Immigration

Gern Blansten said:

I still hear the "division started with Obama" shit all the time. It started DURING Obama's term because of bullshit racism against the first black president. 

mace1229 said:

OnWis97 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I still hear the "division started with Obama" shit all the time. It started DURING Obama's term because of bullshit racism against the first black president. 

Exactly. "We never worried about race until Obama got in." First of all, that's not true and has never been true. Second, I can't think of a single thing he did, outside of being black, that was racial divisive. 

I've been wrong about two presidential elections dating back to 1984. One was 2008. I did not think America was ready to elect a black president. I was wrong. Turns out America was ready to elect a black president; it just wasn't ready to have a black president.

I disagree. People are going to dislike any president, and it's not going to be about gender or race most of the time. We heard so much Hilary lost because America wasn't ready for a woman, but at the same time everyone blamed Comey. Hilary just wasn't that likable and Comey was the nail in the coffin. She probably would have won if it weren't for him.
If Michelle Obama ran this year, she probably would have won. A black female. 
Harris had horrible ratings, there were talks if Biden would even pick her as a running mate again. I think Biden dropping out when he did and not having an official process hurt her chances. Despite the difference in electoral votes, it was a pretty close election. 
People hated bush and Clinton. But when they hate a woman or someone of color, it becomes about gender or race. I don't think it is though. 
Sure, there were probably some people who didn't like having a black president. But I don't believe those numbers were in any significance. 

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

OnWis97 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I still hear the "division started with Obama" shit all the time. It started DURING Obama's term because of bullshit racism against the first black president. 

Exactly. "We never worried about race until Obama got in." First of all, that's not true and has never been true. Second, I can't think of a single thing he did, outside of being black, that was racial divisive. 

I've been wrong about two presidential elections dating back to 1984. One was 2008. I did not think America was ready to elect a black president. I was wrong. Turns out America was ready to elect a black president; it just wasn't ready to have a black president.

I disagree. People are going to dislike any president, and it's not going to be about gender or race most of the time. We heard so much Hilary lost because America wasn't ready for a woman, but at the same time everyone blamed Comey. Hilary just wasn't that likable and Comey was the nail in the coffin. She probably would have won if it weren't for him.
If Michelle Obama ran this year, she probably would have won. A black female. 
Harris had horrible ratings, there were talks if Biden would even pick her as a running mate again. I think Biden dropping out when he did and not having an official process hurt her chances. Despite the difference in electoral votes, it was a pretty close election. 
People hated bush and Clinton. But when they hate a woman or someone of color, it becomes about gender or race. I don't think it is though. 
Sure, there were probably some people who didn't like having a black president. But I don't believe those numbers were in any significance. 

Saying Clinton wasn’t likable is describing the gender bias that was a significant factor in the election. She ran against a complete garbage of a person who no one described as likable. 

This is what I was talking about. Just saying people didn't like her you assume it's because she was a woman. trump is very disliked. Do people just not like fake spray tans?

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no, they took a turn for the worse in 2016

I agree. And I don't think it had anything to do with trump back then, that was before he took office. The whole Michael Brown incident and BLM taking off was back in 2014. Before the whole escalator announcement even. I blame the culture of diversity training more than anything. And now everything is about race even when it isn't. BLM was calling for protests and riots after the penny verdict yesterday, which had nothing other than do with race. 
I remember my first day in a new district back in 2018, we spent 2 days in diversity training where it was basically just white people = bad for 2 days. At the end of the second day a black co-worker stood up and said "I'm going home hating all white people" and he was applauded for his honesty. It didn't start with trump and its not going to end with him.

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no, they took a turn for the worse in 2016

I agree. And I don't think it had anything to do with trump back then, that was before he took office. The whole Michael Brown incident and BLM taking off was back in 2014. Before the whole escalator announcement even. I blame the culture of diversity training more than anything. And now everything is about race even when it isn't. BLM was calling for protests and riots after the penny verdict yesterday, which had nothing other than do with race. 
I remember my first day in a new district back in 2018, we spent 2 days in diversity training where it was basically just white people = bad for 2 days. At the end of the second day a black co-worker stood up and said "I'm going home hating all white people" and he was applauded for his honesty. It didn't start with trump and its not going to end with him.

This speaks volumes and no one is listening

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no, they took a turn for the worse in 2016

I agree. And I don't think it had anything to do with trump back then, that was before he took office. The whole Michael Brown incident and BLM taking off was back in 2014. Before the whole escalator announcement even. I blame the culture of diversity training more than anything. And now everything is about race even when it isn't. BLM was calling for protests and riots after the penny verdict yesterday, which had nothing other than do with race. 
I remember my first day in a new district back in 2018, we spent 2 days in diversity training where it was basically just white people = bad for 2 days. At the end of the second day a black co-worker stood up and said "I'm going home hating all white people" and he was applauded for his honesty. It didn't start with trump and its not going to end with him.

This speaks volumes and no one is listening

as with any "new" cultural initiative, some take it too far. We don't need to be sitting in board rooms being told how awful we are just because we are white. We just need to be taught the historical record of oppression. That's it. 

But to claim that racism didn't get worse, or at least peak its head out of the shadows when Trump arrived, is to be pulling the wool over your own eyes. 

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I still hear the "division started with Obama" shit all the time. It started DURING Obama's term because of bullshit racism against the first black president. 

I agree there is a difference between started with and during. I tried to be specific and say during. I said "under," but "during" his term is what I meant by that.
My point was it's just silly to blame trump for something that happened 2 1/2 years before he took office, over a year before he even announced he was running. 
Everything has been made about race for the last 10-12 years. The Daniel Penny trial was about race. Michael Brown assaulting a cop and getting shot was about race. Garage door pulls that looked like a noose but have been there for months were made to be about race. At the diversity training I've referenced a few times my principal shared a story where he shopped at Walmart, bought a bike and was asked for a receipt on his way out. He was so furious. He was 100% convinced he was only asked for a receipt because he was hispanic. He was specifically referring to a Walmart near my house. The funny thing is I get asked for a receipt every time I leave that Walmart too. Thats just what they do there. Anyone can see them stopping everyone and asking for a receipt. But when it happened to him, it became about race and he was furious. Everything being about race has kinda gotten out of hand. 

Donald Trump was a prominent promoter of birther conspiracy theories.[143][144]This elevated Trump's political profile in the years leading up to his successful 2016 presidential campaign.[143][144][145] According to political scientists John M. Sides, Michael Tesler, and Lynn Vavreck, Trump "became a virtual spokesperson for the 'birther' movement. When Trump suggested running for president in 2011, his popularity was concentrated among the sizable share of Republicans who thought that President Obama was foreign born or a Muslim or both."[144]

In 2010, at the urging of Donald Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen, the National Enquirer began promoting a potential Trump presidential campaign, and with Cohen's involvement, the tabloid began questioning Obama's birthplace and citizenship.[146]

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

OnWis97 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I still hear the "division started with Obama" shit all the time. It started DURING Obama's term because of bullshit racism against the first black president. 

Exactly. "We never worried about race until Obama got in." First of all, that's not true and has never been true. Second, I can't think of a single thing he did, outside of being black, that was racial divisive. 

I've been wrong about two presidential elections dating back to 1984. One was 2008. I did not think America was ready to elect a black president. I was wrong. Turns out America was ready to elect a black president; it just wasn't ready to have a black president.

I disagree. People are going to dislike any president, and it's not going to be about gender or race most of the time. We heard so much Hilary lost because America wasn't ready for a woman, but at the same time everyone blamed Comey. Hilary just wasn't that likable and Comey was the nail in the coffin. She probably would have won if it weren't for him.
If Michelle Obama ran this year, she probably would have won. A black female. 
Harris had horrible ratings, there were talks if Biden would even pick her as a running mate again. I think Biden dropping out when he did and not having an official process hurt her chances. Despite the difference in electoral votes, it was a pretty close election. 
People hated bush and Clinton. But when they hate a woman or someone of color, it becomes about gender or race. I don't think it is though. 
Sure, there were probably some people who didn't like having a black president. But I don't believe those numbers were in any significance. 

Maybe. But that doesn't negate the point. The right wing anger we're seeing isn't half the population. And I'm certainly not implying that race is even the #1 struggle Obama's detractors had. I didn't even make that statement in reference to the election but in reference to the oft-repeated statement on the Only Free Speech Platform in America: "Obama started this racial division." I stated that hate we were not ready to have a black president, by which I meant that a critical mass of people got very angry over it. That's what I believe. If you disagree then you must believe one of the following (or something near to it):

• There is no big racial division
• The racial divide is big but no bigger than before
• Obama caused the racial divide to be bigger.

To me, it's partly the second bullet but also that things became more tense and while Obama's presidency led to it, it wasn't him, but the reaction to him.

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