Global warming

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    ^^^ Same here. Other countries are responsible as well be the U.S. is where the most consumption thus greatest impact on environment starts. Doesn't give places like China a pass but the change--- or the collapse--- starts here.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    We've been hearing a lot about the extreme heat in Phoenix, AZ lately. One report on another forum from a Phoenix resident was particularly disturbing.  It's BAD! 

    But not only that, I've been reading about other concerns for excessive heat and we experienced a lot of unusual heat here in the Sierra Foothills throughout June.  We hit 108 a few times and our hot days normally start in July and go through September so this is concerning.  I think it's time we take an honest look at what is happening with global temperatures and see if we can do our own part to lower our carbon output.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    OP should revise his title, the agenda has a revised title of "Climate Change".
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,027
    unsung said:
    OP should revise his title, the agenda has a revised title of "Climate Change".
    Not everyone agrees with that and the two are not wholly interchangeable.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    unsung said:
    OP should revise his title, the agenda has a revised title of "Climate Change".
    Call it what you may, it's still planet earth getting warmer.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • So w/ out googling can anyone present a fact that we can reverse the human damage done to our planet?  I continue to bask in the sun on the beach wishing it was just a little warmer but no too much.  
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    So w/ out googling can anyone present a fact that we can reverse the human damage done to our planet?  I continue to bask in the sun on the beach wishing it was just a little warmer but no too much.  
    Easy:  Cover the continents with aluminum foil.

    And PJF, don't forget the sunscreen... unless you like the idea of having your face carved.  I get my first two carcinomas (two flavors!) carved out later this month.  Woopee! 



    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 541
    What is the ideal average temperature for the Earth?  For the sake of argument I'll agree that, it's getting to warm now, and during last ice age it was obviously to damn cold.  What is the optimal global temperature we should all be striving for?
    So that the polar bears are happy, the penguins are happy, and everything in between.
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,448
    RYME said:
    What is the ideal average temperature for the Earth?  For the sake of argument I'll agree that, it's getting to warm now, and during last ice age it was obviously to damn cold.  What is the optimal global temperature we should all be striving for?
    So that the polar bears are happy, the penguins are happy, and everything in between.
    I would say there is no ideal temperature- the earth is a constantly changing entity. However, these changes occur over thousands if not millions of years- except in the cases of catastrophic events.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    RYME said:
    What is the ideal average temperature for the Earth?  For the sake of argument I'll agree that, it's getting to warm now, and during last ice age it was obviously to damn cold.  What is the optimal global temperature we should all be striving for?
    So that the polar bears are happy, the penguins are happy, and everything in between.
    I would say the ideal temperature on earth is whatever it happens to be due to natural circumstances prescribed by the cycles and balances dictated by nature rather than changed artificially by the actions of one single species (especially when that one species has the cognitive ability to not inflict those changes).
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mike86mike86 Posts: 127
    So w/ out googling can anyone present a fact that we can reverse the human damage done to our planet?  I continue to bask in the sun on the beach wishing it was just a little warmer but no too much.  
    Less meat consumption, less deforestation, less pollution due to transportation oh and keep the oceans tidy... remember the amongst the waves video? Plus many others..
    (No native English speakers over here so please forgive possible misspelling)
    Follow the Strangest Tribe
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,719
    edited July 4
    I always had much respect for this guy but now that the "genius" has felt the Trump, I'm not sure. Drama much? He is one man folks.
    Stephen Hawking has warned that Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change could “push the Earth over the brink” and lead to a point where global warming is “irreversible”.

    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/stephen-hawking-says-donald-trump-could-turn-earth-into-planet-like-venus-with-250c-and-sulphuric-acid-rain/ar-BBDLkmQ?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp

    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    I always had much respect for this guy but now that the "genius" has felt the Trump, I'm not sure. Drama much? He is one man folks.
    Stephen Hawking has warned that Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change could “push the Earth over the brink” and lead to a point where global warming is “irreversible”.

    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/stephen-hawking-says-donald-trump-could-turn-earth-into-planet-like-venus-with-250c-and-sulphuric-acid-rain/ar-BBDLkmQ?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp

    Blaming Trump for global warming is a stretch.  Despite what D.T. said, we cannot leave the Paris Agreement until Nov. 4, 2020 and by then we will have a new (and presumably wiser) president.  Hawking is saying nothing new here and you are right, he is just one man, one out of thousands of women and men of science who clearly understand anthropogenic global warming. 

    And I'm not saying anything new here either, just keeping the ball in play, I suppose.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    Yesterday, I did something most governors don't do. I testified in a California
    State Senate committee hearing on two bills: one to help clean up the air we breathe
    and the other to help curb toxic carbon pollution.
    
    CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL. It is a threat to organized human existence. Most of you – you're going to be alive in a horrible situation. You're going to see mass migrations, vector diseases and forest fires – Southern California burning up. That's real, guys. That's what the scientists of the world are saying. So I'm not here about some cockamamie legacy that people are talking about. THIS ISN'T FOR ME, I'M GOING TO BE DEAD. IT'S FOR YOU AND IT'S DAMN REAL! So I just ask you, take it seriously. A vote in the State Legislature is scheduled this Monday, so please CALL YOUR STATE ASSEMBLYMEMBER
    TODAY AND TELL THEM TO VOTE YES ON ASSEMBLY BILLS 398 and 617! Our future depends on it. Thanks, Jerry Brown
    7/14/17

    Governor Jerry Brown, talking my language.



    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    A few days ago a trillion ton iceberg the size of Delaware calved off the Larsen C Ice Shelf Antarctica.

    Reading a number of articles about this leads to a few conclusions:
    1. The calving may just be a normal process.  Currently, it will not immediately raise the ocean water levels more than a tiny amount.
    2.  AGW contributing to the calving, however,  has not been ruled out.  It is generally believed by most scientists to be having a warming influence on the antarctic.
    3.  More calving and ice melting in the future is predicted.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/5-things-to-know-about-the-trillion-ton-iceberg/

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 541
    edited July 16
    This is an interesting video.
    Climate change experts not long ago were telling us that we were on our way to the next ice age, sooner than we might think! 1970s global cooling scare.  Then in the 80s&90 that was changed to warming.  

    Post edited by RYME on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,027
    RYME said:
    This is an interesting video.
    Climate change experts not long ago were telling us that we were on our way to the next ice age, sooner than we might think! 1970s global cooling scare.  Then in the 80s&90 that was changed to warming.  

    That's an old obfuscation tactic by right wing deniers.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,448
    RYME said:
    This is an interesting video.
    Climate change experts not long ago were telling us that we were on our way to the next ice age, sooner than we might think! 1970s global cooling scare.  Then in the 80s&90 that was changed to warming.  


    Gwynne was the science editor of Newsweek 39 years ago when he pulled together some interviews from scientists and wrote a nine-paragraph story about how the planet was getting cooler.

    Ever since, Gwynne's "global cooling" story – and a similar Time Magazine piece – have been brandished gleefully by those who say it shows global warming is not happening, or at least that scientists – and often journalists – don't know what they are talking about.

    Fox News loves to cite it. So does Rush Limbaugh. Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., has quoted the story on the Senate floor.

    Gwynne, now 72, is a bit chagrinned that from a long career of distinguished science and technology reporting, he is most remembered for this one story.

    "I have, in fact, won prizes for science writing," he said, with just a whiff of annoyance, in an interview this week.

    His April 28, 1975 piece has been used by Forbes as evidence of what the magazine called "The Fiction of Climate Science." It has been set to music on a YouTube video. It has popped up in a slew of finger-wagging blogs and websites dedicated to everything from climate denial to one puzzling circuit of logic entitled "Impeach Obama, McCain and Boehner Today."

    From the latest crop:

    Lou Dobbs on Fox News: "This cycle of science… if we go back to 1970, the fear then was global cooling. "

    Rush Limbaugh: "I call [global warming] a hoax… A 1975 Newsweek cover was gonna talk about the ice age coming. So they're really confused how to play it."

    Sean Hannity on Fox News: "If you go back to Time Magazine, they actually were proclaiming the next ice age is coming, now it's become global warming… How do you believe the same people that were predicting just a couple decades ago that the new ice age is coming?"

    Donald J. Trump: "This very expensive global warming bullshit has got to stop. Our planet is freezing.…"

    Most of the time, Gwynne, who still writes on technology and science from his home in Cape Cod, Mass., takes it good-naturedly.

    "It's part of the game, once you get from science to politics, that's the way it's played," he said. "I just hope people don't think I think that way."

    And still, Gwynne notes of his story, "I stand by it. It was accurate at the time."

    The story observed – accurately – that there had been a gradual decrease in global average temperatures from about 1940, now believed to be a consequence of soot and aerosols that offered a partial shield to the earth as well as the gradual retreat of an abnormally warm interlude.

    Some climatologists predicted the trend would continue, inching the earth toward the colder averages of the "Little Ice Age" from the 16th to 19th centuries.

    "When I wrote this story I did not see it as a blockbuster," Gwynne recalled. "It was just an intriguing piece about what a certain group in a certain niche of climatology was thinking."

    And, revisionist lore aside, it was hardly a cover story. It was a one-page article on page 64. It was, Gwynne concedes, written with a bit of over-ventilated style that sometimes marked the magazine's prose: "There are ominous signs the earth's weather patterns have begun to change dramatically..." the piece begins, and warns of a possible "dramatic decline in food production."

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-global-cooling-story-came-to-be/



  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    Global warming denial truly has fallen into the same category as "the earth is flat" belief only  the latter is kind of humorous but the former is a slow motion avalanche with no place to hide.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    An excellent article here addressing "the climate has always changed" argument against belief in AGW (anthropogenic global warming).

    It starts with a quiz:

    "The climate has always changed. What do you conclude?"

    Probably everyone has heard this argument, presented as objection against the findings of climate scientists on global warming: “The climate has always changed!” And it is true: climate has changed even before humans began to burn fossil fuels. So what can we conclude from that?

    A quick quiz

    Do you conclude…

    (1) that humans cannot change the climate?

    (2) that we do not know whether humans are to blame for global warming?

    (3) that global warming will not have any severe consequences?

    (4) that we cannot stop global warming?

    The answer

    Not one of these answers is correct. None of these conclusions would be logical. Why not?"


    For the reasons why, see the article linked here:

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2017/07/the-climate-has-always-changed-what-do-you-conclude/

     

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 36,717
    I read recently about the expected "great northern migration" the other day. It's expected that by around 2040 - 2050, much of California and other hot states will be unlivable - aside from having no water, it will just be too damn hot to live there. The expectation is that many of those living there will migrate north, into Canada and Alaska. :frowning:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    PJ_Soul said:
    I read recently about the expected "great northern migration" the other day. It's expected that by around 2040 - 2050, much of California and other hot states will be unlivable - aside from having no water, it will just be too damn hot to live there. The expectation is that many of those living there will migrate north, into Canada and Alaska. :frowning:
    And yet just down the road, about half way between Placerville and Sacramento, CA, the city of Folsom is building 10,000 new homes,  If the average household is 4 people that's another 40,000 people just in this one area.  CRAZINESS!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 36,717
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I read recently about the expected "great northern migration" the other day. It's expected that by around 2040 - 2050, much of California and other hot states will be unlivable - aside from having no water, it will just be too damn hot to live there. The expectation is that many of those living there will migrate north, into Canada and Alaska. :frowning:
    And yet just down the road, about half way between Placerville and Sacramento, CA, the city of Folsom is building 10,000 new homes,  If the average household is 4 people that's another 40,000 people just in this one area.  CRAZINESS!
    Yes, it is very crazy. I don't understand why development is happening there, as well as on the coast of southern Florida. It's so fucking stupid. I guess the developers don't give a shit as long as people are buying them, but the buyers should be smarter!!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I read recently about the expected "great northern migration" the other day. It's expected that by around 2040 - 2050, much of California and other hot states will be unlivable - aside from having no water, it will just be too damn hot to live there. The expectation is that many of those living there will migrate north, into Canada and Alaska. :frowning:
    And yet just down the road, about half way between Placerville and Sacramento, CA, the city of Folsom is building 10,000 new homes,  If the average household is 4 people that's another 40,000 people just in this one area.  CRAZINESS!
    Yes, it is very crazy. I don't understand why development is happening there, as well as on the coast of southern Florida. It's so fucking stupid. I guess the developers don't give a shit as long as people are buying them, but the buyers should be smarter!!
    They don't care!  When the news broke about those houses in Folsom the local station interviewed the developer and asked him about water concerns.  He basically said, "Oh no problem, got the covered."  Yeah right, covered my ass!  Follow the money, that's their game.  They don't give two shits about anything else.  Not even one shit.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,589
    Yikes! Glad to be meat free for 6 years and a part of that 3%. Fast food and meat obsessed will be a big part of our demise.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/01/meat-industry-dead-zone-gulf-of-mexico-environment-pollution
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    tbergs said:
    Yikes! Glad to be meat free for 6 years and a part of that 3%. Fast food and meat obsessed will be a big part of our demise.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/01/meat-industry-dead-zone-gulf-of-mexico-environment-pollution
    OMG yeah, meat as consumed these days is death.  I'm not 100% meat free but close.  It's a rare (and I don't mean cooking method) treat.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    I can't prove it's related to global warming but this heat wave is INSANE! 

    "Dozens of daily record highs were set Wednesday, including: Portland, Oregon (103 degrees), Medford, Oregon (112 degrees), Salem, Oregon (107 degrees), Eugene, Oregon (102 degrees), Seattle (91 degrees), Quillayute, Washington (98 degrees), Reno, Nevada (104 degrees), Montague, California (107 degrees), Modesto, California (106 degrees), Mt. Shasta City, California (101 degrees), Stockton, California (105 degrees), Pendleton, Oregon (100 degrees), Redmond, Oregon (100 degrees), Roseburg, Oregon (108 degrees), Klamath Falls, Oregon (99 degrees), Eureka, Nevada (99 degrees), and Winnemucca, Nevada (104 degrees).

    The 107-degree high in Salem, Oregon, Wednesday was only 1 degree shy of the all-time record high of 108 degrees, set most recently on Aug. 9, 1981. In addition, Quillayute, Washington, reached its  second-hottest temperature on record Wednesday with a high of 98 degrees."

    https://weather.com/forecast/regional/news/record-heat-west-early-august-2017




    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,589
    brianlux said:
    I can't prove it's related to global warming but this heat wave is INSANE! 

    "Dozens of daily record highs were set Wednesday, including: Portland, Oregon (103 degrees), Medford, Oregon (112 degrees), Salem, Oregon (107 degrees), Eugene, Oregon (102 degrees), Seattle (91 degrees), Quillayute, Washington (98 degrees), Reno, Nevada (104 degrees), Montague, California (107 degrees), Modesto, California (106 degrees), Mt. Shasta City, California (101 degrees), Stockton, California (105 degrees), Pendleton, Oregon (100 degrees), Redmond, Oregon (100 degrees), Roseburg, Oregon (108 degrees), Klamath Falls, Oregon (99 degrees), Eureka, Nevada (99 degrees), and Winnemucca, Nevada (104 degrees).

    The 107-degree high in Salem, Oregon, Wednesday was only 1 degree shy of the all-time record high of 108 degrees, set most recently on Aug. 9, 1981. In addition, Quillayute, Washington, reached its  second-hottest temperature on record Wednesday with a high of 98 degrees."

    https://weather.com/forecast/regional/news/record-heat-west-early-august-2017




    Crazy! Here in MN it's the exact opposite. Tomorrow the high will be 64! Way below average and the next several days will barely crack 70 with lows in the 50's every night.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,614
    tbergs said:
    brianlux said:
    I can't prove it's related to global warming but this heat wave is INSANE! 

    "Dozens of daily record highs were set Wednesday, including: Portland, Oregon (103 degrees), Medford, Oregon (112 degrees), Salem, Oregon (107 degrees), Eugene, Oregon (102 degrees), Seattle (91 degrees), Quillayute, Washington (98 degrees), Reno, Nevada (104 degrees), Montague, California (107 degrees), Modesto, California (106 degrees), Mt. Shasta City, California (101 degrees), Stockton, California (105 degrees), Pendleton, Oregon (100 degrees), Redmond, Oregon (100 degrees), Roseburg, Oregon (108 degrees), Klamath Falls, Oregon (99 degrees), Eureka, Nevada (99 degrees), and Winnemucca, Nevada (104 degrees).

    The 107-degree high in Salem, Oregon, Wednesday was only 1 degree shy of the all-time record high of 108 degrees, set most recently on Aug. 9, 1981. In addition, Quillayute, Washington, reached its  second-hottest temperature on record Wednesday with a high of 98 degrees."

    https://weather.com/forecast/regional/news/record-heat-west-early-august-2017




    Crazy! Here in MN it's the exact opposite. Tomorrow the high will be 64! Way below average and the next several days will barely crack 70 with lows in the 50's every night.
    Whoa!  Definitely unusual for out your way this time of year.

    I feel badly for folks in Portland.  103 is way beyond what that town generally experiences and I'm guessing hardly anyone has A/C (that ironic human comfort that helps drive global warming!)
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
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