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  • Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    mrussel1 said:
    I agree that many progressives either ignore or do not understand how illiberal these Muslim countries are.  It's one of the many paradoxes in the region.  

    I still don't yell at kids for being young and uniformed. 
    Well, that explains why you're not shifting hearts and minds like Lerxst here (just a joke - I don't actually think anyone here is shifting hearts or minds - but that's not really the point of modern debate, everybody knows it's so that you can leave a room feeling morally superior and accomplish nothing).
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  • Posts: 44,766
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 9,618
    mrussel1 said:
    I agree that many progressives either ignore or do not understand how illiberal these Muslim countries are.  It's one of the many paradoxes in the region.  

    I still don't yell at kids for being young and uniformed. 
    Regardless of their knowledge level, it’s just another cheap attempt by the right wing to discredit anyone who disagrees and gatekeep the dialogue. Watching republicans be critical of other countries lack of democracy and intolerance is comical to say the least.  ‘Oh, looky at the Iranian women in the before and after photos, now wearing burkas’ while they excitedly pass abortion bans. 
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 30,918
    Regardless of their knowledge level, it’s just another cheap attempt by the right wing to discredit anyone who disagrees and gatekeep the dialogue. Watching republicans be critical of other countries lack of democracy and intolerance is comical to say the least.  ‘Oh, looky at the Iranian women in the before and after photos, now wearing burkas’ while they excitedly pass abortion bans. 
    I agree with this.  
  • Posts: 5,147

    This is where Internet forums are so difficult. I was referring to the liberal kids taking sides with a group of people who have never shown any respect for democracy or tolerance of people different from them. Is that factually incorrect? Are the majority of Muslims in the Middle East and Palestine  tolerant of LGBT, or other races or other religions ? Is there a known history of their tolerance of others? Is there a history where these peoples have shown a tolerance or even an interest in democracy? Maybe cooperman is wrong, and I shouldn’t have piggybacked on that sentiment.

    A lot of that “squalor” can be directly tied to the second intifada, which would be a very lengthy discussion. Shortly stated, a lot of their economic depression can be directly tied to the failure by them to support Oslo. I know the reality is more complex.

    I am not saying they should not be treated well and I am hopeful the ME quagmire can be improved for all.  I have repeatedly said on this forum peace needs to be negotiated and both sides need to give, but the first step is Palestine needs  to join its Arab neighbors in fully recognizing Israel’s right to peacefully exist. My hope is if any comments of mine are read, that it be interpreted within this context.

    As far as trump 24, that’s a bit of a stretch. Thankfully Biden has been a very strong supporter of Israel, but as you likely know, the democratic base is much more complex than the gop who almost all blindly follow their leader. IMO Biden can not win without the support of the Jews and I read earlier ME people in Michigan are angry at Biden.
    Thanks for the clarification.  The let the liberals... remark really had me wondering where you were heading.  Definitely an easy statement to be misconstrued.
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  • Posts: 44,766
    edited November 2023
    static111 said:
    Thanks for the clarification.  The let the liberals... remark really had me wondering where you were heading.  Definitely an easy statement to be misconstrued.

    Funny, PLO/ Palestine Authority/Fatah HAS recognized Israels right to exist, have they not?
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:

    Funny, Palestine Authority/Fatah HAS recognized Israels right to exist, have they not?
    Along with a lack of acknowledgement of the role Rabin’s assassination and Bibi’s exploitation of the schism between Fatah and Hamas has played in the history from the 2nd intifada to today. Bibi, and by extension, Israeli voters, miscalculated manipulating that schism the way the Israeli government did. Some might call it “blowback.”
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  • Posts: 30,918
    Along with a lack of acknowledgement of the role Rabin’s assassination and Bibi’s exploitation of the schism between Fatah and Hamas has played in the history from the 2nd intifada to today. Bibi, and by extension, Israeli voters, miscalculated manipulating that schism the way the Israelite government did. Some might call it “blowback.”
    And the victims of the massacre had no role in any of those things.  Therefore they aren't defensible "reasons".
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • My boy Santos will run for reelection and win, watch...
  • Posts: 30,918
    My boy Santos will run for reelection and win, watch...
    He's going to be in jail. 
  • Posts: 44,766
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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