I respect anyone that has a backbone, common sense, understands the difference between the truth and a lie. Doesn’t support felons, racists and liars and believes in human equality. That’s why I support Pearl Jam.
Is this the same band that claimed to be for the fans, but every action they took was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers? Gotcha
I guess you didn’t get tickets? Your post shows who you are. No need to reply. Educate yourself, you might actually say something of value.
I guess Target is OK when the band needs to make a cash grab selling a limited edition item.
That’s been on sale for years. Good try though. Atleast we can weed out the clueless in this chain
You are the clueless one. I'm well aware of when this lp was available. The point so you can understand was that it was alright for the band to make a profit by forcing their fans to Target to buy an exclusive item but now they are telling the fans to boycott Target after they have made their money. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me!
They have tissues there too, sounds like you might need one.
Reading through this thread leaves me wondering how it is that so many Pearl Jam fans have turned away from or even against a lot of what (besides making great music, of course), this band has stood up for over the years. And why all the nasty attacks on a boycott that was voluntary? No one forced all these haters to do one single thing. And why slam those of us who participated? So much hate, and to see it on this pages is hugely disappointing.
Rock fans, including Pearl Jam fans, disproportionately belong to certain demographics that are more likely to be unsympathetic to the causes that Pearl Jam champions. This tension has existed for a long time.
Yeah, I suppose. It just seems odd to me that Pearl Jam fans would fit that group, but then I've seen the same with bands like Jello Biafra's fans. Many stand with his perspective on things, but a many also seem to hate the things he stands up for. Makes no sense to me.
Bear in mind that a lot of Pearl Jam's fan base consists of people who were adolescents or young adults in the early '90s and who connected to the general sense of dislocation and angst that the band's music projected, but without necessarily thinking or caring too much about the specific political ideas that infused the songs. They either didn't share the band's politics back then but didn't care because the band rocked in a way that they liked, or they were too young or disengaged to have strong political beliefs one way or the other. Now the fan base is older and their political beliefs are more in line with their demographics-- disproportionately white and middle-aged, and more conservative-- than are the political beliefs of Pearl Jam's members, who belong to the same demographic but who came of age in an artistic and cultural environment that fostered a different, more liberal political outlook. That creates a tension.
Interesting perspective that make sense, BF. Thanks.
My earlier interesting in rock music came at a time when even in our teens, the music we loved was also often the voice of things that mattered a lot to us. Songs like Crosby, Still, Nash, and Young's "Ohio", Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth", Otis Redding's "Respect" (later rearranged by Aretha Franklin), Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Fortunate Son", Bob Dylan's "Masters of War", and Phil Ochs' "I Ain't Marching Any More" (and many, many more), mattered to us and still resonate all these years later.
It's also worth nothing that a lot of those songs were seeds that germinated more contemporary bands like Pearl Jam, Drive-By Truckers, Radiohead, Muse, and Sleater-Kinney.
But a lot of people do change and become more conservative as they age. Even a lot of so-called "boomers" did. Which is why I like Neil Young's line, "People my age, they don't do the things I do" and "Better to burn out than to fade away/ rust." Not me, baby.
Very intuitive and interesting takes (seriously). I’ve always felt the similarities between 60s rock n roll and 90s rock n roll (and music all around I’d say. Damn is the old school hip-hop amazing) was how they were cultural revolutions. Rebellion, angst, courage to express oneself, etc. Whether it be juxtapose to the strictness of society (religious, etc.), coming of age generational angst where finally someone says “fuck you”. It finally all came out.
I feel like it came out in the most genuine form of art ever heard. You could just feel it. “Something in the water” as they say.
Boston '06 Mansfield '08 Hartford '10 Worcester, Hartford '13 Global Citizen, NY '15
This is the dumbest, most useless thing ever. How about someone focuses on the idiotic ticket process that is nothing but a bullshit scam?
Some people only care about themselves. Yeah, the ticket process is a major issue, click a few buttons. Real difficult.
Get real. Boycotting things for a few minutes doesn't come close to moving the needle. Meanwhile PJ and TM are in bed together completely raping the fan base and they want to play this holier than thou card? So lame.
To be clear, you are saying don’t use your time to draw attention to one thing that is bad, use your time and attention on another thing that is bad?
To be even clearer, he is saying: don't use your time to draw attention to major, systemic problems that threaten the very future of the country and our freedoms within it; instead, use your time and attention on a system that people use to access entertainment products.*
* A system that, whatever its flaws, still manages to ensure that thousands of the best seats in every arena are set aside for the band's fan club members-- a fact that completely undermines his assertion that "every action [Pearl Jam] took was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers."
Cool fake story. Let me know when Target and Amazon go under next week. You know, Target. The store PJ partnered with? I'll wait here.
BTW, the system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value. Instead, something comes up and they have to sell, but no other fans are allowed to get them at face value. Nope, the bots are pushed to the front of the line and within seconds, resell them for up to 10x face value while your band does..................absolutely nothing about it. Those are facts. So, anyway, make sure you use cash when you pay $1200 for a nosebleed seat to Raleigh. That'll show em.
See my post above. "Does nothing for the 10c members"? Au contraire. The system gave me, as a Ten Club member, the opportunity to purchase outstanding face-value tickets to as many shows as I wished-- and, in fact, I got those tickets. I would never have been able to attend ten Pearl Jam shows in six cities in two countries for under $2,000 if it had not been for the Ten Club lottery (or certainly not without a lot more effort required and a lot more uncertainty).
What fake story are you referring to? You said something that is demonstrably false, that "every action [Pearl Jam took] was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers." Thousands of fan club tickets are purchased for every show, most of which are excellent. Pearl Jam took actions to make that possible. If you are so convinced that the band is as corrupt as you say it is, why are you paying to belong to this fan club? You're painting yourself as quite a sucker.
You know who got a much, much better opportunity? The bots and the scalpers. You have to be slow to not see the b.s. that is currently happening. You keep focusing on the TENS of people who ORIGINALLY get an opportunity to get tickets. However, you fail to see anything past that. The system is set up for the bots and scalpers to spike the price point and fuck over the fan base. Stop boot licking and be honest for once. Yay, you got tickets to a show. Awesome. The rest of the arena was monopolized and the fan base was fucked over.
Keep moving the goalposts. "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That's what you said, and it's false. The system enables thousands-- perhaps tens of thousands-- of fan club members to secure tickets before they go on sale to the general public, and at face value. The system ensures that a significant portion of the best seats in the house are set aside for fan club members, something that wouldn't happen if Pearl Jam didn't insist on it. I'm not licking anyone's boots, and I'm never anything but honest. You, on the other hand, are a sucker paying annual dues to belong to the fan club of a band that you think is corrupt and hates its fans. And you're miserable. I actually have empathy for you because it cannot be hard going through life being miserable because you think that everything is rigged against you, including a band that you ostensibly love and that has gone out of its way for over 30 years to be good to its fans.
The 10C does not get the best seats anymore. Do not hate the players, hate the game. The DOJ approved the ticketmaster live nation merger. That never should have happened. I cannot blame TM for taking advantage of its competitive position to earn more profit. That is economics 101. IMHO the problem is the broken system that allowed it to happen.
I entered the Ten Club lottery for the shows in the spring of 2024. All of the tickets I got-- and I got tickets to every show I requested-- were either in the GA section, from one to ten rows on the floor behind the GA section, or in the first section on the side of the stage. So you're just wrong. The Ten Club still gets large numbers of the best seats in every arena, which is what I said.
Yeah maybe, but not in the northeast. GA is great if that is want you want. Maybe you have a five digit number and they stick you in the back of the floor? Seats at the back of the floor are not the best seats in the house and those were assigned more than usual from what I could tell. All I know is my seats have been farther back than prior tours. I was put in the 200s for MSG, far worse than prior years when I would get those same great side seats you mention. They may get a good allotment of tickets, but they are spread out more so TM can sell premiums. I am not wrong.
The Ten Club gets the GA section. These are the most high-demand tickets. The Ten Club gets seats in the sections on the side of the stage that are closest to the stage. The Ten Club gets seats in the sections on the floor right behind GA. I know this because I was given seats in all of those locations for shows in 2024 through the Ten Club lottery. So it's just not true to say that the Ten Club "does not get the best seats anymore." They are still getting the lion's share of the best seats.
The 10C does not get the best seats anymore. Do not hate the players, hate the game. The DOJ approved the ticketmaster live nation merger. That never should have happened. I cannot blame TM for taking advantage of its competitive position to earn more profit. That is economics 101. IMHO the problem is the broken system that allowed it to happen.
I entered the Ten Club lottery for the shows in the spring of 2024. All of the tickets I got-- and I got tickets to every show I requested-- were either in the GA section, from one to ten rows on the floor behind the GA section, or in the first section on the side of the stage. So you're just wrong. The Ten Club still gets large numbers of the best seats in every arena, which is what I said.
Yeah maybe, but not in the northeast. GA is great if that is want you want. Maybe you have a five digit number and they stick you in the back of the floor? Seats at the back of the floor are not the best seats in the house and those were assigned more than usual from what I could tell. All I know is my seats have been farther back than prior tours. I was put in the 200s for MSG, far worse than prior years when I would get those same great side seats you mention. They may get a good allotment of tickets, but they are spread out more so TM can sell premiums. I am not wrong.
The Ten Club gets the GA section. These are the most high-demand tickets. The Ten Club gets seats in the sections on the side of the stage that are closest to the stage. The Ten Club gets seats in the sections on the floor right behind GA. I know this because I was given seats in all of those locations for shows in 2024 through the Ten Club lottery. So it's just not true to say that the Ten Club "does not get the best seats anymore." They are still getting the lion's share of the best seats.
The 10C does not get the best seats anymore. Do not hate the players, hate the game. The DOJ approved the ticketmaster live nation merger. That never should have happened. I cannot blame TM for taking advantage of its competitive position to earn more profit. That is economics 101. IMHO the problem is the broken system that allowed it to happen.
I entered the Ten Club lottery for the shows in the spring of 2024. All of the tickets I got-- and I got tickets to every show I requested-- were either in the GA section, from one to ten rows on the floor behind the GA section, or in the first section on the side of the stage. So you're just wrong. The Ten Club still gets large numbers of the best seats in every arena, which is what I said.
Yeah maybe, but not in the northeast. GA is great if that is want you want. Maybe you have a five digit number and they stick you in the back of the floor? Seats at the back of the floor are not the best seats in the house and those were assigned more than usual from what I could tell. All I know is my seats have been farther back than prior tours. I was put in the 200s for MSG, far worse than prior years when I would get those same great side seats you mention. They may get a good allotment of tickets, but they are spread out more so TM can sell premiums. I am not wrong.
The Ten Club gets the GA section. These are the most high-demand tickets. The Ten Club gets seats in the sections on the side of the stage that are closest to the stage. The Ten Club gets seats in the sections on the floor right behind GA. I know this because I was given seats in all of those locations for shows in 2024 through the Ten Club lottery. So it's just not true to say that the Ten Club "does not get the best seats anymore." They are still getting the lion's share of the best seats.
Agree on GA. But otherwise not as many as they used to. At least in the northeast. The last northeast tour the best side sections were not 10C seats.
Reading through this thread leaves me wondering how it is that so many Pearl Jam fans have turned away from or even against a lot of what (besides making great music, of course), this band has stood up for over the years. And why all the nasty attacks on a boycott that was voluntary? No one forced all these haters to do one single thing. And why slam those of us who participated? So much hate, and to see it on this pages is hugely disappointing.
Rock fans, including Pearl Jam fans, disproportionately belong to certain demographics that are more likely to be unsympathetic to the causes that Pearl Jam champions. This tension has existed for a long time.
Yeah, I suppose. It just seems odd to me that Pearl Jam fans would fit that group, but then I've seen the same with bands like Jello Biafra's fans. Many stand with his perspective on things, but a many also seem to hate the things he stands up for. Makes no sense to me.
Bear in mind that a lot of Pearl Jam's fan base consists of people who were adolescents or young adults in the early '90s and who connected to the general sense of dislocation and angst that the band's music projected, but without necessarily thinking or caring too much about the specific political ideas that infused the songs. They either didn't share the band's politics back then but didn't care because the band rocked in a way that they liked, or they were too young or disengaged to have strong political beliefs one way or the other. Now the fan base is older and their political beliefs are more in line with their demographics-- disproportionately white and middle-aged, and more conservative-- than are the political beliefs of Pearl Jam's members, who belong to the same demographic but who came of age in an artistic and cultural environment that fostered a different, more liberal political outlook. That creates a tension.
Interesting perspective that make sense, BF. Thanks.
My earlier interesting in rock music came at a time when even in our teens, the music we loved was also often the voice of things that mattered a lot to us. Songs like Crosby, Still, Nash, and Young's "Ohio", Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth", Otis Redding's "Respect" (later rearranged by Aretha Franklin), Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Fortunate Son", Bob Dylan's "Masters of War", and Phil Ochs' "I Ain't Marching Any More" (and many, many more), mattered to us and still resonate all these years later.
It's also worth nothing that a lot of those songs were seeds that germinated more contemporary bands like Pearl Jam, Drive-By Truckers, Radiohead, Muse, and Sleater-Kinney.
But a lot of people do change and become more conservative as they age. Even a lot of so-called "boomers" did. Which is why I like Neil Young's line, "People my age, they don't do the things I do" and "Better to burn out than to fade away/ rust." Not me, baby.
Very intuitive and interesting takes (seriously). I’ve always felt the similarities between 60s rock n roll and 90s rock n roll (and music all around I’d say. Damn is the old school hip-hop amazing) was how they were cultural revolutions. Rebellion, angst, courage to express oneself, etc. Whether it be juxtapose to the strictness of society (religious, etc.), coming of age generational angst where finally someone says “fuck you”. It finally all came out.
I feel like it came out in the most genuine form of art ever heard. You could just feel it. “Something in the water” as they say.
Well said, DM. Yeah, the connection is strong, despite my major typo in saying "It's also worth nothing" when I meant to type "It's also worth noting"! Ouch, lol!
This is the dumbest, most useless thing ever. How about someone focuses on the idiotic ticket process that is nothing but a bullshit scam?
Some people only care about themselves. Yeah, the ticket process is a major issue, click a few buttons. Real difficult.
Get real. Boycotting things for a few minutes doesn't come close to moving the needle. Meanwhile PJ and TM are in bed together completely raping the fan base and they want to play this holier than thou card? So lame.
To be clear, you are saying don’t use your time to draw attention to one thing that is bad, use your time and attention on another thing that is bad?
To be even clearer, he is saying: don't use your time to draw attention to major, systemic problems that threaten the very future of the country and our freedoms within it; instead, use your time and attention on a system that people use to access entertainment products.*
* A system that, whatever its flaws, still manages to ensure that thousands of the best seats in every arena are set aside for the band's fan club members-- a fact that completely undermines his assertion that "every action [Pearl Jam] took was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers."
Cool fake story. Let me know when Target and Amazon go under next week. You know, Target. The store PJ partnered with? I'll wait here.
BTW, the system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value. Instead, something comes up and they have to sell, but no other fans are allowed to get them at face value. Nope, the bots are pushed to the front of the line and within seconds, resell them for up to 10x face value while your band does..................absolutely nothing about it. Those are facts. So, anyway, make sure you use cash when you pay $1200 for a nosebleed seat to Raleigh. That'll show em.
See my post above. "Does nothing for the 10c members"? Au contraire. The system gave me, as a Ten Club member, the opportunity to purchase outstanding face-value tickets to as many shows as I wished-- and, in fact, I got those tickets. I would never have been able to attend ten Pearl Jam shows in six cities in two countries for under $2,000 if it had not been for the Ten Club lottery (or certainly not without a lot more effort required and a lot more uncertainty).
What fake story are you referring to? You said something that is demonstrably false, that "every action [Pearl Jam took] was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers." Thousands of fan club tickets are purchased for every show, most of which are excellent. Pearl Jam took actions to make that possible. If you are so convinced that the band is as corrupt as you say it is, why are you paying to belong to this fan club? You're painting yourself as quite a sucker.
You know who got a much, much better opportunity? The bots and the scalpers. You have to be slow to not see the b.s. that is currently happening. You keep focusing on the TENS of people who ORIGINALLY get an opportunity to get tickets. However, you fail to see anything past that. The system is set up for the bots and scalpers to spike the price point and fuck over the fan base. Stop boot licking and be honest for once. Yay, you got tickets to a show. Awesome. The rest of the arena was monopolized and the fan base was fucked over.
Keep moving the goalposts. "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That's what you said, and it's false. The system enables thousands-- perhaps tens of thousands-- of fan club members to secure tickets before they go on sale to the general public, and at face value. The system ensures that a significant portion of the best seats in the house are set aside for fan club members, something that wouldn't happen if Pearl Jam didn't insist on it. I'm not licking anyone's boots, and I'm never anything but honest. You, on the other hand, are a sucker paying annual dues to belong to the fan club of a band that you think is corrupt and hates its fans. And you're miserable. I actually have empathy for you because it cannot be hard going through life being miserable because you think that everything is rigged against you, including a band that you ostensibly love and that has gone out of its way for over 30 years to be good to its fans.
What I wrote was 100% true. You are just incapable of saying anything remotely critical about the band or the system. You're a common boot licker and the world needs those at times. If you put in for tickets and don't strike out, you cannot resell them for a profit or risk being "punished". However, if you sell those same tickets at face value, there is a 99% chance they get scooped up by a bot and resold on the scalper sites for a much, much higher price. That is a fact, and if you stopped ball washing for a minute and admit that, you wouldn't feel the need to be the band's personal defender.
Events are events. Prices are based on supply and demand. If you buy a ticket for $200 and cannot make it, you should be able to sell it for whatever the market dictates. Why are the bots the only ones allowed to profit when the 10c members already pay a yearly donation to the band just for the OPPORTUNITY to BUY tickets?
The thing that really grinds my gears is that after 30+ years, this is the most creative system they could come up with?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
The thing that really grinds my gears is that after 30+ years, this is the most creative system they could come up with?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
You are asking for 10C managerial oversight. That is long gone, costs money, and is not how the TM business model is designed. It is all automated. If you win the lottery and want to sell F2F then you put yourself in the TM system. Which means bots and resellers. Do not buy if you cannot go.
The thing that really grinds my gears is that after 30+ years, this is the most creative system they could come up with?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
You are asking for 10C managerial oversight. That is long gone, costs money, and is not how the TM business model is designed. It is all automated. If you win the lottery and want to sell F2F then you put yourself in the TM system. Which means bots and resellers. Do not buy if you cannot go.
It would still be automated and would take exactly no more management or resources. Nobody would have to track people who are scalping their tickets. In fact it would be much easier and cheaper to manage than the current, mindless system.
I guess Target is OK when the band needs to make a cash grab selling a limited edition item.
That’s been on sale for years. Good try though. Atleast we can weed out the clueless in this chain
You are the clueless one. I'm well aware of when this lp was available. The point so you can understand was that it was alright for the band to make a profit by forcing their fans to Target to buy an exclusive item but now they are telling the fans to boycott Target after they have made their money. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me!
Target wasn’t shitting on minorities in their hiring process back then (or at least acquiescing to smooth brain shareholders who want regressive policies because some white buys feel put out). So things change.
Also, no one was forced to buy from Target (ten club sold them too. Twice I believe)
This may be the dumbest, laziest comment I have ever read. Holy hell
The 10C does not get the best seats anymore. Do not hate the players, hate the game. The DOJ approved the ticketmaster live nation merger. That never should have happened. I cannot blame TM for taking advantage of its competitive position to earn more profit. That is economics 101. IMHO the problem is the broken system that allowed it to happen.
I entered the Ten Club lottery for the shows in the spring of 2024. All of the tickets I got-- and I got tickets to every show I requested-- were either in the GA section, from one to ten rows on the floor behind the GA section, or in the first section on the side of the stage. So you're just wrong. The Ten Club still gets large numbers of the best seats in every arena, which is what I said.
Yeah maybe, but not in the northeast. GA is great if that is want you want. Maybe you have a five digit number and they stick you in the back of the floor? Seats at the back of the floor are not the best seats in the house and those were assigned more than usual from what I could tell. All I know is my seats have been farther back than prior tours. I was put in the 200s for MSG, far worse than prior years when I would get those same great side seats you mention. They may get a good allotment of tickets, but they are spread out more so TM can sell premiums. I am not wrong.
MSG had very specific tiers to choose from, if you were in the 200’s, it’s because you checked the box that said you would accept those tickets. Signed, someone who was also in the 200’s for MSG and was honestly glad to get in the building.
PS- the only system that will fix Northeast ticketing is more NE shows. The demand is higher than the volume of available seats. This system is by no means perfect but the NE supply and demand is a separate issue.
The thing that really grinds my gears is that after 30+ years, this is the most creative system they could come up with?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
You are asking for 10C managerial oversight. That is long gone, costs money, and is not how the TM business model is designed. It is all automated. If you win the lottery and want to sell F2F then you put yourself in the TM system. Which means bots and resellers. Do not buy if you cannot go.
It would still be automated and would take exactly no more management or resources. Nobody would have to track people who are scalping their tickets. In fact it would be much easier and cheaper to manage than the current, mindless system.
This is exactly how the Newport Folk Fest handles it through Dice. I don't know if a band of Pearl Jam's size can or would use them for ticketing and also can't imagine TM has an appetite for that sort of setup.
Also, it works well for the Folk Fest because it's all GA. Managing a queued waiitlist when there will be a wide variance in the quality of seats being thrown back could be tricky.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,229
Wow, the personal attacks here! This place is competing with AMT for the Nasty Corner of the Pearl Jam Community Pages award.
I guess Target is OK when the band needs to make a cash grab selling a limited edition item.
That’s been on sale for years. Good try though. Atleast we can weed out the clueless in this chain
You are the clueless one. I'm well aware of when this lp was available. The point so you can understand was that it was alright for the band to make a profit by forcing their fans to Target to buy an exclusive item but now they are telling the fans to boycott Target after they have made their money. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me!
Target wasn’t shitting on minorities in their hiring process back then (or at least acquiescing to smooth brain shareholders who want regressive policies because some white buys feel put out). So things change.
Also, no one was forced to buy from Target (ten club sold them too. Twice I believe)
There is still PJ product being sold at Target. If their business practices are so awful why doesn't the band buy all their product back and boycott Target themselves. I think we know the answer. It's the Democrat mantra do as I say not as I do.
Your last sentence is laughable, but ok, good burn man. Since they are in support of efforts to limit environmental impact they should also never travel and cease to exist to minimize their carbon footprint. Pretty sure you know how it works, but you're whining because they don't 100% disconnect from parts of our way of living that are also negative. With that type of thinking it's no wonder shit is so fucked up these days. If you can't go all in, why go in at all, right? Fuck the world and everyone who isn't fortunate to be you who for some reason pays a membership to a band forum they seem to loathe.
Also, The current "king" of do as I say, not as I do is the sitting president, but do go on. Are you part of the new USSR (United States Sympathizers of Russia)?
Enjoy the next 3 years and 46 weeks!
4/22/92 St. Petersburg, 8/23/92 Orlando, 3/29/94 St. Petersburg, 10/7/96 Ft. Lauderdale, 9/8/98 East Rutherford, 9/22/98 West Palm Beach, 9/23/98 West Palm Beach, 8/9/00 West Palm Beach, 8/10/00 West Palm Beach, 8/12/00 Tampa, 4/11/03 West Palm Beach, 4/13/03 Tampa, 6/2/03 Irvine, 6/3/03 Irvine, 9/28/04 Boston, 9/29/04 Boston, 9/1/05 George WA, 9/11/05 Kitchener, 9/12/05 London, 9/13/05 Hamilton, 10/03/05 Philadelphia, 5/16/06 Chicago, 5/17/06 Chicago, 6/23/06 Pittsburgh, 6/24/06 Cincinnati, 6/11/08, West Palm Beach, 6/12/08 Tampa, 6/19/08 Camden, 6/20/08 Camden, 8/23/09 Chicago, 8/24/09 Chicago, 10/27/09 Philadelphia, 10/28/09 Philadelphia, 10/30/09 Philadelphia, 10/31/09 Philadelphia, 5/18/10 New Jersey, 5/20/10 New York, 5/21/10 New York, 9/3/11 East Troy, 9/4/11 East Troy, 9/11/11 Toronto, 9/12/11 Toronto, 9/02/12 Philadelphia, 9/21/12 Pensacola, 7/19/13 Chicago, 10/18/13 Brooklyn, 10/19/13 Brooklyn, 11/23/13 LA, 10/24/13 LA, 11/16/13 Oklahoma City, 10/1/14 Cincinnati, 10/20/14 Milwaukee, 10/22/14 Denver, 4/8/16 Ft. Lauderdale, 4/9/16 Miami, 4/11/16 Tampa, 5/1/16 New York, 5/2/16 New York, 8/5/16 Boston, 8/7/16 Boston, 8/20/16 Chicago, 8/22/16 Chicago, 4/07/17 New York, 8/08/18 Seattle, 8/10/18 Seattle, 8/20/18 Chicago 9/02/18 Boston, 9/04/18 Boston, 9/11/22 New York, 9/16/22 Nashville, 9/22/22 Denver, 8/31/23, St. Paul, 9/2/23 St. Paul, 9/18/23 Austin, 9/19/23 Austin
Wow, the personal attacks here! This place is competing with AMT for the Nasty Corner of the Pearl Jam Community Pages award.
This is the America of today Brian.
Just look at all the people who post on here claiming to be PJ fans while they support and vote for everything PJ is against. Not to mention all the whining about everything PJ does or says.
Wow, the personal attacks here! This place is competing with AMT for the Nasty Corner of the Pearl Jam Community Pages award.
This is the America of today Brian.
Just look at all the people who post on here claiming to be PJ fans while they support and vote for everything PJ is against. Not to mention all the whining about everything PJ does or says.
First world entitlement problems.
This describes a relationship to an artist that is completely foreign to me and, I suspect, many, many others
I learned during COVID to not get so worked up about what people thought or what their opinions and perspectives were. Took a long time. But I’ve applied it to other areas of common disagreements in society.
(Disclosure: I owned a gym at the time, so needless to say - I wasn’t exactly thrilled with lockdowns, etc. and felt damn strongly about it).
I’ve said for many years “I’m not going to change your mind”, so why bother getting worked up about it. I’m also never surprised at anything related to politics, etc. I don’t get worked up over the extremes the least bit. I have many close friends on either side of the political aisle. I love them dearly and have enjoyed countless productive and constructive conversations over the years. (FYI - the best way to learn why people vote or think a certain way is to talk to them, not abandon and shun them. Common ground and common understanding is found quickly by my experience).
…. To not beat around the bush - ask a Trump voter why he or she voted for him. There’s lots to learn and understand. (And, no, I never voted for him.).
It made for a lot less heightened blood pressure that’s for sure.
Boston '06 Mansfield '08 Hartford '10 Worcester, Hartford '13 Global Citizen, NY '15
The thing that really grinds my gears is that after 30+ years, this is the most creative system they could come up with?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
You are asking for 10C managerial oversight. That is long gone, costs money, and is not how the TM business model is designed. It is all automated. If you win the lottery and want to sell F2F then you put yourself in the TM system. Which means bots and resellers. Do not buy if you cannot go.
It would still be automated and would take exactly no more management or resources. Nobody would have to track people who are scalping their tickets. In fact it would be much easier and cheaper to manage than the current, mindless system.
Agree to disagree. TM does not manage 10C members. And they might make more money in fees with the current system. There is no incentive for them to make sure the tickets end up in the hands of 10C members at face value. Do not buy if you cannot go. Make them non-transferable. People would be less inclined to spend $500 if they knew they might get stuck with them.
The 10C does not get the best seats anymore. Do not hate the players, hate the game. The DOJ approved the ticketmaster live nation merger. That never should have happened. I cannot blame TM for taking advantage of its competitive position to earn more profit. That is economics 101. IMHO the problem is the broken system that allowed it to happen.
I entered the Ten Club lottery for the shows in the spring of 2024. All of the tickets I got-- and I got tickets to every show I requested-- were either in the GA section, from one to ten rows on the floor behind the GA section, or in the first section on the side of the stage. So you're just wrong. The Ten Club still gets large numbers of the best seats in every arena, which is what I said.
Yeah maybe, but not in the northeast. GA is great if that is want you want. Maybe you have a five digit number and they stick you in the back of the floor? Seats at the back of the floor are not the best seats in the house and those were assigned more than usual from what I could tell. All I know is my seats have been farther back than prior tours. I was put in the 200s for MSG, far worse than prior years when I would get those same great side seats you mention. They may get a good allotment of tickets, but they are spread out more so TM can sell premiums. I am not wrong.
MSG had very specific tiers to choose from, if you were in the 200’s, it’s because you checked the box that said you would accept those tickets. Signed, someone who was also in the 200’s for MSG and was honestly glad to get in the building.
PS- the only system that will fix Northeast ticketing is more NE shows. The demand is higher than the volume of available seats. This system is by no means perfect but the NE supply and demand is a separate issue.
You are right. I forgot about that. I did pick P2. I think that may have helped getting tickets.
This is the dumbest, most useless thing ever. How about someone focuses on the idiotic ticket process that is nothing but a bullshit scam?
Some people only care about themselves. Yeah, the ticket process is a major issue, click a few buttons. Real difficult.
Get real. Boycotting things for a few minutes doesn't come close to moving the needle. Meanwhile PJ and TM are in bed together completely raping the fan base and they want to play this holier than thou card? So lame.
To be clear, you are saying don’t use your time to draw attention to one thing that is bad, use your time and attention on another thing that is bad?
To be even clearer, he is saying: don't use your time to draw attention to major, systemic problems that threaten the very future of the country and our freedoms within it; instead, use your time and attention on a system that people use to access entertainment products.*
* A system that, whatever its flaws, still manages to ensure that thousands of the best seats in every arena are set aside for the band's fan club members-- a fact that completely undermines his assertion that "every action [Pearl Jam] took was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers."
Cool fake story. Let me know when Target and Amazon go under next week. You know, Target. The store PJ partnered with? I'll wait here.
BTW, the system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value. Instead, something comes up and they have to sell, but no other fans are allowed to get them at face value. Nope, the bots are pushed to the front of the line and within seconds, resell them for up to 10x face value while your band does..................absolutely nothing about it. Those are facts. So, anyway, make sure you use cash when you pay $1200 for a nosebleed seat to Raleigh. That'll show em.
See my post above. "Does nothing for the 10c members"? Au contraire. The system gave me, as a Ten Club member, the opportunity to purchase outstanding face-value tickets to as many shows as I wished-- and, in fact, I got those tickets. I would never have been able to attend ten Pearl Jam shows in six cities in two countries for under $2,000 if it had not been for the Ten Club lottery (or certainly not without a lot more effort required and a lot more uncertainty).
What fake story are you referring to? You said something that is demonstrably false, that "every action [Pearl Jam took] was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers." Thousands of fan club tickets are purchased for every show, most of which are excellent. Pearl Jam took actions to make that possible. If you are so convinced that the band is as corrupt as you say it is, why are you paying to belong to this fan club? You're painting yourself as quite a sucker.
You know who got a much, much better opportunity? The bots and the scalpers. You have to be slow to not see the b.s. that is currently happening. You keep focusing on the TENS of people who ORIGINALLY get an opportunity to get tickets. However, you fail to see anything past that. The system is set up for the bots and scalpers to spike the price point and fuck over the fan base. Stop boot licking and be honest for once. Yay, you got tickets to a show. Awesome. The rest of the arena was monopolized and the fan base was fucked over.
Keep moving the goalposts. "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That's what you said, and it's false. The system enables thousands-- perhaps tens of thousands-- of fan club members to secure tickets before they go on sale to the general public, and at face value. The system ensures that a significant portion of the best seats in the house are set aside for fan club members, something that wouldn't happen if Pearl Jam didn't insist on it. I'm not licking anyone's boots, and I'm never anything but honest. You, on the other hand, are a sucker paying annual dues to belong to the fan club of a band that you think is corrupt and hates its fans. And you're miserable. I actually have empathy for you because it cannot be hard going through life being miserable because you think that everything is rigged against you, including a band that you ostensibly love and that has gone out of its way for over 30 years to be good to its fans.
What I wrote was 100% true. You are just incapable of saying anything remotely critical about the band or the system. You're a common boot licker and the world needs those at times. If you put in for tickets and don't strike out, you cannot resell them for a profit or risk being "punished". However, if you sell those same tickets at face value, there is a 99% chance they get scooped up by a bot and resold on the scalper sites for a much, much higher price. That is a fact, and if you stopped ball washing for a minute and admit that, you wouldn't feel the need to be the band's personal defender.
Events are events. Prices are based on supply and demand. If you buy a ticket for $200 and cannot make it, you should be able to sell it for whatever the market dictates. Why are the bots the only ones allowed to profit when the 10c members already pay a yearly donation to the band just for the OPPORTUNITY to BUY tickets?
More falsehoods. I have been critical of the band on this message board. See, for example, discussions of the handling of the annual single. As far as the system is concerned, sometimes I have had great luck within it (e.g., 2024). Other times, I have not had great luck within it (e.g., 2022). I haven't had an issue with it either time. It's a lottery, and I'm not entitled to anything except the chance to participate in it. I recognize that this system has enabled me to get excellent tickets to see this band dozens of times over the years without paying a premium, including eight times at Madison Square Garden, one of the locations for which the system is supposedly especially corrupt. I appreciate the access I have had. I have no basis for complaint.
And more goalpost shifting. Your statement at issue was, again: "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That is false. The system allows Ten Club members-- tens of thousands of them-- an opportunity to purchase premium seats at face value before the general public. I could list other benefits of the system for Ten Club members, but I don't need to because that one thing is enough to demonstrate the falsity of your claim.
I have no problem with people who are critical of the band. No one is perfect, including the band and including me. But I do have a problem with people who come into this space populated by Pearl Jam fans and insist that the band is corrupt or, contrary to their decades of behavior, that they don't give a shit about their fans. Neither of those things are true, but your comments clearly indicate that you believe they are, which again leads to the question: why are you paying these corrupt people for the right to belong to this club? You can't even say that you keep up your membership so that you don't lose the opportunity to get tickets to their shows, because you insist that membership doesn't even provide that.
The thing that really grinds my gears is that after 30+ years, this is the most creative system they could come up with?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
You are asking for 10C managerial oversight. That is long gone, costs money, and is not how the TM business model is designed. It is all automated. If you win the lottery and want to sell F2F then you put yourself in the TM system. Which means bots and resellers. Do not buy if you cannot go.
It would still be automated and would take exactly no more management or resources. Nobody would have to track people who are scalping their tickets. In fact it would be much easier and cheaper to manage than the current, mindless system.
Agree to disagree. TM does not manage 10C members. And they might make more money in fees with the current system. There is no incentive for them to make sure the tickets end up in the hands of 10C members at face value. Do not buy if you cannot go. Make them non-transferable. People would be less inclined to spend $500 if they knew they might get stuck with them.
Are you kidding me? Life happens. Tickets go on sale sometimes a year or more before the show. Have you never had anything come up where you had to cancel? I'm not talking about the common street whore that TM is and PJ is in bed with. I'm talking about a simple process of re-pooling the 10c lottery. It's so simple a dumb cave man could do it.
This is the dumbest, most useless thing ever. How about someone focuses on the idiotic ticket process that is nothing but a bullshit scam?
Some people only care about themselves. Yeah, the ticket process is a major issue, click a few buttons. Real difficult.
Get real. Boycotting things for a few minutes doesn't come close to moving the needle. Meanwhile PJ and TM are in bed together completely raping the fan base and they want to play this holier than thou card? So lame.
To be clear, you are saying don’t use your time to draw attention to one thing that is bad, use your time and attention on another thing that is bad?
To be even clearer, he is saying: don't use your time to draw attention to major, systemic problems that threaten the very future of the country and our freedoms within it; instead, use your time and attention on a system that people use to access entertainment products.*
* A system that, whatever its flaws, still manages to ensure that thousands of the best seats in every arena are set aside for the band's fan club members-- a fact that completely undermines his assertion that "every action [Pearl Jam] took was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers."
Cool fake story. Let me know when Target and Amazon go under next week. You know, Target. The store PJ partnered with? I'll wait here.
BTW, the system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value. Instead, something comes up and they have to sell, but no other fans are allowed to get them at face value. Nope, the bots are pushed to the front of the line and within seconds, resell them for up to 10x face value while your band does..................absolutely nothing about it. Those are facts. So, anyway, make sure you use cash when you pay $1200 for a nosebleed seat to Raleigh. That'll show em.
See my post above. "Does nothing for the 10c members"? Au contraire. The system gave me, as a Ten Club member, the opportunity to purchase outstanding face-value tickets to as many shows as I wished-- and, in fact, I got those tickets. I would never have been able to attend ten Pearl Jam shows in six cities in two countries for under $2,000 if it had not been for the Ten Club lottery (or certainly not without a lot more effort required and a lot more uncertainty).
What fake story are you referring to? You said something that is demonstrably false, that "every action [Pearl Jam took] was to help monopolize the system and cater to the bots and scalpers." Thousands of fan club tickets are purchased for every show, most of which are excellent. Pearl Jam took actions to make that possible. If you are so convinced that the band is as corrupt as you say it is, why are you paying to belong to this fan club? You're painting yourself as quite a sucker.
You know who got a much, much better opportunity? The bots and the scalpers. You have to be slow to not see the b.s. that is currently happening. You keep focusing on the TENS of people who ORIGINALLY get an opportunity to get tickets. However, you fail to see anything past that. The system is set up for the bots and scalpers to spike the price point and fuck over the fan base. Stop boot licking and be honest for once. Yay, you got tickets to a show. Awesome. The rest of the arena was monopolized and the fan base was fucked over.
Keep moving the goalposts. "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That's what you said, and it's false. The system enables thousands-- perhaps tens of thousands-- of fan club members to secure tickets before they go on sale to the general public, and at face value. The system ensures that a significant portion of the best seats in the house are set aside for fan club members, something that wouldn't happen if Pearl Jam didn't insist on it. I'm not licking anyone's boots, and I'm never anything but honest. You, on the other hand, are a sucker paying annual dues to belong to the fan club of a band that you think is corrupt and hates its fans. And you're miserable. I actually have empathy for you because it cannot be hard going through life being miserable because you think that everything is rigged against you, including a band that you ostensibly love and that has gone out of its way for over 30 years to be good to its fans.
What I wrote was 100% true. You are just incapable of saying anything remotely critical about the band or the system. You're a common boot licker and the world needs those at times. If you put in for tickets and don't strike out, you cannot resell them for a profit or risk being "punished". However, if you sell those same tickets at face value, there is a 99% chance they get scooped up by a bot and resold on the scalper sites for a much, much higher price. That is a fact, and if you stopped ball washing for a minute and admit that, you wouldn't feel the need to be the band's personal defender.
Events are events. Prices are based on supply and demand. If you buy a ticket for $200 and cannot make it, you should be able to sell it for whatever the market dictates. Why are the bots the only ones allowed to profit when the 10c members already pay a yearly donation to the band just for the OPPORTUNITY to BUY tickets?
More falsehoods. I have been critical of the band on this message board. See, for example, discussions of the handling of the annual single. As far as the system is concerned, sometimes I have had great luck within it (e.g., 2024). Other times, I have not had great luck within it (e.g., 2022). I haven't had an issue with it either time. It's a lottery, and I'm not entitled to anything except the chance to participate in it. I recognize that this system has enabled me to get excellent tickets to see this band dozens of times over the years without paying a premium, including eight times at Madison Square Garden, one of the locations for which the system is supposedly especially corrupt. I appreciate the access I have had. I have no basis for complaint.
And more goalpost shifting. Your statement at issue was, again: "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That is false. The system allows Ten Club members-- tens of thousands of them-- an opportunity to purchase premium seats at face value before the general public. I could list other benefits of the system for Ten Club members, but I don't need to because that one thing is enough to demonstrate the falsity of your claim.
I have no problem with people who are critical of the band. No one is perfect, including the band and including me. But I do have a problem with people who come into this space populated by Pearl Jam fans and insist that the band is corrupt or, contrary to their decades of behavior, that they don't give a shit about their fans. Neither of those things are true, but your comments clearly indicate that you believe they are, which again leads to the question: why are you paying these corrupt people for the right to belong to this club? You can't even say that you keep up your membership so that you don't lose the opportunity to get tickets to their shows, because you insist that membership doesn't even provide that.
All you do is boot lick and defend a corrupt system that caters to bots and scalpers. You're on the wrong team, kid.
Comments
Mansfield '08
Hartford '10
Worcester, Hartford '13
Global Citizen, NY '15
Agree on GA. But otherwise not as many as they used to. At least in the northeast. The last northeast tour the best side sections were not 10C seats.
Do excessive amounts include bands that charge upwards of $300 or even $800 for packages of which it's the only way into the first 4-5 rows?
Yet you're still here.
Well said, DM. Yeah, the connection is strong, despite my major typo in saying "It's also worth nothing" when I meant to type "It's also worth noting"! Ouch, lol!
Events are events. Prices are based on supply and demand. If you buy a ticket for $200 and cannot make it, you should be able to sell it for whatever the market dictates. Why are the bots the only ones allowed to profit when the 10c members already pay a yearly donation to the band just for the OPPORTUNITY to BUY tickets?
If you actually wanted to do the 10c members a solid, and wanted to ensure that 10c members didn't resell their tickets for a profit, then why not just do this?...
You enter the 10c drawing for a show. You get lucky and obtain tickets. Something comes up and you cannot go. You are allowed to return your tickets for a refund. Those same tickets are awarded randomly to another 10c member who originally put in for that show. If they no longer want to go to that show, they put them back in the pool until ALL of the tickets allotted for 10c members are in the hands of 10c members.
At this point, it doesn't even seem like half of the 10c tickets end up in the hands of 10c members. So, this current system doesn't really work in any way.
You are asking for 10C managerial oversight. That is long gone, costs money, and is not how the TM business model is designed. It is all automated. If you win the lottery and want to sell F2F then you put yourself in the TM system. Which means bots and resellers. Do not buy if you cannot go.
Also, it works well for the Folk Fest because it's all GA. Managing a queued waiitlist when there will be a wide variance in the quality of seats being thrown back could be tricky.
9/02/18 Boston, 9/04/18 Boston, 9/11/22 New York, 9/16/22 Nashville, 9/22/22 Denver, 8/31/23, St. Paul, 9/2/23 St. Paul, 9/18/23 Austin, 9/19/23 Austin
Just look at all the people who post on here claiming to be PJ fans while they support and vote for everything PJ is against. Not to mention all the whining about everything PJ does or says.
First world entitlement problems.
(Disclosure: I owned a gym at the time, so needless to say - I wasn’t exactly thrilled with lockdowns, etc. and felt damn strongly about it).
Mansfield '08
Hartford '10
Worcester, Hartford '13
Global Citizen, NY '15
Agree to disagree. TM does not manage 10C members. And they might make more money in fees with the current system. There is no incentive for them to make sure the tickets end up in the hands of 10C members at face value. Do not buy if you cannot go. Make them non-transferable. People would be less inclined to spend $500 if they knew they might get stuck with them.
You are right. I forgot about that. I did pick P2. I think that may have helped getting tickets.
And more goalpost shifting. Your statement at issue was, again: "The system does nothing for the 10c members other than put them in a corner where they are threatened if they sell their tickets above face value." That is false. The system allows Ten Club members-- tens of thousands of them-- an opportunity to purchase premium seats at face value before the general public. I could list other benefits of the system for Ten Club members, but I don't need to because that one thing is enough to demonstrate the falsity of your claim.
I have no problem with people who are critical of the band. No one is perfect, including the band and including me. But I do have a problem with people who come into this space populated by Pearl Jam fans and insist that the band is corrupt or, contrary to their decades of behavior, that they don't give a shit about their fans. Neither of those things are true, but your comments clearly indicate that you believe they are, which again leads to the question: why are you paying these corrupt people for the right to belong to this club? You can't even say that you keep up your membership so that you don't lose the opportunity to get tickets to their shows, because you insist that membership doesn't even provide that.