GOP

benjs · November 2023

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/business/leon-cooperman-students-israel-protests/index.html
Hedge fund billionaire Leon Cooperman is blasting college students for protesting against Israel, joining a growing list of powerful university donors to speak out on the issue.
“These kids in college have sh*t for brains,” Cooperman told CNN in a phone interview.

We need to ban college. Every student should be jailed. Then we can finally ban kids.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/us/cornell-university-antisemitic-threats-thursday/index.html

Hey I get the sarcasm, but we literally have “liberal” college students at Cornell this week chanting in support of ethic cleansing by citing the River to sea song. Are we going to state they don’t understand what they are singing for? If so, yes they should be banned.

no race or group of people has been ethnically cleansed more than the Israelis and Jews. Yet you read this forum, and there is only crying about a direct retaliation to a 9/11 level attack on Israel. Why is this country treated differently ? Why is it ok to sing about ethnic cleaning against Israel - that is clear in the first few seconds of the video attached to that news article? Why are no liberals here demanding Hamas surrender?

it’s sad that I need to stand with our conservative posters. Yes we should ban the college kids who are learning this hatred from somewhere.

JB is 100% correct. Either the students are singing in support of ethnic cleansing, or they have $hit for brains. Which is it?

BTW - I don't totally agree with your positioning of River to Sea to be an ethnic cleansing song. That song has been in use for generations, even before Hamas and others adopted it. It can viewed a number of ways, as a Free Palestine, Single state solution, or in worse cases, the removal of Jews. And then finally, your adoption which is ethnic cleansing. So to be clear, I don't believe for one fucking second that every student that supports Palestine at these rallies is pro-genocide. That's absurd.

it’s not my positioning, its a well known, controversial slogan that at best is at odds with peace. I am only referring about those students singing a song of fucking hatred. And two of your three interpretations apparently imply the removal of Israelis, so if that's not cleansing, if you think it’s absurd, where are they going to live, if not between the river and the sea?

Glad the liberals are so woke.

I don't think you know what ethnic cleansing means. For example, in the 19th century, there was a serious movement to relocate Africans to Liberia. Under your definition, it appears you think that's cleansing. It's not. What Milosevic tried is cleansing. Don't call me woke because you either misunderstand or choose not to understand differences in words.

Woke was a comment at the liberal side of the forum, to no one in specific. I should have been more specific

Yes,I used the term cleansing loosely, because of the history of the Jews in WWII as well as their fate against the Romans. And the history of the world clearly not accepting these people anywhere is well documented, so I think that thought process is well justified in this case, as relocation anywhere other than Israel has been impossible

However, back to the main point, to see wealthy college students barely old enough to shave singing the current chants inspired by Hamas was horrifying, whether or not prior generations claim to have some sort of more benevolent inspiration for that jingle.

If Israelis believe that song is about the entire destruction of their homeland, is it not horrifying seeing crowds of rich American kids chant it? That’s the woke angle, and it’s directed at all the liberals here. No one was outraged here Oct seven, and no one was outraged to hear wealthy college kids sing that offensive song. DEI supposedly tells us to consider how words are interpreted, except in one case in the far left world.

Well the last admonishment on words here is interesting, as you didn't consider the proper definition of ethnic cleansing. Removal from a land is not cleansing. Using a term like ethnic cleansing "loosely" is irresponsible. Let's also be clear that I support the right of Israel to exist, peacefully.

So back to the point, I again think you are misrepresenting the song. It's not a Hamas inspired song. I'm pretty sure this song existed as a Palestinian freedom song well before the advent of Hamas. You can check me on that. I do know that Hamas was formed in the late 80s. So if that's true, then I don't know how you say that it's Hamas-inspired. Therefore, because the song is used in many ways, to conclude that these college kids think Jews should be murdered en masse because they sing that song, is a HUGE jump and now you are claiming to understand what every one of these kids both think and believe. And sorry, you can't do that.

wiki is not perfect, but does provide facts supporting both contentions. I brought up “woke” because college students can be thought of as major supporters of woke values. I am not using woke like republicans do, I am pointing out the student demo usually cares about emotions or feelings, how words are perceived by victims…well except in the case of one group of people apparently.

2% of the population, 40% of the hate crimes. I think BLM might be jealous.

My point is, if students are publicly protesting, it is their responsibility to understand the words they utter and woke values tells us to consider how our words are received

The short answer from the original point back when JB kicked this off, is probably the kids have $hit for brains (and don’t realize how evil their words are received by the Israeli people), because they have no idea what they are chanting about, and their parents are wasting $100k a year on their $hitty education.

..

” From the river to the sea" (Arabic: من النهر إلى البحر, romanized: min an-nahr ’ilā l-baḥr) is a political slogan associated with Palestinian nationalism. The slogan refers geographically to the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, which includes the State of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip.[1][2]
The slogan has been employed by political groups since the 1960s to advocate for Palestinian liberation, with origins in the Palestinian National Council's initial charters, which demand a Palestinian state geographically encompassing all of historic Palestine. The slogan's meaning is contentious. Some construe it as a call for the dismantling of the Jewish state. Conversely, the slogan may be interpreted as advocating for a democratic state of Palestine encompassing what is today Israel and the Palestinian territories, where individuals of all religions would have equal citizenship.[1][3][4]
The slogan has been used by militant groups including Hamasand Islamic Jihad that have vowed to destroy Israel. It is regarded by the ADL as antisemitic or hate speech suggesting that it denies the right of Jews for self-determination, or advocates for their removal or extermination.

So let's get back to the pejorative of "shit for brains". That's what I have a real problem with in this whole conversation. I think using a statement like that is ridiculous and lazy. That's why I have picked this fight. I think that many, maybe even most of these students do not understand the whole history of the Jews, or the Palestinians for that matter. But most of them grew up in an era of right wing Likud gov't and it's very easy to see them as the bad guy. And in many cases, they have been. That doesn't excuse Hamas and they are clearly worse, without question. But kids are just that. Kids. They aren't "shit for brains". They shouldn't be banned and they shouldn't demonized and assumed that every one of them that sings this ambiguous song thinks that Jews should be wiped off the Earth. That's what is absurd.

So my experience with you as that you are a smart, measured poster. Signing on to the bullshit rhetoric from posters like JB who use extreme terms without regard for the meaning or ramifications does you a disservice. Take that for what it is. I appreciate the passion you have for Israel. I feel the same for Ukraine. But that's a much simpler situation and easier to identify what is right and wrong, morally.

Also, your comment about the 100k education. I bet very, very few of these protesters has any formal education or classes in Middle Eastern politics. It's not going to be part of core curriculum. So anyone that has studied it is likely on a history track or something similar. In other words, a distinct minority. Their understanding is not coming from the education side of the university. That's just my opinion, having sent two kids through college recently (including one that is a history major).

I was quoting what Leon Cooperman said. I never gave my opinion on this and you are incorrectly citing that it was my quote.

A bit of a cop out JB, no? That’s your right.

Might as well put the full quote which makes a lot more sense than the divisive excerpt originally posted on the forum, and let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that never have shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance.

"These kids at the colleges have s--- for brains," Cooperman told "The Claman Countdown" host Liz Claman on Wednesday. "We have one reliable ally in the Middle East. That's Israel. We only have one democracy in the Middle East. That's Israel. And we have one economy tolerant of different people, gays, lesbians, etc. That's Israel. So they have no idea what these young kids are doing."

I agree that many progressives either ignore or do not understand how illiberal these Muslim countries are. It's one of the many paradoxes in the region.

I still don't yell at kids for being young and uniformed.

Well, that explains why you're not shifting hearts and minds like Lerxst here (just a joke - I don't actually think anyone here is shifting hearts or minds - but that's not really the point of modern debate, everybody knows it's so that you can leave a room feeling morally superior and accomplish nothing).

mickeyrat · November 2023

https://twitter.com/acnewsitics/status/1720585135039656114?t=AVG3FryMFoolX3pFD7TtQw&s=19

mickeyrat · November 2023

https://twitter.com/realTuckFrumper/status/1720598022831394909?t=H_EnSWLP0uCtYj-BxlcYKQ&s=19

mickeyrat · November 2023

https://twitter.com/smalls2672/status/1720085805178503677?t=EtfBR_KJqmQSws_gUAsJ1g&s=19

Go Beavers · November 2023

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/business/leon-cooperman-students-israel-protests/index.html
Hedge fund billionaire Leon Cooperman is blasting college students for protesting against Israel, joining a growing list of powerful university donors to speak out on the issue.
“These kids in college have sh*t for brains,” Cooperman told CNN in a phone interview.

We need to ban college. Every student should be jailed. Then we can finally ban kids.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/us/cornell-university-antisemitic-threats-thursday/index.html

Hey I get the sarcasm, but we literally have “liberal” college students at Cornell this week chanting in support of ethic cleansing by citing the River to sea song. Are we going to state they don’t understand what they are singing for? If so, yes they should be banned.

no race or group of people has been ethnically cleansed more than the Israelis and Jews. Yet you read this forum, and there is only crying about a direct retaliation to a 9/11 level attack on Israel. Why is this country treated differently ? Why is it ok to sing about ethnic cleaning against Israel - that is clear in the first few seconds of the video attached to that news article? Why are no liberals here demanding Hamas surrender?

it’s sad that I need to stand with our conservative posters. Yes we should ban the college kids who are learning this hatred from somewhere.

JB is 100% correct. Either the students are singing in support of ethnic cleansing, or they have $hit for brains. Which is it?

BTW - I don't totally agree with your positioning of River to Sea to be an ethnic cleansing song. That song has been in use for generations, even before Hamas and others adopted it. It can viewed a number of ways, as a Free Palestine, Single state solution, or in worse cases, the removal of Jews. And then finally, your adoption which is ethnic cleansing. So to be clear, I don't believe for one fucking second that every student that supports Palestine at these rallies is pro-genocide. That's absurd.

it’s not my positioning, its a well known, controversial slogan that at best is at odds with peace. I am only referring about those students singing a song of fucking hatred. And two of your three interpretations apparently imply the removal of Israelis, so if that's not cleansing, if you think it’s absurd, where are they going to live, if not between the river and the sea?

Glad the liberals are so woke.

I don't think you know what ethnic cleansing means. For example, in the 19th century, there was a serious movement to relocate Africans to Liberia. Under your definition, it appears you think that's cleansing. It's not. What Milosevic tried is cleansing. Don't call me woke because you either misunderstand or choose not to understand differences in words.

Woke was a comment at the liberal side of the forum, to no one in specific. I should have been more specific

Yes,I used the term cleansing loosely, because of the history of the Jews in WWII as well as their fate against the Romans. And the history of the world clearly not accepting these people anywhere is well documented, so I think that thought process is well justified in this case, as relocation anywhere other than Israel has been impossible

However, back to the main point, to see wealthy college students barely old enough to shave singing the current chants inspired by Hamas was horrifying, whether or not prior generations claim to have some sort of more benevolent inspiration for that jingle.

If Israelis believe that song is about the entire destruction of their homeland, is it not horrifying seeing crowds of rich American kids chant it? That’s the woke angle, and it’s directed at all the liberals here. No one was outraged here Oct seven, and no one was outraged to hear wealthy college kids sing that offensive song. DEI supposedly tells us to consider how words are interpreted, except in one case in the far left world.

Well the last admonishment on words here is interesting, as you didn't consider the proper definition of ethnic cleansing. Removal from a land is not cleansing. Using a term like ethnic cleansing "loosely" is irresponsible. Let's also be clear that I support the right of Israel to exist, peacefully.

So back to the point, I again think you are misrepresenting the song. It's not a Hamas inspired song. I'm pretty sure this song existed as a Palestinian freedom song well before the advent of Hamas. You can check me on that. I do know that Hamas was formed in the late 80s. So if that's true, then I don't know how you say that it's Hamas-inspired. Therefore, because the song is used in many ways, to conclude that these college kids think Jews should be murdered en masse because they sing that song, is a HUGE jump and now you are claiming to understand what every one of these kids both think and believe. And sorry, you can't do that.

wiki is not perfect, but does provide facts supporting both contentions. I brought up “woke” because college students can be thought of as major supporters of woke values. I am not using woke like republicans do, I am pointing out the student demo usually cares about emotions or feelings, how words are perceived by victims…well except in the case of one group of people apparently.

2% of the population, 40% of the hate crimes. I think BLM might be jealous.

My point is, if students are publicly protesting, it is their responsibility to understand the words they utter and woke values tells us to consider how our words are received

The short answer from the original point back when JB kicked this off, is probably the kids have $hit for brains (and don’t realize how evil their words are received by the Israeli people), because they have no idea what they are chanting about, and their parents are wasting $100k a year on their $hitty education.

..

” From the river to the sea" (Arabic: من النهر إلى البحر, romanized: min an-nahr ’ilā l-baḥr) is a political slogan associated with Palestinian nationalism. The slogan refers geographically to the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, which includes the State of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip.[1][2]
The slogan has been employed by political groups since the 1960s to advocate for Palestinian liberation, with origins in the Palestinian National Council's initial charters, which demand a Palestinian state geographically encompassing all of historic Palestine. The slogan's meaning is contentious. Some construe it as a call for the dismantling of the Jewish state. Conversely, the slogan may be interpreted as advocating for a democratic state of Palestine encompassing what is today Israel and the Palestinian territories, where individuals of all religions would have equal citizenship.[1][3][4]
The slogan has been used by militant groups including Hamasand Islamic Jihad that have vowed to destroy Israel. It is regarded by the ADL as antisemitic or hate speech suggesting that it denies the right of Jews for self-determination, or advocates for their removal or extermination.

So let's get back to the pejorative of "shit for brains". That's what I have a real problem with in this whole conversation. I think using a statement like that is ridiculous and lazy. That's why I have picked this fight. I think that many, maybe even most of these students do not understand the whole history of the Jews, or the Palestinians for that matter. But most of them grew up in an era of right wing Likud gov't and it's very easy to see them as the bad guy. And in many cases, they have been. That doesn't excuse Hamas and they are clearly worse, without question. But kids are just that. Kids. They aren't "shit for brains". They shouldn't be banned and they shouldn't demonized and assumed that every one of them that sings this ambiguous song thinks that Jews should be wiped off the Earth. That's what is absurd.

So my experience with you as that you are a smart, measured poster. Signing on to the bullshit rhetoric from posters like JB who use extreme terms without regard for the meaning or ramifications does you a disservice. Take that for what it is. I appreciate the passion you have for Israel. I feel the same for Ukraine. But that's a much simpler situation and easier to identify what is right and wrong, morally.

Also, your comment about the 100k education. I bet very, very few of these protesters has any formal education or classes in Middle Eastern politics. It's not going to be part of core curriculum. So anyone that has studied it is likely on a history track or something similar. In other words, a distinct minority. Their understanding is not coming from the education side of the university. That's just my opinion, having sent two kids through college recently (including one that is a history major).

I was quoting what Leon Cooperman said. I never gave my opinion on this and you are incorrectly citing that it was my quote.

A bit of a cop out JB, no? That’s your right.

Might as well put the full quote which makes a lot more sense than the divisive excerpt originally posted on the forum, and let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that never have shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance.

"These kids at the colleges have s--- for brains," Cooperman told "The Claman Countdown" host Liz Claman on Wednesday. "We have one reliable ally in the Middle East. That's Israel. We only have one democracy in the Middle East. That's Israel. And we have one economy tolerant of different people, gays, lesbians, etc. That's Israel. So they have no idea what these young kids are doing."

I agree that many progressives either ignore or do not understand how illiberal these Muslim countries are. It's one of the many paradoxes in the region.

I still don't yell at kids for being young and uniformed.

Regardless of their knowledge level, it’s just another cheap attempt by the right wing to discredit anyone who disagrees and gatekeep the dialogue. Watching republicans be critical of other countries lack of democracy and intolerance is comical to say the least. ‘Oh, looky at the Iranian women in the before and after photos, now wearing burkas’ while they excitedly pass abortion bans.

mickeyrat · November 2023

https://twitter.com/ifudontlike2bad/status/1720794753506377902?t=PH9JXkGSvnJ2kKRGeF_K0Q&s=19

mrussel1 · November 2023

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/business/leon-cooperman-students-israel-protests/index.html
Hedge fund billionaire Leon Cooperman is blasting college students for protesting against Israel, joining a growing list of powerful university donors to speak out on the issue.
“These kids in college have sh*t for brains,” Cooperman told CNN in a phone interview.

We need to ban college. Every student should be jailed. Then we can finally ban kids.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/us/cornell-university-antisemitic-threats-thursday/index.html

Hey I get the sarcasm, but we literally have “liberal” college students at Cornell this week chanting in support of ethic cleansing by citing the River to sea song. Are we going to state they don’t understand what they are singing for? If so, yes they should be banned.

no race or group of people has been ethnically cleansed more than the Israelis and Jews. Yet you read this forum, and there is only crying about a direct retaliation to a 9/11 level attack on Israel. Why is this country treated differently ? Why is it ok to sing about ethnic cleaning against Israel - that is clear in the first few seconds of the video attached to that news article? Why are no liberals here demanding Hamas surrender?

it’s sad that I need to stand with our conservative posters. Yes we should ban the college kids who are learning this hatred from somewhere.

JB is 100% correct. Either the students are singing in support of ethnic cleansing, or they have $hit for brains. Which is it?

BTW - I don't totally agree with your positioning of River to Sea to be an ethnic cleansing song. That song has been in use for generations, even before Hamas and others adopted it. It can viewed a number of ways, as a Free Palestine, Single state solution, or in worse cases, the removal of Jews. And then finally, your adoption which is ethnic cleansing. So to be clear, I don't believe for one fucking second that every student that supports Palestine at these rallies is pro-genocide. That's absurd.

it’s not my positioning, its a well known, controversial slogan that at best is at odds with peace. I am only referring about those students singing a song of fucking hatred. And two of your three interpretations apparently imply the removal of Israelis, so if that's not cleansing, if you think it’s absurd, where are they going to live, if not between the river and the sea?

Glad the liberals are so woke.

I don't think you know what ethnic cleansing means. For example, in the 19th century, there was a serious movement to relocate Africans to Liberia. Under your definition, it appears you think that's cleansing. It's not. What Milosevic tried is cleansing. Don't call me woke because you either misunderstand or choose not to understand differences in words.

Woke was a comment at the liberal side of the forum, to no one in specific. I should have been more specific

Yes,I used the term cleansing loosely, because of the history of the Jews in WWII as well as their fate against the Romans. And the history of the world clearly not accepting these people anywhere is well documented, so I think that thought process is well justified in this case, as relocation anywhere other than Israel has been impossible

However, back to the main point, to see wealthy college students barely old enough to shave singing the current chants inspired by Hamas was horrifying, whether or not prior generations claim to have some sort of more benevolent inspiration for that jingle.

If Israelis believe that song is about the entire destruction of their homeland, is it not horrifying seeing crowds of rich American kids chant it? That’s the woke angle, and it’s directed at all the liberals here. No one was outraged here Oct seven, and no one was outraged to hear wealthy college kids sing that offensive song. DEI supposedly tells us to consider how words are interpreted, except in one case in the far left world.

Well the last admonishment on words here is interesting, as you didn't consider the proper definition of ethnic cleansing. Removal from a land is not cleansing. Using a term like ethnic cleansing "loosely" is irresponsible. Let's also be clear that I support the right of Israel to exist, peacefully.

So back to the point, I again think you are misrepresenting the song. It's not a Hamas inspired song. I'm pretty sure this song existed as a Palestinian freedom song well before the advent of Hamas. You can check me on that. I do know that Hamas was formed in the late 80s. So if that's true, then I don't know how you say that it's Hamas-inspired. Therefore, because the song is used in many ways, to conclude that these college kids think Jews should be murdered en masse because they sing that song, is a HUGE jump and now you are claiming to understand what every one of these kids both think and believe. And sorry, you can't do that.

wiki is not perfect, but does provide facts supporting both contentions. I brought up “woke” because college students can be thought of as major supporters of woke values. I am not using woke like republicans do, I am pointing out the student demo usually cares about emotions or feelings, how words are perceived by victims…well except in the case of one group of people apparently.

2% of the population, 40% of the hate crimes. I think BLM might be jealous.

My point is, if students are publicly protesting, it is their responsibility to understand the words they utter and woke values tells us to consider how our words are received

The short answer from the original point back when JB kicked this off, is probably the kids have $hit for brains (and don’t realize how evil their words are received by the Israeli people), because they have no idea what they are chanting about, and their parents are wasting $100k a year on their $hitty education.

..

” From the river to the sea" (Arabic: من النهر إلى البحر, romanized: min an-nahr ’ilā l-baḥr) is a political slogan associated with Palestinian nationalism. The slogan refers geographically to the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, which includes the State of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip.[1][2]
The slogan has been employed by political groups since the 1960s to advocate for Palestinian liberation, with origins in the Palestinian National Council's initial charters, which demand a Palestinian state geographically encompassing all of historic Palestine. The slogan's meaning is contentious. Some construe it as a call for the dismantling of the Jewish state. Conversely, the slogan may be interpreted as advocating for a democratic state of Palestine encompassing what is today Israel and the Palestinian territories, where individuals of all religions would have equal citizenship.[1][3][4]
The slogan has been used by militant groups including Hamasand Islamic Jihad that have vowed to destroy Israel. It is regarded by the ADL as antisemitic or hate speech suggesting that it denies the right of Jews for self-determination, or advocates for their removal or extermination.

So let's get back to the pejorative of "shit for brains". That's what I have a real problem with in this whole conversation. I think using a statement like that is ridiculous and lazy. That's why I have picked this fight. I think that many, maybe even most of these students do not understand the whole history of the Jews, or the Palestinians for that matter. But most of them grew up in an era of right wing Likud gov't and it's very easy to see them as the bad guy. And in many cases, they have been. That doesn't excuse Hamas and they are clearly worse, without question. But kids are just that. Kids. They aren't "shit for brains". They shouldn't be banned and they shouldn't demonized and assumed that every one of them that sings this ambiguous song thinks that Jews should be wiped off the Earth. That's what is absurd.

So my experience with you as that you are a smart, measured poster. Signing on to the bullshit rhetoric from posters like JB who use extreme terms without regard for the meaning or ramifications does you a disservice. Take that for what it is. I appreciate the passion you have for Israel. I feel the same for Ukraine. But that's a much simpler situation and easier to identify what is right and wrong, morally.

Also, your comment about the 100k education. I bet very, very few of these protesters has any formal education or classes in Middle Eastern politics. It's not going to be part of core curriculum. So anyone that has studied it is likely on a history track or something similar. In other words, a distinct minority. Their understanding is not coming from the education side of the university. That's just my opinion, having sent two kids through college recently (including one that is a history major).

I was quoting what Leon Cooperman said. I never gave my opinion on this and you are incorrectly citing that it was my quote.

A bit of a cop out JB, no? That’s your right.

Might as well put the full quote which makes a lot more sense than the divisive excerpt originally posted on the forum, and let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that never have shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance.

"These kids at the colleges have s--- for brains," Cooperman told "The Claman Countdown" host Liz Claman on Wednesday. "We have one reliable ally in the Middle East. That's Israel. We only have one democracy in the Middle East. That's Israel. And we have one economy tolerant of different people, gays, lesbians, etc. That's Israel. So they have no idea what these young kids are doing."

I agree that many progressives either ignore or do not understand how illiberal these Muslim countries are. It's one of the many paradoxes in the region.

I still don't yell at kids for being young and uniformed.

Regardless of their knowledge level, it’s just another cheap attempt by the right wing to discredit anyone who disagrees and gatekeep the dialogue. Watching republicans be critical of other countries lack of democracy and intolerance is comical to say the least. ‘Oh, looky at the Iranian women in the before and after photos, now wearing burkas’ while they excitedly pass abortion bans.

I agree with this.

static111 · November 2023

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Over under on Lerxst going for Trump '24? Comments like "let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that has never shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance" really make me wonder. I couldn't imagine living in a world where it was so easy to dehumanize an entire group of struggling people that have been forced into living in squalor.

This is where Internet forums are so difficult. I was referring to the liberal kids taking sides with a group of people who have never shown any respect for democracy or tolerance of people different from them. Is that factually incorrect? Are the majority of Muslims in the Middle East and Palestine tolerant of LGBT, or other races or other religions ? Is there a known history of their tolerance of others? Is there a history where these peoples have shown a tolerance or even an interest in democracy? Maybe cooperman is wrong, and I shouldn’t have piggybacked on that sentiment.

A lot of that “squalor” can be directly tied to the second intifada, which would be a very lengthy discussion. Shortly stated, a lot of their economic depression can be directly tied to the failure by them to support Oslo. I know the reality is more complex.

I am not saying they should not be treated well and I am hopeful the ME quagmire can be improved for all. I have repeatedly said on this forum peace needs to be negotiated and both sides need to give, but the first step is Palestine needs to join its Arab neighbors in fully recognizing Israel’s right to peacefully exist. My hope is if any comments of mine are read, that it be interpreted within this context.

As far as trump 24, that’s a bit of a stretch. Thankfully Biden has been a very strong supporter of Israel, but as you likely know, the democratic base is much more complex than the gop who almost all blindly follow their leader. IMO Biden can not win without the support of the Jews and I read earlier ME people in Michigan are angry at Biden.

Thanks for the clarification. The let the liberals... remark really had me wondering where you were heading. Definitely an easy statement to be misconstrued.

mickeyrat · November 2023

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Over under on Lerxst going for Trump '24? Comments like "let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that has never shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance" really make me wonder. I couldn't imagine living in a world where it was so easy to dehumanize an entire group of struggling people that have been forced into living in squalor.

This is where Internet forums are so difficult. I was referring to the liberal kids taking sides with a group of people who have never shown any respect for democracy or tolerance of people different from them. Is that factually incorrect? Are the majority of Muslims in the Middle East and Palestine tolerant of LGBT, or other races or other religions ? Is there a known history of their tolerance of others? Is there a history where these peoples have shown a tolerance or even an interest in democracy? Maybe cooperman is wrong, and I shouldn’t have piggybacked on that sentiment.

A lot of that “squalor” can be directly tied to the second intifada, which would be a very lengthy discussion. Shortly stated, a lot of their economic depression can be directly tied to the failure by them to support Oslo. I know the reality is more complex.

I am not saying they should not be treated well and I am hopeful the ME quagmire can be improved for all. I have repeatedly said on this forum peace needs to be negotiated and both sides need to give, but the first step is Palestine needs to join its Arab neighbors in fully recognizing Israel’s right to peacefully exist. My hope is if any comments of mine are read, that it be interpreted within this context.

As far as trump 24, that’s a bit of a stretch. Thankfully Biden has been a very strong supporter of Israel, but as you likely know, the democratic base is much more complex than the gop who almost all blindly follow their leader. IMO Biden can not win without the support of the Jews and I read earlier ME people in Michigan are angry at Biden.

Thanks for the clarification. The let the liberals... remark really had me wondering where you were heading. Definitely an easy statement to be misconstrued.

Funny, PLO/ Palestine Authority/Fatah HAS recognized Israels right to exist, have they not?

Halifax2TheMax · November 2023

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Over under on Lerxst going for Trump '24? Comments like "let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that has never shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance" really make me wonder. I couldn't imagine living in a world where it was so easy to dehumanize an entire group of struggling people that have been forced into living in squalor.

This is where Internet forums are so difficult. I was referring to the liberal kids taking sides with a group of people who have never shown any respect for democracy or tolerance of people different from them. Is that factually incorrect? Are the majority of Muslims in the Middle East and Palestine tolerant of LGBT, or other races or other religions ? Is there a known history of their tolerance of others? Is there a history where these peoples have shown a tolerance or even an interest in democracy? Maybe cooperman is wrong, and I shouldn’t have piggybacked on that sentiment.

A lot of that “squalor” can be directly tied to the second intifada, which would be a very lengthy discussion. Shortly stated, a lot of their economic depression can be directly tied to the failure by them to support Oslo. I know the reality is more complex.

I am not saying they should not be treated well and I am hopeful the ME quagmire can be improved for all. I have repeatedly said on this forum peace needs to be negotiated and both sides need to give, but the first step is Palestine needs to join its Arab neighbors in fully recognizing Israel’s right to peacefully exist. My hope is if any comments of mine are read, that it be interpreted within this context.

As far as trump 24, that’s a bit of a stretch. Thankfully Biden has been a very strong supporter of Israel, but as you likely know, the democratic base is much more complex than the gop who almost all blindly follow their leader. IMO Biden can not win without the support of the Jews and I read earlier ME people in Michigan are angry at Biden.

Thanks for the clarification. The let the liberals... remark really had me wondering where you were heading. Definitely an easy statement to be misconstrued.

Funny, Palestine Authority/Fatah HAS recognized Israels right to exist, have they not?

Along with a lack of acknowledgement of the role Rabin’s assassination and Bibi’s exploitation of the schism between Fatah and Hamas has played in the history from the 2nd intifada to today. Bibi, and by extension, Israeli voters, miscalculated manipulating that schism the way the Israeli government did. Some might call it “blowback.”

mrussel1 · November 2023

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Over under on Lerxst going for Trump '24? Comments like "let the liberals ponder the meaning of their political ideologies as they support a people that has never shown any respect for democracy nor tolerance" really make me wonder. I couldn't imagine living in a world where it was so easy to dehumanize an entire group of struggling people that have been forced into living in squalor.

This is where Internet forums are so difficult. I was referring to the liberal kids taking sides with a group of people who have never shown any respect for democracy or tolerance of people different from them. Is that factually incorrect? Are the majority of Muslims in the Middle East and Palestine tolerant of LGBT, or other races or other religions ? Is there a known history of their tolerance of others? Is there a history where these peoples have shown a tolerance or even an interest in democracy? Maybe cooperman is wrong, and I shouldn’t have piggybacked on that sentiment.

A lot of that “squalor” can be directly tied to the second intifada, which would be a very lengthy discussion. Shortly stated, a lot of their economic depression can be directly tied to the failure by them to support Oslo. I know the reality is more complex.

I am not saying they should not be treated well and I am hopeful the ME quagmire can be improved for all. I have repeatedly said on this forum peace needs to be negotiated and both sides need to give, but the first step is Palestine needs to join its Arab neighbors in fully recognizing Israel’s right to peacefully exist. My hope is if any comments of mine are read, that it be interpreted within this context.

As far as trump 24, that’s a bit of a stretch. Thankfully Biden has been a very strong supporter of Israel, but as you likely know, the democratic base is much more complex than the gop who almost all blindly follow their leader. IMO Biden can not win without the support of the Jews and I read earlier ME people in Michigan are angry at Biden.

Thanks for the clarification. The let the liberals... remark really had me wondering where you were heading. Definitely an easy statement to be misconstrued.

Funny, Palestine Authority/Fatah HAS recognized Israels right to exist, have they not?

Along with a lack of acknowledgement of the role Rabin’s assassination and Bibi’s exploitation of the schism between Fatah and Hamas has played in the history from the 2nd intifada to today. Bibi, and by extension, Israeli voters, miscalculated manipulating that schism the way the Israelite government did. Some might call it “blowback.”

And the victims of the massacre had no role in any of those things. Therefore they aren't defensible "reasons".