Your opinion about Immigration.

arqarq Posts: 7,849
edited June 2010 in A Moving Train
Hi there

First of all I'm not an US citizen, I'm just one of the lucky ones who's forever in debt to this country for the chance to live the American dream, not the dream about wealth (a big car and a big house), I'm talking about the BIG dream FREEDOM, I consider this country MY country, and as such i could give my life for this country.

But because I'm just a guest here i believe i don't deserve to express my opinions in any national matter, I believe that's a right only for the citizens of this nation. But anyway i would like the hear the opinions of the citizens of this country about the 1070 and immigration in general, I've read a thread that touched that matter but it wasn't the main point, so i ask you to please express your point of view about immigration (legal and illegal).

Thanks
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,684
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc. We need to take better care of each other regardless of where we were born and where we currently reside. I think laws that are in place that make it difficult to be legal in this country are terrible. It's sad to see what's going on in Arizona and hopefully that will not become a popular thing to do.
  • haffajappahaffajappa British ColumbiaPosts: 5,955
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc. We need to take better care of each other regardless of where we were born and where we currently reside. I think laws that are in place that make it difficult to be legal in this country are terrible. It's sad to see what's going on in Arizona and hopefully that will not become a popular thing to do.
    Great points! (Even though I don't live in your country lol)

    And I know some people don't like it but I'll get it out of the way early (because you know its going to come up!)
    "We're all immigrants" is a good thing to keep in mind. Just because one nationality came and set up borders doesn't mean they have to be bastards about it.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • bleh. just dont get in my way! My plans for world domination must not be slowed down.
  • arthurdentarthurdent Posts: 969
    (this is just my opinion, but it's an opinion born out of experience)

    The small county in Kansas I live in has one of the highest percentages of hispanics in the country (about 49%). Most all of them work in the livestock feedlots or packing plants that dominate the area. And a fair chunk of them have a less-than-legal status. I don't have a problem with this, per se, but I have seen the problems it can cause for a community. I've noticed that they have very little involvement in the community, I'm guessing because of their rather transient nature (I go through a new set of neighbors in my apartment complex about once every six months), but part of it is also that a chunk of these people don't WANT to learn english and don't want to assimilate. A disturbingly high percentage of the school children are being taught english as a second language, which puts further strain on an already stressed and under-funded school system. I'll go to walmart to pick something up, and it's like going to the zoo. The little kids are pretty much left to run amok throughout the store and if you aren't really careful, you'll run one of them over (I've been tempted a few times). I see people who can't speak a lick of english going through the checkout line waving around wads of food stamps. It's so bad that it's almost impossible to get a job out here if you aren't fluent in spanish. I see brand spankin new Escalades that have been tricked out to the hilt parked in front of some of the dirtiest ghetto houses.

    I've had this conversation with several people that work in agriculture, and we've come to the conclusion that there's a difference between those who work in the fields and those who work in livestock. The field workers are some of the best, most hard working laborers you can find, but the livestock ones are some of the laziest, and seem to think that they're somehow entitled to things which they aren't.

    Bust most of all, I want these idiots to learn english so they'll quit fucking up my order at the drive-through.
    Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
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  • arqarq Posts: 7,849
    arthurdent wrote:
    Bust most of all, I want these idiots to learn english so they'll quit fucking up my order at the drive-through.

    :lol: I love the simplicity of your request :D
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

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  • arqarq Posts: 7,849

    well I LOL with both videos but the one about freedom is specially interesting for me, I came from a country where the president creates laws whenever he wants, one law penalize anyone who says anything negative about the presidency or the congress, another law give full custody of the kids to the state even over their own parents... Well in comparison, the USA is still the land of the free (or the mostly free at least).
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,206
    Legal is good, illegal is bad.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 9,849
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc.

    But it's a matter of logistics. We're already over-populated. And while I know a lot of illegal immigrants come from Mexico with nothing and get landscaping jobs, I'm sure there's some that come from Mexico with nothing and "rape and pillage" for lack of a better phrase.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 2,168
    arq wrote:
    arthurdent wrote:
    Bust most of all, I want these idiots to learn english so they'll quit fucking up my order at the drive-through.

    :lol: I love the simplicity of your request :D

    Quick! What's the official language of the United States?




    A: There isn't one :shock:
  • arqarq Posts: 7,849
    arq wrote:
    arthurdent wrote:
    Bust most of all, I want these idiots to learn english so they'll quit fucking up my order at the drive-through.

    :lol: I love the simplicity of your request :D

    Quick! What's the official language of the United States?
    A: There isn't one :shock:

    I've heard that a long time ago.... but now is our chance to push the mandarin as the official language! :D
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    haffajappa wrote:
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc. We need to take better care of each other regardless of where we were born and where we currently reside. I think laws that are in place that make it difficult to be legal in this country are terrible. It's sad to see what's going on in Arizona and hopefully that will not become a popular thing to do.
    Great points! (Even though I don't live in your country lol)

    And I know some people don't like it but I'll get it out of the way early (because you know its going to come up!)
    "We're all immigrants" is a good thing to keep in mind. Just because one nationality came and set up borders doesn't mean they have to be bastards about it.

    +1
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • haffajappahaffajappa British ColumbiaPosts: 5,955
    lukin2006 wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc. We need to take better care of each other regardless of where we were born and where we currently reside. I think laws that are in place that make it difficult to be legal in this country are terrible. It's sad to see what's going on in Arizona and hopefully that will not become a popular thing to do.
    Great points! (Even though I don't live in your country lol)

    And I know some people don't like it but I'll get it out of the way early (because you know its going to come up!)
    "We're all immigrants" is a good thing to keep in mind. Just because one nationality came and set up borders doesn't mean they have to be bastards about it.

    +1
    although, arthur dent does have a point about stressing the system.

    i get a little irked that 5 families can pack into one house and only pay one property tax, but send 14 children to school. that might be an exageration, maybe its the shitty education funding problem we're having in B.C. but it is a little frustrating.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,335
    Immigration made America.

    Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters. After all, these matters can affect you. I am also a foreigner in the country I live in. I've lived here over 22 years, been married to one of their citizens for that time, have a daughter and have been working here, paying my taxes for all this time too. But, I have no say in who will head the country and what they do with my taxes.

    For those saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) take jobs away from 'us', that is not the complete truth. Most jobs these people do are very hard an low paid - most americans wouldn't want to do them. Same here... lots of 'lowly' jobs are held by immigrants and, if they were not here, the positions wouldn't be filled.

    I also believe that if you are going to immigrate, you need to adapt to the country in which you reside, ie learn the language, customs, etc., and the citizens of the country need to be more accepting of these immigrants and help them integrate (whichever country this may be).

    Without movement of people (in and out) we would not have advanced the way we have (in all areas).
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,554
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc. We need to take better care of each other regardless of where we were born and where we currently reside. I think laws that are in place that make it difficult to be legal in this country are terrible. It's sad to see what's going on in Arizona and hopefully that will not become a popular thing to do.

    I totally agree with this. People are people. They should be able to easily go and live where they want to live. Nationalism is stupid.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,554
    citizen shmitizen. We're all in this thing together. I think we all should look beyond the idea of cintizenship, nationality etc.

    But it's a matter of logistics. We're already over-populated. And while I know a lot of illegal immigrants come from Mexico with nothing and get landscaping jobs, I'm sure there's some that come from Mexico with nothing and "rape and pillage" for lack of a better phrase.

    It's not a matter of logistics. It's a matter of choice. If the US becomes over-populated and becomes such that you don't prefer living here, you should be free to go somewhere else. That's what will balance things out, not restrictive, protectionist (even paranoid) laws.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • arqarq Posts: 7,849
    redrock wrote:
    Immigration made America.

    Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters...

    Agree but still i can be a guest in your house and be talk s**t about you, but you're right I pay taxes so from now on i'll speak my mind, starting now:

    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


    Things has chance since that was written... It seems like it should be updated.
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,335
    Funny you quote that. My great-grandfather engraved a plaque with those words when he settled in the US (from Italy).
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    redrock wrote:
    Immigration made America.

    Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters. After all, these matters can affect you. I am also a foreigner in the country I live in. I've lived here over 22 years, been married to one of their citizens for that time, have a daughter and have been working here, paying my taxes for all this time too. But, I have no say in who will head the country and what they do with my taxes.

    For those saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) take jobs away from 'us', that is not the complete truth. Most jobs these people do are very hard an low paid - most americans wouldn't want to do them. Same here... lots of 'lowly' jobs are held by immigrants and, if they were not here, the positions wouldn't be filled.

    I also believe that if you are going to immigrate, you need to adapt to the country in which you reside, ie learn the language, customs, etc., and the citizens of the country need to be more accepting of these immigrants and help them integrate (whichever country this may be).

    Without movement of people (in and out) we would not have advanced the way we have (in all areas).
    Am I reading this correctly? Are you saying you can't vote? If so that's outrageous.

    I agree with the 2nd para about jobs. We had a documentary about Peterborough which has a huge Polish community living there. The locals wouldn't do the jobs they did and the Polish made the English look like lazy slobs.

    Legally we can't shut the doors but I think we should. I think 60million on this tiny island is more than enough.
  • arqarq Posts: 7,849
    redrock wrote:
    Funny you quote that. My great-grandfather engraved a plaque with those words when he settled in the US (from Italy).

    Your grandfather has been added to my list of heroes :D

    Edit

    Well I don't know why my thread in the Porch forum was locked... c'est la vie :|
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • haffajappahaffajappa British ColumbiaPosts: 5,955
    nuffingman wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    Immigration made America.

    Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters. After all, these matters can affect you. I am also a foreigner in the country I live in. I've lived here over 22 years, been married to one of their citizens for that time, have a daughter and have been working here, paying my taxes for all this time too. But, I have no say in who will head the country and what they do with my taxes.

    For those saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) take jobs away from 'us', that is not the complete truth. Most jobs these people do are very hard an low paid - most americans wouldn't want to do them. Same here... lots of 'lowly' jobs are held by immigrants and, if they were not here, the positions wouldn't be filled.

    I also believe that if you are going to immigrate, you need to adapt to the country in which you reside, ie learn the language, customs, etc., and the citizens of the country need to be more accepting of these immigrants and help them integrate (whichever country this may be).

    Without movement of people (in and out) we would not have advanced the way we have (in all areas).
    Am I reading this correctly? Are you saying you can't vote? If so that's outrageous.
    wow i'm confused too, is it like a choice?
    What I mean is, my dad has "permanent residence" status even though he has lived in Canada over 20 years. He does this because he chooses to keep his Japanese citizenship (since in Japan you can't have dual citizenship) and just remain a PR here. The only difference between being a PR and having "citizenship" is that you can't vote as a PR... he doesn't really care about voting anyways (which is very Canadian, when you think about it :roll:)... he could easily apply for his citizenship and get it but he doesn't mind being able to do everything but vote.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 135,615
    redrock wrote:
    Immigration made America.

    Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters. After all, these matters can affect you. I am also a foreigner in the country I live in. I've lived here over 22 years, been married to one of their citizens for that time, have a daughter and have been working here, paying my taxes for all this time too. But, I have no say in who will head the country and what they do with my taxes.

    For those saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) take jobs away from 'us', that is not the complete truth. Most jobs these people do are very hard an low paid - most americans wouldn't want to do them. Same here... lots of 'lowly' jobs are held by immigrants and, if they were not here, the positions wouldn't be filled.

    I also believe that if you are going to immigrate, you need to adapt to the country in which you reside, ie learn the language, customs, etc., and the citizens of the country need to be more accepting of these immigrants and help them integrate (whichever country this may be).

    Without movement of people (in and out) we would not have advanced the way we have (in all areas).


    if i could write good english i would say exactly the same..Rita still is strange u cant vote
    arq,sometimes,laws are ok,nationality and stuff,but for me is how u feel..and u have every right to expreess how u feel,to tell your opinion...if u feel this is your home,im sure u love it,and u will fight for it..
    here in my country,we are a nation,of so many thousand years and alot of people says,u only can be Greek if u born as one,but i already saw people coming from other counties and be more Greeks than the originals
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,335
    edited May 2010
    Ref me being unable to vote. It's not a choice - if I could, I would. In the UK, if you are not a British citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland or if you are from a commonwealth country you can't vote in the General Elections. So, for example, someone from Canada, New Zealand, the Seychelles or even Zimbabwe to name a few, can vote (even if they have only lived in the country for a bit). I am in the UK under my French passport, so I do not qualify. The only way I can vote is if I apply for British citizenship and get a British passport.

    Nuffingman - I hear what you're saying. Where I work (a bakery), the factory floor is filled with East Europeans who will take on all kinds of jobs and are hard workers. Some of these are well qualified too... there is a midwife, an accountant, etc. The agency we use to get temporary bakery operatives hardly has any english people on their books. Those they have want the supervisory roles, not the operative ones.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 135,615
    so Rita?whats your nationality?are from France?uk?irish?im confused now
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,335
    American father, French mother, born in France (but in an American military hospital), married to a Brit, live in the UK. I hold French and American passports :mrgreen:
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    redrock wrote:
    American father, French mother, born in France (but in an American military hospital), married to a Brit, live in the UK. I hold French and American passports :mrgreen:
    So can you vote in France and the US?
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,335
    nuffingman wrote:
    So can you vote in France and the US?

    Yep... but I don't live there so I don't have a vested (personal) interest in the government. I would much rather have a say in the country in which I live and contribute to the economy.
  • battan1120battan1120 Posts: 310
    Illegal immigrants will soon be known as undocumented democrats
    The bus came by and I got on!!!!!
  • acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
    I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
    I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
    One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
    Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
    As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
    And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
    Freedom is not Free.
    You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
    Right or wrong, its my opinion.
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,140
    battan1120 wrote:
    Illegal immigrants will soon be known as undocumented democrats
    that's really funny rush. i seem to remember in 2000 and 2004 the latino community was heavily in favor of bush...
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