The Fan Exchange scam

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  • Lost In Ohio
    Lost In Ohio Posts: 7,245
    edited September 2023
    Get_Right said:
    mr bungle said:
    Get_Right said:
    You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model. 
    BINGO!  TM has become the scalper.   They already had the monopoly on tix.  Now they are trying to monopolize the scalper market!

    That is right. Dynamic pricing is designed to limit secondary market revenue. 

    People get mad when their favorite universities raise prices for big games. "I remember when all tickets were $59! It's ridiculous that they're charging $250 for this seat!"

    People are gonna pay the big bucks for the big events. It's a lot better when the band/team gets that money.

    If people wouldn't pay $699 for premium seats, the organizers wouldn't charge that much...but they're gonna pay the scalpers who buy the tickets for $120.

    The teams and bands finally figured out to get that money themselves.
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  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,108
    It's not complicated, you put an item up on ebay with a very high price. If you get 70% of asking price you earned more profit than selling it for a set fee. That is what is happening with tickets.
  • SHZA
    SHZA St. Louis, MO USA Posts: 4,314
    CM189191 said:
    SHZA said:
    CM189191 said:
    SHZA said:
    CM189191 said:
    Kwieneke said:
    CM189191 said:
    mattcoz said:
    CM189191 said:
    SHZA said:
    CM189191 said:
    Zod said:
    I do wonder.  How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets.  It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face.   How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

    I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.


    I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread.   Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

    In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable.   It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets.  It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets.  Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).



    Since 10C seats keep getting pushed further back, more transparency would be nice.

    Claim that Premium tickets subsidize 10C tickets?  ok, prove it!  Show me the money!
    Of course higher priced seats subsidize lower priced ones. Platinum pricing generates additional revenue they wouldn't have otherwise. If there were no platinum sales, they would have to raise the standard price to make the same amount of money 
    ok, prove it! Show me the money!

    1 ticket at $1000 + 9 tickets at $100 = $1900
    Now, take away the $1000 ticket.
    $1900 / 10 tickets = $190



    Pretty sure I saw more than 10 people at the show Thursday

    You think $1,000 was the average Premium price?

    I know my 10C ticket was more than $100

    And I doubt there's 9 10C members for every Premium ticket.

    Your numbers don't add up. Try again?
    I think the point was just to use numbers that are easy to put together

    I disagree. I don't think the numbers are so simple. 

    I think 10 club members are getting soaked with this new premium pricing and they don't even realize it. Which is why I'm asking for transparency.

    Or, maybe we should just trust Ticketmaster's and take their word for it. I'm sure Ticketmaster has our best interest in mind, right?
    They say 10% are premium. So for every 100 tickets, 90 sell @ 160 (14,400) and 10 sell at say 500 (5000), for a total of $19,400. Without premium, the total would be 16,000. Therefore, you would have to raise the price of standard tickets to $194 to make the same amount of money. The conclusion is that premium is subsidizing the standard tickets by allowing them to only charge 160. 


    How do you know premium tickets are averaging $500?

    And you're not including 10C annual dues.
    You're missing the point. Whether premiums average 200, 500, 1000, or any number in between, plug that number into the equation and adjust accordingly. However much additional revenue is generated by the differential between the premium price and regular price subsidizes the regular priced tickets. Without it, regular price would have to be higher to reach the same profit. 

    10c dues have nothing to do with it. Those exist regardless of whether some tickets are premium priced or not. 

    You're missing the point.

    I'm asking for transparency.

    10C tickets keep getting pushed to worse seats. And we're being told Premium tickets are subsidizing other ticket prices.

    Fine, let's see the proof. Because it's obvious we keep paying higher prices for worse seats each tour. And it feels like being taken advantage of. 
    I think you don't understand what subsidize means 
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,784
    JBob87 said:
    IMO a much bigger issue is 10C charging the same price for all tickets.

    A small group gets $500 market value tickets for a 70% discount...forever. A larger group overpays by 50-100% for nosebleeds. Obviously this is very much show dependant - at MSG, everyone who wins the lottery is getting a good deal. But when I hear about 10C members having to eat tickets and sell at massive losses to recoup money for the Chicago shows, it rubs me the wrong way.

    The terms of the club are what they are...and FWIW I fully support the seniority system. I think it's very fair to use to determine seat locations. But I'm not sure it's equitable to have one group of 10C members be massive financial winners and another essentially subsidizing this. 

    Its surprising how often fans here complain about TM yet ignore this point.

    It is catastrophically unfair to price the closest seats the same as those with views obstructed by the ceiling 

    And the unfairness is compounded by the seniority system and failure to disclose seat locations at the time the purchase price is paid.

    Its the worst concert ticketing system except for those smart enough to join 20+ years ago. 
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,519
    The people who complain about seniority despite now having a shot at GA and who complain about having to pay premium prices for access vs. no access at all will also complain if it becomes a total free for all and they still don't get the tickets they want in that system. If you try to cater to perpetual whiners you will always lose.
  • Mrsmaryallen
    Mrsmaryallen Issaquah Posts: 3
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .
  • BSully
    BSully Indiana Posts: 1,501
    Mrsmaryallen said:
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .
    What show are you trying to sell tickets for?
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  • PB11041
    PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,845
    Mrsmaryallen said:
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .
    Unfortunate, but it is very clear upfront that tickets are only going to move this way.  You can try to reach out to people and if you know and trust people you can just let them you use your TM account for the show, but I would only recommend doing that with friends you know and trust.  
    His eminence has yet to show. 
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  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,889
    Mrsmaryallen said:
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .
    I agree on the, you should be able to lower the price.   I'm very anti-reselling.   I'm ok with transfers being disable to try and reduce tickets being resold.  It could lead to resellers buying 10c memberships just to buy, sell/transfer the tickets.

    The more user friendly they make, the more you open it for resellers.

    I'm also shocked at how many people buy tickets they can't use.  In the 100's and 100's of concerts I've bought tickets too over the last 30 years, I missed 3 shows (Everclear, Foo Fighters, and Judas Priest).  The latter two due to illness, the first due to a lack of ambition.

    I'm ok with eating a pair a decade if reduces resellers getting access to them.
  • smile6680
    smile6680 Posts: 433
    The Ten Club and ticket pricing/system is a mess right now. Unfortunately they(the band, management, etc,) don't care. 

    It wasn't like this for many years. In the past I was super happy and would point out to other bands fans how great it was. It wasn't always over priced and broken. 
  • smile6680
    smile6680 Posts: 433
    Get_Right said:
    You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model. 
    I agree. I would point at the band more than Ticketmaster the last few tours. Ticketmaster will at least break down all their fees and policies if you are willing to read them. 
  • gotthebottle
    gotthebottle San Diego Posts: 3,730
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/13/live-nation-meeting-doj-antitrust-lawsuit-00157712
  • Eddieredder
    Eddieredder Posts: 753
    It won't matter. They will just pay out in unusable vouchers like last time. 
  • OceansJenny
    OceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,409
    Eddieredder said:
    It won't matter. They will just pay out in unusable vouchers like last time. 
    Those vouchers were such trash.
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  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,935
    OceansJenny said:
    Eddieredder said:
    It won't matter. They will just pay out in unusable vouchers like last time. 
    Those vouchers were such trash.
    You're not really being fair to trash. Sometimes, people throw away things that are still useful.
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,631
    BF25394 said:
    OceansJenny said:
    Eddieredder said:
    It won't matter. They will just pay out in unusable vouchers like last time. 
    Those vouchers were such trash.
    You're not really being fair to trash. Sometimes, people throw away things that are still useful.
    this
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • KJ228171
    KJ228171 Posts: 465
    Mrsmaryallen said:
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .

    Just put them up on Stubhub, Seat Geek, TicPiks or GameTime.  They all have work arounds by hosting the ticket on a website. They can't do a TM to TM transfer but they can upload the ticket with a rotating barcode and let the buyer use them. They put that system in full swing during U2's run at the Sphere where GA tickets where "non transferable" and verified resales only. Guess what? The 2nd hand tickets worked.
  • KJ228171
    KJ228171 Posts: 465
    smile6680 said:
    Get_Right said:
    You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model. 
    I agree. I would point at the band more than Ticketmaster the last few tours. Ticketmaster will at least break down all their fees and policies if you are willing to read them. 

    The misconception is that the ticket buyer is Ticketmaster's customer. They are not. Ticketmaster's customer is the artist, the promoter and the venue. They just happen to usually be the promoter and venue too.
  • SHZA
    SHZA St. Louis, MO USA Posts: 4,314
    edited May 2024
    KJ228171 said:
    Mrsmaryallen said:
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .

    Just put them up on Stubhub, Seat Geek, TicPiks or GameTime.  They all have work arounds by hosting the ticket on a website. They can't do a TM to TM transfer but they can upload the ticket with a rotating barcode and let the buyer use them. They put that system in full swing during U2's run at the Sphere where GA tickets where "non transferable" and verified resales only. Guess what? The 2nd hand tickets worked.
    I don't believe listing on stubhub etc would be viable unless you're a professional broker. Stubhub, seatgeek, etc are just the middleman. It's still the seller's responsibility to transfer the ticket to the buyer. The rotating barcode is not created by stubhub - it's created by the ticket broker who has that technology at their disposal. If the average fan makes a listing and doesn't have a way to create the barcode and transfer the ticket, stubhub is not going to help -- they'll just charge that person a fee for failing to deliver the ticket. Also, seatgeek requires a broker license to sell unless the tickets can be uploaded 
  • KJ228171
    KJ228171 Posts: 465
    SHZA said:
    KJ228171 said:
    Mrsmaryallen said:
    I'm frustrated because I can't make it to a show and my tickets aren't selling. I'd like the option to reduce the price but that isnt allowed.  I also cant transfer them (which I get is a feeding ground for scalpers) but in this case - I just dont want them to go to waste.  This is really not friendly to the customer. There should be a way to transfer ticketmaster to ticketmaster account AND a way to sell for lower than what you paid .

    Just put them up on Stubhub, Seat Geek, TicPiks or GameTime.  They all have work arounds by hosting the ticket on a website. They can't do a TM to TM transfer but they can upload the ticket with a rotating barcode and let the buyer use them. They put that system in full swing during U2's run at the Sphere where GA tickets where "non transferable" and verified resales only. Guess what? The 2nd hand tickets worked.
    I don't believe listing on stubhub etc would be viable unless you're a professional broker. Stubhub, seatgeek, etc are just the middleman. It's still the seller's responsibility to transfer the ticket to the buyer. The rotating barcode is not created by stubhub - it's created by the ticket broker who has that technology at their disposal. If the average fan makes a listing and doesn't have a way to create the barcode and transfer the ticket, stubhub is not going to help -- they'll just charge that person a fee for failing to deliver the ticket. Also, seatgeek requires a broker license to sell unless the tickets can be uploaded 

    Not at all. Stubhub, SeatGeek, et al handle the transfer. The seller does whatever they require to make the ticket available and they handle the backend stuff. Although a significant volume of brokers use them those places are built on everyday people listing tickets. I was just at a show Tuesday that was non-transfer but had plenty of tickets available on the resellers. It had been sold out for months but there were severe storms so people just unloaded tickets at whatever they could get. PIT tickets that cost $150 were available for $45. Those were not brokers.

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