Capitalism, The Fed and Economic Policy

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

Hahaha....that was funny.

Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.

It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though. 

mrussel1 said:

Oh I guess we aren't blaming Glass-Steagall ending then for housing crisis, allowing banks to use commercial and consumer deposits for investment banking.  And we're not blaming mortgage companies for creating loan vehicles for interest only, stated income, 3/1 ARMS and every other crazy-ass lending strategy.  And we're not blaming realtors for telling consumers that housing only goes up, so you can do an ARM now because in three years, your house will be worth twice as much.  And we're not blaming consumers for being stupid suckers.  And we're not blaming mortgage brokers for selling securities that were toxic and essentially upside down the moment they were transacted.  

We're only blaming the community reinvestment act.  

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

Hahaha....that was funny.

Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.

It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though. 

What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?

edited to reflect who I was responding to.

Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do.  Go figure?

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

So explain how the president effects the economy? I mean the democratic policies of owning homes is what doomed us in 09.  That wasn't the presidents doing under Bush but what the dems brought forth.
Bush got the blame from dems and Obama got the blame from repubs.

So explain the difference between affect and effect

Your smart enough to find my grammatical errors but knot answer the question.  Good pivot.

So explain how "the president has little to no results of an economy"?

While you're at it, maybe explain how governors have little to no affect on state economies?

Or why liberal countries have more economic freedom?
According to....checks notes....The Heritage Foundation?!
Wait, that can't be right, can it?

Maybe it's just bad luck.  Like a typo.

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

Hahaha....that was funny.

Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.

It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though. 

What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?

edited to reflect who I was responding to.

No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually. 

Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

Hahaha....that was funny.

Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.

It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though. 

What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?

edited to reflect who I was responding to.

Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do.  Go figure?

Such as?

That the recession has roots from the 95 Community Reinvestment act...  It’s not the ONE thing but it is a thing.  It's ok to acknowledge that and not be contrarian to everything.

Page 5, second to last paragraph. Or the summary on page 1. Care to share what makes you claim as you do?

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2024009pap.pdf

You post, I disagree with your post. You claimed CRA was responsible. When pointed out to you it passed in 1977, you said the 1995 version. Well, here’s why I disagree with you. But I’m sorry, not sorry, I hurt your feelings.

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

Hahaha....that was funny.

Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.

It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though. 

What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?

edited to reflect who I was responding to.

No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually. 

Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame. 

There is a laundry list of offenders.  95 is the catalyst for it and then spiraled down. Halifax did a half ass google job to catch up.

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?

Absolutely do not agree.  

• Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
• This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
• The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents. 
• Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
• Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
  

I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed.  I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP.  For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic.  There was no policy that caused that.  Same with the recession that started in 2008.  I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one.  It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.  

2008 was housing and a democratic bill.  I would say that was the leading factor.

It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?

Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama.  That's why i didn't mention him...

And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?

Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.

Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?

Hahaha....that was funny.

Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.

It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though. 

What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?

edited to reflect who I was responding to.

No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually. 

Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame. 

There is a laundry list of offenders.  95 is the catalyst for it and then spiraled down. Halifax did a half ass google job to catch up.

I remember reading extensively about the S&L industry failure and the housing bubble bursting as it happened. Multiple sources of information regarding the causes, who was responsible, etc. It’s not “my lame ass Google search job to catch up.”

Please put your big boy pants on and link to your source for your claim that the 1995 CRA was responsible for the housing crisis, housing bubble bursting or the now moved goal posts of “recession.” 95 was not the “catalyst” as you claim.

Heres one.  We can go back and forth on this as I strongly disagree that CRA isn't partly responsible.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-cra-debate-a-users-guide-2009-6

Ronnie rayguns is innocent on this one though. Can't blame him and I can't blame Hilarys emails for this.