Capitalism, The Fed and Economic Policy
Comments
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Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.www.myspace.com0 -
CM189191 said:
So explain how "the president has little to no results of an economy"?tempo_n_groove said:
Your smart enough to find my grammatical errors but knot answer the question. Good pivot.CM189191 said:
So explain the difference between affect and effecttempo_n_groove said:
So explain how the president effects the economy? I mean the democratic policies of owning homes is what doomed us in 09. That wasn't the presidents doing under Bush but what the dems brought forth.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Bush got the blame from dems and Obama got the blame from repubs.While you're at it, maybe explain how governors have little to no affect on state economies?
Or why liberal countries have more economic freedom?
According to....checks notes....The Heritage Foundation?!
Wait, that can't be right, can it?
Maybe it's just bad luck. Like a typo.0 -
...especially since he then went on to blame Bill Clinton for the '08 housing crisis....CM189191 said:
So explain how "the president has little to no results of an economy"?tempo_n_groove said:
Your smart enough to find my grammatical errors but knot answer the question. Good pivot.CM189191 said:
So explain the difference between affect and effecttempo_n_groove said:
So explain how the president effects the economy? I mean the democratic policies of owning homes is what doomed us in 09. That wasn't the presidents doing under Bush but what the dems brought forth.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Bush got the blame from dems and Obama got the blame from repubs.www.myspace.com0 -
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Brilliantati©0 -
Oh I guess we aren't blaming Glass-Steagall ending then for housing crisis, allowing banks to use commercial and consumer deposits for investment banking. And we're not blaming mortgage companies for creating loan vehicles for interest only, stated income, 3/1 ARMS and every other crazy-ass lending strategy. And we're not blaming realtors for telling consumers that housing only goes up, so you can do an ARM now because in three years, your house will be worth twice as much. And we're not blaming consumers for being stupid suckers. And we're not blaming mortgage brokers for selling securities that were toxic and essentially upside down the moment they were transacted.
We're only blaming the community reinvestment act.Post edited by mrussel1 on0 -
Spot on. As usualmrussel1 said:Oh I guess we aren't blaming Glass-Steagall ending then for housing crisis, allowing banks to use commercial and consumer deposits for investment banking. And we're not blaming mortgage companies for creating loan vehicles for interest only, stated income, 3/1 ARMS and every other crazy-ass lending strategy. And we're not blaming realtors for telling consumers that housing only goes up, so you can do an ARM now because in three years, your house will be worth twice as much. And we're not blaming consumers for being stupid suckers. And we're not blaming mortgage brokers for selling securities that were toxic and essentially upside down the moment they were transacted.
We're only blaming the community reinvestment act.0 -
No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually.Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame.Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
Oh boy, no. The one in 95.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
0 -
Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do. Go figure?Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.0 -
Such as?tempo_n_groove said:
Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do. Go figure?Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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No no. It wasn't the smoking gun that made it all happen. There are 6 points of separation of blame. I used an example. Funny how y'all twist things sometimes.mrussel1 said:Oh I guess we aren't blaming Glass-Steagall ending then for housing crisis, allowing banks to use commercial and consumer deposits for investment banking. And we're not blaming mortgage companies for creating loan vehicles for interest only, stated income, 3/1 ARMS and every other crazy-ass lending strategy. And we're not blaming realtors for telling consumers that housing only goes up, so you can do an ARM now because in three years, your house will be worth twice as much. And we're not blaming consumers for being stupid suckers. And we're not blaming mortgage brokers for selling securities that were toxic and essentially upside down the moment they were transacted.
We're only blaming the community reinvestment act.0 -
Anything related to Heritage Foundation I throw out with the bathwater...CM189191 said:CM189191 said:
So explain how "the president has little to no results of an economy"?tempo_n_groove said:
Your smart enough to find my grammatical errors but knot answer the question. Good pivot.CM189191 said:
So explain the difference between affect and effecttempo_n_groove said:
So explain how the president effects the economy? I mean the democratic policies of owning homes is what doomed us in 09. That wasn't the presidents doing under Bush but what the dems brought forth.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Bush got the blame from dems and Obama got the blame from repubs.While you're at it, maybe explain how governors have little to no affect on state economies?
Or why liberal countries have more economic freedom?
According to....checks notes....The Heritage Foundation?!
Wait, that can't be right, can it?
Maybe it's just bad luck. Like a typo.0 -
That the recession has roots from the 95 Community Reinvestment act... Its not the ONE thing but it is a thing. It's ok to acknowledge that and not be contrarian to everything.Halifax2TheMax said:
Such as?tempo_n_groove said:
Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do. Go figure?Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.0 -
There is a laundry list of offenders. 95 is the catalyst for it and then spiraled down. Halifax did a half ass google job to catch up.The Juggler said:
No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually.Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame.0 -
Page 5, second to last paragraph. Or the summary on page 1. Care to share what makes you claim as you do?tempo_n_groove said:
That the recession has roots from the 95 Community Reinvestment act... It’s not the ONE thing but it is a thing. It's ok to acknowledge that and not be contrarian to everything.Halifax2TheMax said:
Such as?tempo_n_groove said:
Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do. Go figure?Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2024009pap.pdf
You post, I disagree with your post. You claimed CRA was responsible. When pointed out to you it passed in 1977, you said the 1995 version. Well, here’s why I disagree with you. But I’m sorry, not sorry, I hurt your feelings.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
lol you had zero idea what I was talking about and u googled it and half read what it was. It's ok fax to not know all the facts.Halifax2TheMax said:
Page 5, second to last paragraph. Or the summary on page 1. Care to share what makes you claim as you do?tempo_n_groove said:
That the recession has roots from the 95 Community Reinvestment act... It’s not the ONE thing but it is a thing. It's ok to acknowledge that and not be contrarian to everything.Halifax2TheMax said:
Such as?tempo_n_groove said:
Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do. Go figure?Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2024009pap.pdf
You post, I disagree with your post. You claimed CRA was responsible. When pointed out to you it passed in 1977, you said the 1995 version. Well, here’s why I disagree with you. But I’m sorry, not sorry, I hurt your feelings.
And yeah, u r contrarian and need to have the last word...0 -
Regardless of whether H2M knew much about the act before you asked, the paper is pretty clear in its findings.tempo_n_groove said:
lol you had zero idea what I was talking about and u googled it and half read what it was. It's ok fax to not know all the facts.Halifax2TheMax said:
Page 5, second to last paragraph. Or the summary on page 1. Care to share what makes you claim as you do?tempo_n_groove said:
That the recession has roots from the 95 Community Reinvestment act... It’s not the ONE thing but it is a thing. It's ok to acknowledge that and not be contrarian to everything.Halifax2TheMax said:
Such as?tempo_n_groove said:
Whats even funnier is there are other political pundits that say the same as i do. Go figure?Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2024009pap.pdf
You post, I disagree with your post. You claimed CRA was responsible. When pointed out to you it passed in 1977, you said the 1995 version. Well, here’s why I disagree with you. But I’m sorry, not sorry, I hurt your feelings.
And yeah, u r contrarian and need to have the last word...0 -
I remember reading extensively about the S&L industry failure and the housing bubble bursting as it happened. Multiple sources of information regarding the causes, who was responsible, etc. It’s not “my lame ass Google search job to catch up.”tempo_n_groove said:
There is a laundry list of offenders. 95 is the catalyst for it and then spiraled down. Halifax did a half ass google job to catch up.The Juggler said:
No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually.Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame.
Please put your big boy pants on and link to your source for your claim that the 1995 CRA was responsible for the housing crisis, housing bubble bursting or the now moved goal posts of “recession.” 95 was not the “catalyst” as you claim.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Heres one. We can go back and forth on this as I strongly disagree that CRA isn't partly responsible.Halifax2TheMax said:
I remember reading extensively about the S&L industry failure and the housing bubble bursting as it happened. Multiple sources of information regarding the causes, who was responsible, etc. It’s not “my lame ass Google search job to catch up.”tempo_n_groove said:
There is a laundry list of offenders. 95 is the catalyst for it and then spiraled down. Halifax did a half ass google job to catch up.The Juggler said:
No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually.Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame.
Please put your big boy pants on and link to your source for your claim that the 1995 CRA was responsible for the housing crisis, housing bubble bursting or the now moved goal posts of “recession.” 95 was not the “catalyst” as you claim.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-cra-debate-a-users-guide-2009-6
Ronnie rayguns is innocent on this one though. Can't blame him and I can't blame Hilarys emails for this.0 -
First, this article was written in 2009, before any real analysis had been done on the recession and causes. The Fed article linked by H2M was from2023, where you had the benefit of all of the data from teh crisis being assessed over time.tempo_n_groove said:
Heres one. We can go back and forth on this as I strongly disagree that CRA isn't partly responsible.Halifax2TheMax said:
I remember reading extensively about the S&L industry failure and the housing bubble bursting as it happened. Multiple sources of information regarding the causes, who was responsible, etc. It’s not “my lame ass Google search job to catch up.”tempo_n_groove said:
There is a laundry list of offenders. 95 is the catalyst for it and then spiraled down. Halifax did a half ass google job to catch up.The Juggler said:
No I think Tempo was likely thinking of the revisions in the 90's. Wouldn't shock me if he, like a lot of people, did not even realize that bill started 20 years earlier actually.Halifax2TheMax said:
What’s funny is that Tempo thinks it was the bill that was signed into law in 1977 and revised repeatedly up until 2009. It wasn’t the bill or the revisions that caused the housing crisis, it was the banks and savings and loans industry not doing their due diligence when issuing loans, the lack of oversight and regulation for said loans, and then the bundling of those shit loans into investment products for big banks and Wall Street to buy. But some keep believing the myth. Individual, small quantities of loans that go belly up at your local S&L don’t crater the economy and a huge sector of it. Concentrating that risk to the level that occurred does. Shrub’s administration looked the other way while this was occurring and like his pappy and Ronny Raygun before him, left a mess for a dem to clean up. Tax cuts while waging two wars, anyone?The Juggler said:
Hahaha....that was funny.Halifax2TheMax said:
Are you claiming that a bill passed and signed into law in 1977 is responsible for the housing crisis of 2009?tempo_n_groove said:
Sure can! Community Reinvestment Act.Halifax2TheMax said:
And the Shrub administration’s regulatory agencies looked the other way via deregulation of banking and energy sectors. Reference the specific Clinton bill that lead to the housing crisis, please?tempo_n_groove said:
Actually it started with Clinton if you remember. That was where the bill originated from but yeah, Obama. That's why i didn't mention him...Halifax2TheMax said:
It was the shrub administration’s lax oversight of the savings and loan and corporate banking industries bundling subprime loans as investment products on Wall Street. The housing market crashed in 2009 and Obama didn’t take office until1/20/09. This is why ‘Murica has gone to shit, shit for memories of what happened when, who was responsible and why. Shrub’s brother was responsible for a collapsed bank for crying out load. But dems and Obama, right?tempo_n_groove said:
2008 was housing and a democratic bill. I would say that was the leading factor.mrussel1 said:
I generally believe that presidents have little to do with economic performance since we went to an independent Fed. I know the stats you are quoting, but I think this is generally bad luck for the GOP. For example, Trump's recession in 2020 was caused by the pandemic. There was no policy that caused that. Same with the recession that started in 2008. I cannot point to any particular policy during the Bush era that would have had a direct cause of that one. It was years in the making and driven by economic conditions and policy through the Clinton and Bush years.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:I thought we all agreed that the president has little to no results of an economy?
Absolutely do not agree.- Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
- This applies to economic variables including job creation, GDP growth, stock market returns, personal income growth and corporate profits.
- The unemployment rate has risen on average under Republican presidents, while it has fallen on average under Democratic presidents.
- Budget deficits relative to the size of the economy were lower on average for Democratic presidents.
- Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Clinton revised it in 1995....and then the Bush admin came along and deregulated everything to shit--that all opened the door for a lot of loose subprime lending...poof: housing crisis.
It's because of a lot of what happened during the Obama administration that has prevented another one from happening thus far though.
edited to reflect who I was responding to.
Not acting like CRA played a role in lower lending standards is disingenuous. It is not the only reason for the housing crisis....obviously the next administration had a huge role. But this is an example of a time when both sides actually do share the blame.
Please put your big boy pants on and link to your source for your claim that the 1995 CRA was responsible for the housing crisis, housing bubble bursting or the now moved goal posts of “recession.” 95 was not the “catalyst” as you claim.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-cra-debate-a-users-guide-2009-6
Ronnie rayguns is innocent on this one though. Can't blame him and I can't blame Hilarys emails for this.
Second, the article makes the most obvious point in the world. When you relax lending standards, your risk will increase. Duh.
The Feds lowering and keeping of interest rates low over time was not designed to constantly stimulate home buying. Sure, mortgage underwriting and delinquencies are an important factor, but so is M&A. That has a huge impact on GDP and the Fed wants to stimulate that activity because of the significant economic upside of it.
So as this article even stated, the CRA did not CAUSE the crisis, but like all of the things that happened in the mortgage and broader lending market, it had some effect. In 2009, I was a senior credit officer at a top 10 bank. That doesn't mean I was underwriting loans, that meant I had decision authority on multi-million dollar NPV strategies. And we were crushed by the mortgage crisis even though 95% of our assets were credit card receivables. The decisions I made on subprime lending strategies and recoveries had an effect on the crisis. Literally. So you can throw me personally into the pile of people who are responsible.0
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