F2F is OPEN

RS151862 said:

KJ228171 said:

GlowGirl said:

Houryo said:

Just got my appeal decision from TM and it was denied.  I can no longer use that account except for the tickets that are currenrly contained in it.  WEAK!

Welcome to the club. 

I combed through this thread. There are at least 10 of us since Friday. There just be an untold of additional 10C members and non members too.

Add me to the list of banned fans. I’m 0% sure 10C will be all over this. 

SHZA said:

Viva la Stubhub!

Hurls15 said:

Houryo said:

Hurls15 said:

RS151862 said:

KJ228171 said:

GlowGirl said:

Houryo said:

Just got my appeal decision from TM and it was denied.  I can no longer use that account except for the tickets that are currenrly contained in it.  WEAK!

Welcome to the club. 

I combed through this thread. There are at least 10 of us since Friday. There just be an untold of additional 10C members and non members too.

Add me to the list of banned fans. I’m 0% sure 10C will be all over this. 

Currently paused for the last few days.  Looking like a ban as I have never been locked out for this long.  This is ridiculous and should be embarrassing for the largest ticket seller in the world.

F2F no longer works for fans.  Based on the band's stated desire to keep tickets in the hands of fans and not resellers, it no longer works for them either. Time for a reset. 

My payment methods have been cleared and now state application error.  I tried to sell a ticket and got an error message to contact TM support which I have.  This just keeps getting worse.

Not being able to sell tickets in F2F?  That's even more messed up and completely contrary to how the band and ticketmaster stated the process would work in advance of ticket sales. 

EH14457 said:

For anybody who hasn't watched this John Oliver segment yet, you should: https://youtu.be/-_Y7uqqEFnY?si=H2YPqy6m_L-Q4ZHF

And here's a Wired article on the latest TSwift RICO lawsuit against Ticketmaster: https://www.wired.com/story/taylor-swift-fans-sue-ticketmaster-lawsuit-rico/

---

Given the bans we've seen in this thread, there are only a few possible explanations for how so many F2F tickets are still getting bought faster than fans on this forum can buy them and ending up on StubHub for marked up prices:

1. Enterprising broker networks out there have carefully scheduled jobs to run against Ticketmaster's web layer (bots or humans) using multiple networks, devices, and accounts in a manner that allows them to blanket high-value shows without any single network, device, or domain violating the published Terms of Use in a clearly identifiable manner.

This is extremely unlikely. The buyer path is high effort and high maintenance. And there's no clear framework for Ticketmaster to enforce any sort of model that's beneficial to them.

2. Enterprising broker networks out there have scheduled jobs to run against Ticketmaster's web layer (bots or humans) using multiple networks, devices, and accounts in a manner that allows them to blanket high-value shows. They violate TM's Terms of Use but it doesn't matter because they pay for that privilege or have other agreements with TM that allow them to be whitelisted. 

This is somewhat likely and probably happened frequently in the past, but any entity that wanted to go this route today would probably be better off doing something more efficient.

3. Official Ticketmaster partners are using the Ticketing API to procure tickets without even hitting the web layer.

This is by far the most likely explanation, with API customers having a simple repeatable path to ticket procurement and Ticketmaster generating revenue off partnership agreements, API calls, and potentially kickbacks on any tickets resold at markup which were procured via this route.

---

What's not possible is that for nearly every F2F ticket listing at original face value, a human user previously not known to resell is coincidentally checking Ticketmaster's website as precisely the moment it gets listed (without violating TM's Terms), buys it, and then decides for the first time to resell on a 3rd party marketplace.

F2F, while it may have started off well-intentioned, is now simply a charade intended to convince fans that they're getting a fair shake. If demand is soft enough and TM-enabled brokers don't see a good enough ROI, they may let fans get a few wins after they've kept prices inflated for months by artificially constraining supply. But it's all just a ruse.

Where this gets interesting for 10c and other artists/organizations going the F2F route is "Do they know?" Are they advertising a fan-friendly price-capping mechanic for their shows with the full knowledge that Ticketmaster is actually rigging F2F to be "won" exclusively by favored partners? When those favored partners win, do the artists actually get a cut of the final sale anyway? Or did Ticketmaster effectively find a way to maintain the dynamic pricing model for F2F shows through pay-to-play without even giving the artists a cut of the "true" sale price?

To be 100% clear, I don't believe 10c would condone this at all. I don't think they have any evidence that TM is actually rigging the F2F game. And I certainly don't think they're getting a cut of resale prices. I take them at their word that PJ Premium is intended to offset the revenue they sacrifice by keeping prices lower for most of the best seats in the house. But if you were them, wouldn't you be pissed if you found out TM is still effectively marking up more of your tickets? And just cutting you out of the loop?

And isn't the potential for backlash enough for more artists to start asking questions?

Some of the biggest tours in the world are claiming to protect fans by using F2F:
Pearl Jam
Billie Eilish
Oasis

If there was enough transparency about what's actually going on, would those artists and their management companies abide even a whiff of perception that they are complicit in the racket, and that they're claiming to be fan friendly while actually conspiring to rig the game against those same fans?

---

Back on the topic of bans, it's nearly unfathomable that even a single Ticketmaster employee believes their latest policies are benefitting fans or cutting down on actual resellers. Considering the permanent bans, the appeal questionnaire, the denied appeals, the instructions to still just "create a new account", etc... this likely comes down to one of 2 causes:

1. Metrics - Ticketmaster can say they're doing something about bots, scalpers, etc... by highlighting the number of accounts they've shut down using new enforcement policies. Especially with the Taylor Swift lawsuit and all the recent noise about bots on TM, this is a sloppy bit of misdirection but it might check some boxes for them, especially with more lawsuits and congressional hearings on the horizon.

2. Revenue - Real humans with an admittedly concerning level of dedication to getting good tickets are the actual target of the enforcement. Think of this in a broader sense than just F2F. Any ticket being procured by someone who isn't part of the racket represents loss of additional downstream revenue. If you can weed out the real users who frequently employ tactics that work, you get to keep more of the best tickets, and you get incremental increase in revenue. I imagine the actual revenue to be recaptured here is minuscule in the grand scheme of things, but corporate greed knows no bounds! 

Aside from those, it could just be bad luck. There could literally be one guy in the right role at Ticketmaster who is convinced that these tactics are actually effective, or someone in legal who convinced higher ups that this is critical defense for legal action. Or this may not actually be "company policy" at all, and there are just so many moving parts that some siloed group made a decision about policy enforcement, and a more reasonable higher up doesn't even know.

Not sure we'll ever know, but not sure it matters either.

This whole thing is just maddening on so many fronts.

yieldtobinaural said:

craigraether said:

It occurred to me today. Im sure everyone else has noticed that besides the lack of scoring any tickets the lack of drops is also evident. I believe this is due to the third party skimmers getting access to the tickets even before they reach the web API. When we post a ticket for sale we get an email that our ticket sale is live... It's about 2 -4 minutes later that the ticket appears on the website first in the list then 30-60 seconds later the map. I have seen some that would be appear on the list but no red dot ever appears on the map ( this sell that fast before the map can update with the tickets showing there) . What is the same could be true for the list. The way the web scans in intervals to pick new data to populate the sales fields, if sale happens so quickly that the data is not picked up because the tickets are no longer flagged as available for sale, and we never see it... I have been on drops, where someone says they putting X tickets up and I would refresh refresh refresh and someone would report they lost em or whatever, and my browser never saw them. I figured it was just me and my page was not refreshing or I Fed up.. 

 Im about to the point where I say F this whole tour and sit it out. Im already canceling Raleigh, and just doing Nashville ( have good tickets) .. This is not an  F 10c I didn't get what wanted and I'm canceling my membership garbage. This whole thing is putting a stain on feelings about the band and the music I love. I do not want to feel hate, anxiety and depression over a band that I love to NOT feel those feelings.  It's 1am on Christmas morning and I cant sleep thinking about how this is Fucking me and my friends over. 

Funny I just watched a YouTube of my first "full" PJ concert .. 1995 July 9th Milwaukee, WI.. (SF 7 song red mosquito was first show) .. and Eddie went on a rant about TM and Scalpers taking his fans money... Eddie,  we need 1995 Eddie back..  In 1995 the issue was over 20 dollars in fees added to each ticket.. how great would that be if that were the case here.. 

let us know when you plan to drop those Raleigh tickets and hit us with that link please