    The way I see it, in our society we have a major problem with violence in general. Would having more guns change that? I'm not so sure.

    totally agree...

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  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    I have a CCP and other then the range hope to never have a need to draw.But when I think of what worries me it is definitely not others with carry permits.I know they have all been checked and cleared and practice responsible ownership for the most part.Its the criminal or "off" person who I worry about.Imo no amount of gun control or government involvement is going to keep them from inflicting harm and doing damage if the really want to.Its never been the guns it's the people.I do know that if I had to protect my loved ones I would rather have the security of a firearm then a bat ,pocket knife and a whistle.Each to their own though.I rarely carry even though I can,but I like having it when hiking,biking with my dogs out on trails or in remote areas.just my two cents
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,200
    edited July 2014
    brianlux said:

    Since being assaulted and talking to a few people about it, I've hear a lot about guns recently:

    One person said "I wish that would happen to me. I carry and there would be one less punk on the streets."

    Another said, "I'm thinking about carrying. I never would have said that a few years ago."

    And another, "I'd have shot him [the one who assaulted me, but there were four in his gang]. I always carry when I'm on my motorcycle"

    These are all people I respect in one way or another but only one of them would I feel confident might have gotten out of the situation with a gun and only because that one person is highly trained. I was the one who was assaulted (and two other people who are close to me were in the car) and I can tell you this: we all got out alive and fairly unscathed (except me and I'm ok now). I used my head (even after having it punched hard) and did what it took to get us out of there. If I had used a hand gun people would probably be dead. There were three of us and four of them. Who knows how many guns would have been blazing? Who knows which of us would have died?

    One other person I talked to is registered to carry a hand gun and I asked that person, "Would you have used a gun in that instance." They said, "No, you did just the right things."

    More guns= more death and it's not always the bad guy who ends up dead. I don't see more guns being the answer.

    The way I see it, in our society we have a major problem with violence in general. Would having more guns change that? I'm not so sure.

    I completely agree with you brain... I think the main problem with the gun violence in the US isn't the amount of guns on the streets, although they are a mayor factor. It's the guns in your heads.... So many of the people you've spoken, see gun violence as the solution, and these are the decent folks, I don't think it's strange the assaulter thinks in the same way.. In gun violence.

    Gun laws can be a first step in changing how your society values guns...
    Post edited by Aafke on
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?
  • unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,112

    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.
    It's true, unsung, we keep hearing this over and over. Obviously gun laws are not working in Chicago but does that mean they don't work elsewhere. Besides what we need more than laws (not that they can't help) is a new state of the American Mind about guns and violence and a movement toward cooperation, better education, social justice, reduced poverty, better understanding, working together and L-U-V!

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  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,200
    Yep, that's what I was trying to say, take the gun out of the American head... There are a lot of other ways to protect yourself and your loved ones.... If you are willing to try them.
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
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  • a5pja5pj Hershey PAPosts: 3,099
    brianlux said:




    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.
    It's true, unsung, we keep hearing this over and over. Obviously gun laws are not working in Chicago but does that mean they don't work elsewhere. Besides what we need more than laws (not that they can't help) is a new state of the American Mind about guns and violence and a movement toward cooperation, better education, social justice, reduced poverty, better understanding, working together and L-U-V!

    Well put, look at what they did in Australia and how few mass shootings there are now.

    And in Chicago the problem is not the laws, it's the enforcement of the laws as Unsung has said himself. People are bringing in guns because they get across the border with them and get to gangs hands. People using guns and getting a slap on the hand, but you can't keep them all in prison right... I don't know anymore but what we have isn't working.

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  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697

    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.
    How does a states demographic make up ,impact what laws should and shouldn't be enforced or enacted upon?I assume CT laws and say Georgia's would cater to a different demographic and people would view them as either too restrictive or to lenient based on the state.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,876
    edited July 2014
    This topic has got to be getting annoying for the anti-gun nuts. I think some people seriously think they live in a world where guns are just going to magically disappear...poof? People talk about "changing the American gun culture", and I laugh and say "Good fucking luck"...unless you are straight up talking about genocide of some sorts. I'm cool with people having different opinions on the matter, and I respect different opinions...but all that the gun control crowd has ever been successful at is helping push the firearm technology forward. When Clinton banned "high cap magazines", the guns got more concealable, when Obama took office more people than ever started purchasing guns and ammo...making firearm manufacturers some of the wealthiest and largest lobbying groups ever. Hell, voting Republican might be your best bet at slowing down firearm sales, lol... Again, realistically... "Good fucking luck".
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,954
    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864

    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.

    LOL, the simplicity of my argument is that you have no ground to stand on. Time and time again your side's theories have been debunked. Even Bloomberg's right hand gun ban man has stated that their proposals wouldn't have done anything to reduce violence.

    You have a city of 3 million terrorized by GANGS, not guns. DRUGS fuel these GANGS, guns are merely a tool. If you took every gun away from them (you couldn't) they'd kill each other with knives, ban the knives and they will use a shovel. See, the logic of the situation has absolutely ZERO to do with guns. But you refuse to accept that. How many more laws do you want? It's already illegal nationally to be a straw purchaser, it's illegal to sell to a felon, it's illegal to murder, seriously use your brain and find the cause, all you anti's focus on is the symptom. That's not going to change anything.

    The governor of Illinois is such a brain dead dipshit that he paraded a press conference after the July 4 weekend where 20 something people were killed in Chicago. This fool demanded a ban on "assault weapons", the same type of gun that was attributed in 2011 (Chicago Police Official Report) to kill exactly ONE person in Chicago out of 500+ murders. See, that's the stupidity of these people, they stand on graves to pursue their agenda instead of focusing on the issue.

    In the meantime the Mayor of Chicago, Obama's former right hand man Rahm Emmanuel cut 1000 police jobs and millions from the public school system, and allows illegal aliens a sanctuary.

    It's all a flipping joke.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    edited July 2014
    rr165892 said:

    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.
    How does a states demographic make up ,impact what laws should and shouldn't be enforced or enacted upon?I assume CT laws and say Georgia's would cater to a different demographic and people would view them as either too restrictive or to lenient based on the state.

    Jesus dude don't try using logic here, that won't fly.
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 18,365

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report

    Wild story (which ironically took place in a psychiatric unit).

    Article says the doctor shot and injured the gunman...don't know how bad things are there, but how nuts (honestly, no pun intended) must it be to bring a gun to work as a doctor?
    That in itself is remarkably sad, not to mention - or overlook - the life taken.


  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    edited July 2014
    brianlux said:




    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.
    It's true, unsung, we keep hearing this over and over. Obviously gun laws are not working in Chicago but does that mean they don't work elsewhere. Besides what we need more than laws (not that they can't help) is a new state of the American Mind about guns and violence and a movement toward cooperation, better education, social justice, reduced poverty, better understanding, working together and L-U-V!


    I'll give you credit for being on that side, at least you understand the social issues of the situation. The fact of the matter is though that criminals don't obey laws to begin with. You make more? What's it going to do? Add six months to their plea bargain? Chicago is such a joke because what happens is never in the news, they let these guys plea bargain out of stronger charges because there is simply nowhere to put them. The county jail is severely overcrowded. So unless you are planning on adding federal charges and actually sentencing them and making them serve it not much will change. They go away for a nickel and come out better connected and more powerful.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    There's a lot going around about all of these special interest groups that are demanding equal rights, it doesn't matter which, pick the flavor of the week. They each have their own agenda, and that's fine. If someone doesn't necessarily agree with a point then they are labeled, called names, and they are deemed intolerant.

    Fair enough.

    All except for one group. This group is under fire and blamed for just about every problem in this country today. This group is subject to attacks from "grassroots" groups that are funded to the tune of $50M/yr by the 17th richest man in the world, subject to lies from a certain political group, sold out by another, and on the defensive from biased mainstream media. This group loses their rights because other people suffer from hurt feelings and fear. And it is ok, even celebrated to bash this group.

    What group am I speaking of? The LEGAL gun owner. I'm one. I'm proud of it.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited July 2014
    mickeyrat said:

    callen said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Where? From where do these weapons come that wind up on the black market and other places that criminals use to commit these crimes?

    Tell me that and I'll offer a possible solution other than whats been repeatedly offered to date.

    Are you replying to me? Not sure of your question.
    not your specifically. Just in general.

    If ,in large part, a lot of these killings,(chicago especially) are done with illegally obtained or possessed guns, then logic dictates we ask from where do they come?
    Stolen from legal gun owners and gun shows would seem
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Yep, those massive amounts of gun laws work awesome for Chicago.

    :-?

    Unsung... you keep spouting this one, but if this is all you have... then the pro-gun side has nothing. Even the most simple fool can understand the general idea that strict laws in one state can do nothing when neighbouring states do not feature the same laws.

    So please stop taking us for less than the most simple fools.

    LOL, the simplicity of my argument is that you have no ground to stand on. Time and time again your side's theories have been debunked. Even Bloomberg's right hand gun ban man has stated that their proposals wouldn't have done anything to reduce violence.

    You have a city of 3 million terrorized by GANGS, not guns. DRUGS fuel these GANGS, guns are merely a tool. If you took every gun away from them (you couldn't) they'd kill each other with knives, ban the knives and they will use a shovel. See, the logic of the situation has absolutely ZERO to do with guns. But you refuse to accept that. How many more laws do you want? It's already illegal nationally to be a straw purchaser, it's illegal to sell to a felon, it's illegal to murder, seriously use your brain and find the cause, all you anti's focus on is the symptom. That's not going to change anything.

    The governor of Illinois is such a brain dead dipshit that he paraded a press conference after the July 4 weekend where 20 something people were killed in Chicago. This fool demanded a ban on "assault weapons", the same type of gun that was attributed in 2011 (Chicago Police Official Report) to kill exactly ONE person in Chicago out of 500+ murders. See, that's the stupidity of these people, they stand on graves to pursue their agenda instead of focusing on the issue.

    In the meantime the Mayor of Chicago, Obama's former right hand man Rahm Emmanuel cut 1000 police jobs and millions from the public school system, and allows illegal aliens a sanctuary.

    It's all a flipping joke.
    All that sounds so logical till you compare our gun killings to western euro countries. We have a shitliad of guns. And our rights to have a shit load if guns means we will have more people shot by guns. Yeah yeah yeah I know it's all the baddies but the easy access to guns makes it easy for them. The gun culture is not a good thing. Nothing to be proud of. My opinion I know.

    Course as earlier poster stated we go round and round. We almost start discussing ideas to help all sides but then the emotions take over.

    What can we really do? Police can only do so much and really don't want to live with cps everyfreakin where.

    Any thoughts?
    Post edited by callen on
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    edited July 2014
    Honestly the social aspect needs to be addressed when it comes to the street violence in Chicago. I just won't sit here and accept that a device is the problem, only the ignorant blame an inanimate object.

    Gangs thrive on their drug game, for that they need turf. Capone rose to power through bootlegging alcohol, what happened when it was legally buyable again?

    Somehow we need to entice kids to stay in school, and of course the drug thing is a huge problem. Legalization should not be dismissed. Chicago has problems that are unique, demographics cannot be dismissed. I also support serious welfare reform. Disabilities aside, there is no rational reason someone should be on it from the day they are born to the day that they die. It becomes incentive not to work, not to improve.
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,142
    edited July 2014
    welfare pays decent in illinois? incentive no to work? if these ppl enjoy being poor as fuck then it is a incentive. so they collect some welfare which is bread crumbs & they sling dope. that is what they have been born into. a very difficult situation that not many rise out of.
    Post edited by chadwick on
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  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    unsung said:

    There's a lot going around about all of these special interest groups that are demanding equal rights, it doesn't matter which, pick the flavor of the week. They each have their own agenda, and that's fine. If someone doesn't necessarily agree with a point then they are labeled, called names, and they are deemed intolerant.

    Fair enough.

    All except for one group. This group is under fire and blamed for just about every problem in this country today. This group is subject to attacks from "grassroots" groups that are funded to the tune of $50M/yr by the 17th richest man in the world, subject to lies from a certain political group, sold out by another, and on the defensive from biased mainstream media. This group loses their rights because other people suffer from hurt feelings and fear. And it is ok, even celebrated to bash this group.

    What group am I speaking of? The LEGAL gun owner. I'm one. I'm proud of it.

    +1
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    unsung said:

    Honestly the social aspect needs to be addressed when it comes to the street violence in Chicago. I just won't sit here and accept that a device is the problem, only the ignorant blame an inanimate object.

    Gangs thrive on their drug game, for that they need turf. Capone rose to power through bootlegging alcohol, what happened when it was legally buyable again?

    Somehow we need to entice kids to stay in school, and of course the drug thing is a huge problem. Legalization should not be dismissed. Chicago has problems that are unique, demographics cannot be dismissed. I also support serious welfare reform. Disabilities aside, there is no rational reason someone should be on it from the day they are born to the day that they die. It becomes incentive not to work, not to improve.

    Your very much on point tonight.Saving me some typing. I always thought if you added drug testing and birth control stipulations to those on extended assistance it could also help break the cycle.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report


    And he was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,876
    unsung said:

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report


    And he was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
    No, remember. That doctor must have had major psychological issues for wanting to or thinking he needed to conceal carry...
    :(|)
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    PJPOWER said:


    unsung said:

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report


    And he was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
    No, remember. That doctor must have had major psychological issues for wanting to or thinking he needed to conceal carry...
    :(|)
    Why's that?Please elaborate.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,876
    rr165892 said:

    PJPOWER said:


    unsung said:

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report


    And he was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
    No, remember. That doctor must have had major psychological issues for wanting to or thinking he needed to conceal carry...
    :(|)
    Why's that?Please elaborate.
    That is an argument that the anti-gun crowd uses. They think everyone that carries must have psychological problems or is paranoid... No one knows how many lives that doctor might have just saved, but he will probably still lose his job for breaking policy. Crazy...
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    PJPOWER said:

    rr165892 said:

    PJPOWER said:


    unsung said:

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report


    And he was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
    No, remember. That doctor must have had major psychological issues for wanting to or thinking he needed to conceal carry...
    :(|)
    Why's that?Please elaborate.
    That is an argument that the anti-gun crowd uses. They think everyone that carries must have psychological problems or is paranoid... No one knows how many lives that doctor might have just saved, but he will probably still lose his job for breaking policy. Crazy...
    Ok thanks for clarifying .Sarcasim sometimes comes across as a differing viewpoint on line.I agree 100% with your statement BTW.I personally know many Drs and top surgeons/specialists in my area who hold a CCP.Pretty common down here?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    Who knows how many innocent people he would have killed, thankfully that doctor was there to save them.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    PJPOWER said:

    rr165892 said:

    PJPOWER said:


    unsung said:

    wait...

    what is going on in here??



    oh, just another hospital shooting...

    carry on.

    it's just another thursday in america.

    try not to get shot during your work day today.

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/three-shot-at-pennsylvania-hospital-one-person-in-custody-report


    And he was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
    No, remember. That doctor must have had major psychological issues for wanting to or thinking he needed to conceal carry...
    :(|)
    Why's that?Please elaborate.
    That is an argument that the anti-gun crowd uses. They think everyone that carries must have psychological problems or is paranoid... No one knows how many lives that doctor might have just saved, but he will probably still lose his job for breaking policy. Crazy...
    Worked out in this case but overall the proliferation of guns adds to death till of innocents. Irony the dude did kill the one person.
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    A Federal Judge just ruled that the Washington DC ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Police chief just briefed his people that anyone with any state permit can now carry in DC.

    The denying of this right is ending.
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