Viruses / Vaccines 2

Ok mate. Great reply

Sencible approach Brian. I agree

brianlux said:

There is a ton of hyperbole and drama coming out of the anti-vax camp and most of that should just be ignored.  Any rational person understands the value of good science and solid evidence. 
But on the other hand, I think there is very good cause to suggest that COVID vaccinations need to be studied very closely and that simply assuming nothing is wrong with them is also not a wise approach.  Because they are so new and were produced so rapidly, we don't know what the long term affects of these vaccines are.  But say something like that, and immediately a lot of people will assume you are a conspiracy laden anti-vaxer.  That's what happened with RFK Jr and yet if you listen to some of his interviews on the topic, you'll see he is not a conspiracy anti-vaxer.  No, he's like me, suggesting that more research needs to be done.

I will admit, my own hesitation to be skeptical of the latest COVID vaccinations stems from my current rapid decline in health that start immediately with the last vaccination I got in October 2023.  I do KNOW that the vaccination was the cause, but it is suspect. 
All I'm saying is, lets stop being so one sided here.  It's like everything else these days- all or nothing, black and white, my side or your side.  Jesus, division seems to define our very society these days.  That's neither wise nor helpful.

RFK is kind of anti-vaxxer adjacent. he sows distrust in current vaccines, like jenny mccarthy, about the dangers of child vaccinations and that vaxes cause autism. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/15/politics/robert-kennedy-covid-vaccine-antisemitism/index.html

he also stated that said Covid-19 was “ethnically targeted” to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people. 

he says "there is no vaccine that is safe and effective". 

Kennedy rejected the label that he’s “anti-vaccine” despite his long history of spreading misinformation about the efficacy of vaccines. When presented with a prior interview in which he said that “there is no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective,” Kennedy argued that his comments were meant to advocate greater research of vaccines while conceding that his previous remark was “a bad use of words.”

“I can say right now there is no medicine for cancer that’s safe and effective. It doesn’t mean I’m against all medicines. I’ve been fighting for two years to get mercury out of fish. Nobody calls me anti-fish,” Kennedy said.

Kennedy has been a leading proponent of vaccine misinformation through his organization Children’s Health Defense and has spent years wrongly suggesting that many vaccines are not safe. He falsely said that hepatitis B vaccines are “causing more problems than they’re solving” and stated he would be against schoolchildren being required to be vaccinated “for any vaccines.”

brianlux said:

There is a ton of hyperbole and drama coming out of the anti-vax camp and most of that should just be ignored.  Any rational person understands the value of good science and solid evidence. 
But on the other hand, I think there is very good cause to suggest that COVID vaccinations need to be studied very closely and that simply assuming nothing is wrong with them is also not a wise approach.  Because they are so new and were produced so rapidly, we don't know what the long term affects of these vaccines are.  But say something like that, and immediately a lot of people will assume you are a conspiracy laden anti-vaxer.  That's what happened with RFK Jr and yet if you listen to some of his interviews on the topic, you'll see he is not a conspiracy anti-vaxer.  No, he's like me, suggesting that more research needs to be done.

I will admit, my own hesitation to be skeptical of the latest COVID vaccinations stems from my current rapid decline in health that start immediately with the last vaccination I got in October 2023.  I do KNOW that the vaccination was the cause, but it is suspect. 
All I'm saying is, lets stop being so one sided here.  It's like everything else these days- all or nothing, black and white, my side or your side.  Jesus, division seems to define our very society these days.  That's neither wise nor helpful.

RFK has a long history of being an actual anti-vaxxer, not just someone saying "hey let's take a pause on Covid vaccine and see what the long term effects are".  No, that's not his historic message on this topic.  Covid just brought his nutty views into the mainstream. 

Second, I think the Covid vaccine, at this point, should be taken by people at high risk for co-morbidities.  I think we can all see that the disease has mutated to the point of not being nearly as deadly as the original virus.

Third, none of that is even in the vicinity of claiming that mRNA alters your DNA.  This technology has been around since the 60's, studied, developed and it is the basis of the Ebola vaccines.  It is not new.  People (like Tucker) that are saying this are a menace and dangerous.  Fuck them.  I'll say it 10x over.  Fuck them and Fuck him.  He's a disgrace.  

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

There is a ton of hyperbole and drama coming out of the anti-vax camp and most of that should just be ignored.  Any rational person understands the value of good science and solid evidence. 
But on the other hand, I think there is very good cause to suggest that COVID vaccinations need to be studied very closely and that simply assuming nothing is wrong with them is also not a wise approach.  Because they are so new and were produced so rapidly, we don't know what the long term affects of these vaccines are.  But say something like that, and immediately a lot of people will assume you are a conspiracy laden anti-vaxer.  That's what happened with RFK Jr and yet if you listen to some of his interviews on the topic, you'll see he is not a conspiracy anti-vaxer.  No, he's like me, suggesting that more research needs to be done.

I will admit, my own hesitation to be skeptical of the latest COVID vaccinations stems from my current rapid decline in health that start immediately with the last vaccination I got in October 2023.  I do KNOW that the vaccination was the cause, but it is suspect. 
All I'm saying is, lets stop being so one sided here.  It's like everything else these days- all or nothing, black and white, my side or your side.  Jesus, division seems to define our very society these days.  That's neither wise nor helpful.

RFK is kind of anti-vaxxer adjacent. he sows distrust in current vaccines, like jenny mccarthy, about the dangers of child vaccinations and that vaxes cause autism. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/15/politics/robert-kennedy-covid-vaccine-antisemitism/index.html

he also stated that said Covid-19 was “ethnically targeted” to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people. 

he says "there is no vaccine that is safe and effective". 

Kennedy rejected the label that he’s “anti-vaccine” despite his long history of spreading misinformation about the efficacy of vaccines. When presented with a prior interview in which he said that “there is no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective,” Kennedy argued that his comments were meant to advocate greater research of vaccines while conceding that his previous remark was “a bad use of words.”

“I can say right now there is no medicine for cancer that’s safe and effective. It doesn’t mean I’m against all medicines. I’ve been fighting for two years to get mercury out of fish. Nobody calls me anti-fish,” Kennedy said.

Kennedy has been a leading proponent of vaccine misinformation through his organization Children’s Health Defense and has spent years wrongly suggesting that many vaccines are not safe. He falsely said that hepatitis B vaccines are “causing more problems than they’re solving” and stated he would be against schoolchildren being required to be vaccinated “for any vaccines.”

I should have left RFK out of it.  Killed my whole point.  Sorry.

it didn't. I think you're right, that to some, if you even question something, you get a label. this happens now in many facets of life (I remember being called a Trump supporter here FFS). and I totally understand your line of thinking about it given your current struggles. I guess I just assume that these things are constantly being studied and monitored by the scientific community. I highly doubt that they are just leaving it behind. 

And I don't think most critical thinkers are assuming nothing is wrong with the vaccines. We know that vaccine injuries happen, but they are rare. I will embrace whatever facts come out when they come out. 

Well said

lastexitlondon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

you guys are running way too far with this particular mischaracterization of what rob said. 

And this is why the same people rattle around in here. Nobody can speak or discuss without being labelled some kind of anti Vax or nut. It's embarrassing 

Consider that you come across as disingenuine with your posts when you say you’re objective, you don’t believe in much, everything is just an opinion, yet truth is truth and people in the field should be listened to. 

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

There is a ton of hyperbole and drama coming out of the anti-vax camp and most of that should just be ignored.  Any rational person understands the value of good science and solid evidence. 
But on the other hand, I think there is very good cause to suggest that COVID vaccinations need to be studied very closely and that simply assuming nothing is wrong with them is also not a wise approach.  Because they are so new and were produced so rapidly, we don't know what the long term affects of these vaccines are.  But say something like that, and immediately a lot of people will assume you are a conspiracy laden anti-vaxer.  That's what happened with RFK Jr and yet if you listen to some of his interviews on the topic, you'll see he is not a conspiracy anti-vaxer.  No, he's like me, suggesting that more research needs to be done.

I will admit, my own hesitation to be skeptical of the latest COVID vaccinations stems from my current rapid decline in health that start immediately with the last vaccination I got in October 2023.  I do KNOW that the vaccination was the cause, but it is suspect. 
All I'm saying is, lets stop being so one sided here.  It's like everything else these days- all or nothing, black and white, my side or your side.  Jesus, division seems to define our very society these days.  That's neither wise nor helpful.

RFK has a long history of being an actual anti-vaxxer, not just someone saying "hey let's take a pause on Covid vaccine and see what the long term effects are".  No, that's not his historic message on this topic.  Covid just brought his nutty views into the mainstream. 

Second, I think the Covid vaccine, at this point, should be taken by people at high risk for co-morbidities.  I think we can all see that the disease has mutated to the point of not being nearly as deadly as the original virus.

Third, none of that is even in the vicinity of claiming that mRNA alters your DNA.  This technology has been around since the 60's, studied, developed and it is the basis of the Ebola vaccines.  It is not new.  People (like Tucker) that are saying this are a menace and dangerous.  Fuck them.  I'll say it 10x over.  Fuck them and Fuck him.  He's a disgrace.  

As I said, I should NOT have mentioned RFK Jr.

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

There is a ton of hyperbole and drama coming out of the anti-vax camp and most of that should just be ignored.  Any rational person understands the value of good science and solid evidence. 
But on the other hand, I think there is very good cause to suggest that COVID vaccinations need to be studied very closely and that simply assuming nothing is wrong with them is also not a wise approach.  Because they are so new and were produced so rapidly, we don't know what the long term affects of these vaccines are.  But say something like that, and immediately a lot of people will assume you are a conspiracy laden anti-vaxer.  That's what happened with RFK Jr and yet if you listen to some of his interviews on the topic, you'll see he is not a conspiracy anti-vaxer.  No, he's like me, suggesting that more research needs to be done.

I will admit, my own hesitation to be skeptical of the latest COVID vaccinations stems from my current rapid decline in health that start immediately with the last vaccination I got in October 2023.  I do KNOW that the vaccination was the cause, but it is suspect. 
All I'm saying is, lets stop being so one sided here.  It's like everything else these days- all or nothing, black and white, my side or your side.  Jesus, division seems to define our very society these days.  That's neither wise nor helpful.

RFK is kind of anti-vaxxer adjacent. he sows distrust in current vaccines, like jenny mccarthy, about the dangers of child vaccinations and that vaxes cause autism. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/15/politics/robert-kennedy-covid-vaccine-antisemitism/index.html

he also stated that said Covid-19 was “ethnically targeted” to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people. 

he says "there is no vaccine that is safe and effective". 

Kennedy rejected the label that he’s “anti-vaccine” despite his long history of spreading misinformation about the efficacy of vaccines. When presented with a prior interview in which he said that “there is no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective,” Kennedy argued that his comments were meant to advocate greater research of vaccines while conceding that his previous remark was “a bad use of words.”

“I can say right now there is no medicine for cancer that’s safe and effective. It doesn’t mean I’m against all medicines. I’ve been fighting for two years to get mercury out of fish. Nobody calls me anti-fish,” Kennedy said.

Kennedy has been a leading proponent of vaccine misinformation through his organization Children’s Health Defense and has spent years wrongly suggesting that many vaccines are not safe. He falsely said that hepatitis B vaccines are “causing more problems than they’re solving” and stated he would be against schoolchildren being required to be vaccinated “for any vaccines.”

I should have left RFK out of it.  Killed my whole point.  Sorry.

it didn't. I think you're right, that to some, if you even question something, you get a label. this happens now in many facets of life (I remember being called a Trump supporter here FFS). and I totally understand your line of thinking about it given your current struggles. I guess I just assume that these things are constantly being studied and monitored by the scientific community. I highly doubt that they are just leaving it behind. 

And I don't think most critical thinkers are assuming nothing is wrong with the vaccines. We know that vaccine injuries happen, but they are rare. I will embrace whatever facts come out when they come out. 

I hope (and suspect) you are right about the vaccines being monitored. I'm just not convinced we know enough this early. Maybe I'm just too suspect of things these days, but it sure seems to me like not much runs well anymore.  Things break down faster than they used to.  Phones do more but are not as reliable or audibly clear as they used to be, etc.  We live longer but there is more disease.  It's all a confusing mess. 

I would certainly hope that capitalism differs greatly in function from science. things break down quicker because it makes sense for the producing company to make you need another one faster than before. 

sure, there's obviously profit in "big pharma", but you can't cut corners and have a treatment be developed properly these days. there's just too many checks in place for that. we'll never have a thalidomide again. 

lastexitlondon said:

We are still all learning what will happen as others said above. Time is the only way to see where it all goes next 

We are not learning if the Covid vaccine alters your DNA.  We know it doesn't.  That's truth.  That's not difficult to test. 

Go Beavers said:

lastexitlondon said:

Well all anyone says here is an opinion. As nobody here is a medical professional and truth is truth
 What's your point I don't understand. Im happy to read anything and learn.

There’s opinions and there’s informed opinions, and they aren’t the same thing. When you’re posting about the vaccine, you obviously also have opinions along with it but then try to backpedal out of it and claim you’re innocently just asking questions. 

Not at all I don't have to pretend anything. I am interested in any news about this subject it's ok with me if I find it interesting something seems to be suggested I don't have to please yours or any other members criteria. I actually found it interesting and that's what I said