The Fan Exchange scam

JZ280705

Notice how for Minnesota, a whole crop of tickets suddenly becomes available priced significant below the Premium tickets.  Not only are people scammed into buying these tickets thinking the show is sold out, the Face Value Exchange meant to prevent scalping, prohibits you from selling your ticket any cheaper.

I’ve been a fan club member for several years, never once got a seat that was good.  Unless you got your membership in the 90’s, it’s a waste.  Ticketmaster’s price manipulation and monopoly on the ticket industry has to end. Pearl Jam’s efforts to get fans tickets at reasonable prices is admirable, but only works if you have been a fan club member for decades or don’t mind crappy seats.

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan

If you're paying attention, they release tickets to every show day of and or a day or two before.  Just wait to buy your tickets until they either A - release more tickets for face value, B - drop the price on the PJ Premium tickets to face value or C - buy the best available tickets listed for face value exchange at actual face value.  If you buy PJ Premium tickets and you find out you cannot go a handful of days before the show, you are cooked because as you said, you can only list tickets for the price you paid.  If you pay for premium and you have to try and re-sell at the premium price while ticketmaster is dropping face value seats at the same time, good luck.

JZ280705

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

If you're paying attention, they release tickets to every show day of and or a day or two before.  Just wait to buy your tickets until they either A - release more tickets for face value, B - drop the price on the PJ Premium tickets to face value or C - buy the best available tickets listed for face value exchange at actual face value.  If you buy PJ Premium tickets and you find out you cannot go a handful of days before the show, you are cooked because as you said, you can only list tickets for the price you paid.  If you pay for premium and you have to try and re-sell at the premium price while ticketmaster is dropping face value seats at the same time, good luck.

At the day, their PJ Premium tickets are priced so high, they wouldn’t be bought by scalpers, and legit buyers get screwed.  They should just drop this system. Or just do it for fan club tickets.

gotthebottle

This was worse than usual for St Paul 1. 

Zod

This is how platinum tickets work.  When we were all younger the goal was for bands/promoters to blow out all their tickets immediately.  No one wanted to be left holding the bag if a concert didn't sell out.   As tickets were sold for less than market value, it crate the ripe environment for scalpers to exist and make money flipping the tickets.

It's different now as the goal switched from selling all the tickets right away, to maximizing the revenue.  Platinum tickets work by withholding a bunch of tickets, and try to use demand based pricing.  Trickle them out leading up to the show to get the maximum you can for the tickets.

The thing is if they don't sell enough of them, they're left holding a bunch of unsold tickets as the show approaches, so they blow them all out at face value or less.

There's some shows that are in such demand there isn't much left as the show approaches, but some shows the demand is less and there's a bunch.

I find this new system challenging because I have to travel to shows.  So waiting until the last few days to buy tickets is really a hard thing to do :(

but yah.. I guess the moral of the story is don't buy platinum tickets, and only buy 10c tickets you intend to use?

Weston1283

Even if you could lower the price…. Tickets for tonight would be going for 20-30 bucks in the 300 levels, and they MIGHT sell at that

This is 2023.  Tickets are down, merch is down, posters are down.  

This isn’t the PJ we had 5-7 years ago.  Everything is different now.  This was seen many times during the 2022 tour and already in 2023.  

It sucks if you can’t make it last minute, but even if you could adjust the price, you would likely be eating 50-80% of the ticket cost anyway

josevolution

For me if I score tickets through 10C I go! Otherwise I don’t I’m done trying every way to get into a show. 

OceansJenny

Yes - love it when your can’t price your OWN tickets lower, but TM can drop their prices. And you can’t sell them outside of F2F.

More restrictions is not better.

Gern Blansten

This is Chicago Night 1, sec 121...the four tickets together in row 9 pricing is as follows

the two aisles tix are F2F at $638.42/each, the two next to them are PJ Premium at $406.40.

That's bullshit...I know they are aisle seats but for TM to sell those two and then dump the $406.40 is fucked up

The top rows are also PJ Premium...at $349 except for the very top row which are $292

Gern Blansten

And the poor people that paid $925.15 for tix in Sec F Row G....with Sec C Premium tix going for the same price

JZ280705

At the end of the day, the only fans that win, are those that good good seats through the fan club. Been paying dues for 8 years and it’s been a waste.  I was a member 20 years ago for a few years and quit for the same reason.

JZ280705

Weston1283 said:

It sucks if you can’t make it last minute, but even if you could adjust the price, you would likely be eating 50-80% of the ticket cost anyway

With the way these tickets are structured, it’s binary. Either get your money back or lose 100%.  Last tour I bought two great seats for Fresno thinking I’d have no problem reselling if couldn’t go and lost $500.  By showtime there was tons of tickets.  

HailHailVitalogy

For those saying the fan club is a waste. Our dues were $20-30 a year and now $35. I’d gladly continue to pay that to have the opportunity to get into MSG, or TD Garden or even just GA if they make that an only option again. Everything else is totally understandable. And I’d rather have people sell for a 70-80% loss so that the place is full. A casual fan isn’t dropping $162 to sit in the upper deck for their first PJ experience.

But yes, what TM is doing is utterly scamming people.

JZ280705

Zod said:

This is how platinum tickets work.  When we were all younger the goal was for bands/promoters to blow out all their tickets immediately.  No one wanted to be left holding the bag if a concert didn't sell out.   As tickets were sold for less than market value, it crate the ripe environment for scalpers to exist and make money flipping the tickets.

It's different now as the goal switched from selling all the tickets right away, to maximizing the revenue.  Platinum tickets work by withholding a bunch of tickets, and try to use demand based pricing.  Trickle them out leading up to the show to get the maximum you can for the tickets.

The thing is if they don't sell enough of them, they're left holding a bunch of unsold tickets as the show approaches, so they blow them all out at face value or less.

There's some shows that are in such demand there isn't much left as the show approaches, but some shows the demand is less and there's a bunch.

I find this new system challenging because I have to travel to shows.  So waiting until the last few days to buy tickets is really a hard thing to do :(

but yah.. I guess the moral of the story is don't buy platinum tickets, and only buy 10c tickets you intend to use?

I too travel for shows.  Because the US is such a tough ticket, I went to Amsterdam last year and London 5 years ago, and Eddie’s voice caused last minute cancellations. I got to venue only to be told the show was cancelled for both cities. I live in NC and they cancelled a show here 7 years ago because the state wouldn’t allow guys to use girls bathrooms.  

pjl44

As someone who has lost the lottery.more than once for a show I 100% would go to, I'm fully behind any policies that disincentivize "buy now, figure it out later"

JZ280705

HailHailVitalogy said:

For those saying the fan club is a waste. Our dues were $20-30 a year and now $35. I’d gladly continue to pay that to have the opportunity to get into MSG, or TD Garden or even just GA if they make that an only option again. Everything else is totally understandable. And I’d rather have people sell for a 70-80% loss so that the place is full. A casual fan isn’t dropping $162 to sit in the upper deck for their first PJ experience.

But yes, what TM is doing is utterly scamming people.

If you’re okay with sitting in bad seats then you are correct.  But I’d rather not go than sit in terrible seats.  The face value exchange is a joke.  It’s not stopping price gauging.  It’s giving Ticketmaster the monopoly to manipulate the prices.  I’d rather PJ do market pricing without the platinum bullshit, and give 10cc more options on the presale.  MSG is the only venue where seats behind the stage sell for $1000 on resale.  I lived in NYC and would fly to other cities to see shows because prices are just ridiculous.  

HailHailVitalogy

JZ280705 said:

HailHailVitalogy said:

For those saying the fan club is a waste. Our dues were $20-30 a year and now $35. I’d gladly continue to pay that to have the opportunity to get into MSG, or TD Garden or even just GA if they make that an only option again. Everything else is totally understandable. And I’d rather have people sell for a 70-80% loss so that the place is full. A casual fan isn’t dropping $162 to sit in the upper deck for their first PJ experience.

But yes, what TM is doing is utterly scamming people.

If you’re okay with sitting in bad seats then you are correct.  But I’d rather not go than sit in terrible seats.  The face value exchange is a joke.  It’s not stopping price gauging.  It’s giving Ticketmaster the monopoly to manipulate the prices.  I’d rather PJ do market pricing without the platinum bullshit, and give 10cc more options on the presale.  MSG is the only venue where seats behind the stage sell for $1000 on resale.  I lived in NYC and would fly to other cities to see shows because prices are just ridiculous.  

Personally I would have been happy in any seat at MSG last year that wasn’t the bridge seats or 400s behind the stage. I ended up winning GA. I’m just saying the membership fee is worth it just for the chance to get into that particular building.

Bentleyspop

Keep in mind that none of the ticket selling or pricing happens in a vacuum.
Band and band management are well aware from the beginning and have signed off on it.
Not a scam if you know it's happening and you play along. 

JimmyV

Bentleyspop said:

Keep in mind that none of the ticket selling or pricing happens in a vacuum.
Band and band management are well aware from the beginning and have signed off on it.
Not a scam if you know it's happening and you play along. 

Yep. 

BF25394

JZ280705 said:

 I live in NC and they cancelled a show here 7 years ago because the state wouldn’t allow transgender women to use girls bathrooms.  

Fixed this for you.

Zod

I do wonder.  How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets.  It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face.   How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.


I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread.   Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable.   It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets.  It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets.  Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

hihobibo

Zod said:

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable.   It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets.  It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets.  Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Agree. Literally right after they drew tickets (for the 2nd time) people were looking to drop their tickets.

I liked picking them up at will call with ID and getting a surprise about where the seats were. 

Zod

hihobibo said:

Zod said:

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable.   It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets.  It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets.  Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Agree. Literally right after they drew tickets (for the 2nd time) people were looking to drop their tickets.

I liked picking them up at will call with ID and getting a surprise about where the seats were. 

I like the aspect of knowing the location, because sometimes the tickets were in worse location than I was expecting.  Like last tour I was row 12.  I must of gained some seniority, oh damn this time I'm row 22.  Be a little bummed about location when going to the show, instead of it being water under the bridge when you go.

I guess the disposable ticket thing was much less back then, because you had a short window to get the tickets then dispose of the tickets.  

I'd almost rather that do what the did in 2018, and tickets weren't transferrable or sellable.  I've gone to hundreds of concerts in my life and I think I've missed 2... probably a small price to pay, cause it's kind of a mess now.

JZ280705

BF25394 said:

JZ280705 said:

 I live in NC and they cancelled a show here 7 years ago because the state wouldn’t allow transgender women to use girls bathrooms.  

Fixed this for you.

Like “her”?

https://nypost.com/2023/05/16/university-of-wyoming-sorority-sisters-say-they-live-in-fear-of-trans-member/amp/

mcgruff10

@Weston1283 where did you see tickets for $20 and $30?  On ticketmaster?

mcgruff10

Every show drops tickets, you just have to be patient.  It sucks but it is what it is.  I for one would never pay a premium price to see any band.  

CM189191

Zod said:

I do wonder.  How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets.  It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face.   How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.


I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread.   Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable.   It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets.  It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets.  Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Since 10C seats keep getting pushed further back, more transparency would be nice.

Claim that Premium tickets subsidize 10C tickets?  ok, prove it!  Show me the money!

dmbolp

mcgruff10 said:

@Weston1283 where did you see tickets for $20 and $30?  On ticketmaster?

Think he was speculating what the price would get down to IF you could lower F2F price:

"Even if you could lower the price…. Tickets for tonight would be going for 20-30 bucks in the 300 levels, and they MIGHT sell at that

This is 2023.  Tickets are down, merch is down, posters are down.  

BF25394

JZ280705 said:

BF25394 said:

JZ280705 said:

 I live in NC and they cancelled a show here 7 years ago because the state wouldn’t allow transgender women to use girls bathrooms.  

Fixed this for you.

Like “her”?

https://nypost.com/2023/05/16/university-of-wyoming-sorority-sisters-say-they-live-in-fear-of-trans-member/amp/

The allegations in that lawsuit do not have any bearing on the reality that the overwhelming majority of transgender women are just trying to live their lives without being subject to discrimination and abuse, including the abuse they might suffer if, despite appearing to all the world as a woman, they are forced to use men's bathrooms. Statements like the one in your original post ignore this reality. You can't write transgender people out of existence by facilely stating that the issue was about "men using girls [sic] bathrooms."

If a person of any gender goes into a women's bathroom and engages in inappropriate behavior, there are already laws to deal with that. In the meantime, transgender women use women's bathrooms every day and hardly anyone even notices. Criminalizing those women in the hopes of preventing theoretical harms by people whose behavior would already be illegal makes no sense.

JZ280705

dmbolp said:

mcgruff10 said: This is 2023.  Tickets are down, merch is down, posters are down.  

Don’t understand this comment.  This is a record year for ticket prices.  They are least twice what they were pre COVID.  Live Nation/Ticketmaster is making tons of money with their monopoly/price manipulation tactics.

JZ280705

BF25394 said:

JZ280705 said:

BF25394 said:

JZ280705 said:

 I live in NC and they cancelled a show here 7 years ago because the state wouldn’t allow transgender women to use girls bathrooms.  

Fixed this for you.

Like “her”?

https://nypost.com/2023/05/16/university-of-wyoming-sorority-sisters-say-they-live-in-fear-of-trans-member/amp/

The allegations in that lawsuit do not have any bearing on the reality that the overwhelming majority of transgender women are just trying to live their lives without being subject to discrimination and abuse, including the abuse they might suffer if, despite appearing to all the world as a woman, they are forced to use men's bathrooms. Statements like the one in your original post ignore this reality. You can't write transgender people out of existence by facilely stating that the issue was about "men using girls [sic] bathrooms."

If a person of any gender goes into a women's bathroom and engages in inappropriate behavior, there are already laws to deal with that. In the meantime, transgender women use women's bathrooms every day and hardly anyone even notices. Criminalizing those women in the hopes of preventing theoretical harms by people whose behavior would already be illegal makes no sense.

Whatever the case, it’s an absolutely ridiculous thing to cancel a concert over.  It doesn’t do anything but disappoint fans.  It accomplishes nothing.  It’s like climate protesters pissing off people by blocking traffic.