The Fan Exchange scam

JimmyV · September 2023

YourDirtisMyfood said:

I just saw Springsteen last Saturday night at Gillette for $58 before fees in the 3rd row of the 300's and had a great time. Wasn't sold out and the weather held up thankfully.

That show was incredible. 73 years old and he rocks for three straight hours. Those first 9 songs there was no coming up for air.

CM189191 · September 2023

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Kwieneke said:

CM189191 said:

mattcoz said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Zod said:

I do wonder. How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets. It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face. How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.

I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread. Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable. It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets. It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets. Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Since 10C seats keep getting pushed further back, more transparency would be nice.

Claim that Premium tickets subsidize 10C tickets? ok, prove it! Show me the money!

Of course higher priced seats subsidize lower priced ones. Platinum pricing generates additional revenue they wouldn't have otherwise. If there were no platinum sales, they would have to raise the standard price to make the same amount of money

ok, prove it! Show me the money!

1 ticket at $1000 + 9 tickets at $100 = $1900
Now, take away the $1000 ticket.
$1900 / 10 tickets = $190

Pretty sure I saw more than 10 people at the show Thursday

You think $1,000 was the average Premium price?

I know my 10C ticket was more than $100

And I doubt there's 9 10C members for every Premium ticket.

Your numbers don't add up. Try again?

I think the point was just to use numbers that are easy to put together

I disagree. I don't think the numbers are so simple.

I think 10 club members are getting soaked with this new premium pricing and they don't even realize it. Which is why I'm asking for transparency.

Or, maybe we should just trust Ticketmaster's and take their word for it. I'm sure Ticketmaster has our best interest in mind, right?

They say 10% are premium. So for every 100 tickets, 90 sell @ 160 (14,400) and 10 sell at say 500 (5000), for a total of $19,400. Without premium, the total would be 16,000. Therefore, you would have to raise the price of standard tickets to $194 to make the same amount of money. The conclusion is that premium is subsidizing the standard tickets by allowing them to only charge 160.

How do you know premium tickets are averaging $500?

And you're not including 10C annual dues.

You're missing the point. Whether premiums average 200, 500, 1000, or any number in between, plug that number into the equation and adjust accordingly. However much additional revenue is generated by the differential between the premium price and regular price subsidizes the regular priced tickets. Without it, regular price would have to be higher to reach the same profit.

10c dues have nothing to do with it. Those exist regardless of whether some tickets are premium priced or not.

You're missing the point.

I'm asking for transparency.

10C tickets keep getting pushed to worse seats. And we're being told Premium tickets are subsidizing other ticket prices.

Fine, let's see the proof. Because it's obvious we keep paying higher prices for worse seats each tour. And it feels like being taken advantage of.

StardogChamp79 · September 2023

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Kwieneke said:

CM189191 said:

mattcoz said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Zod said:

I do wonder. How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets? It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face. How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.

I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread. Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable. It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets. It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets. Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Since 10C seats keep getting pushed further back, more transparency would be nice.

Claim that Premium tickets subsidize 10C tickets? ok, prove it! Show me the money!

Of course higher priced seats subsidize lower priced ones. Platinum pricing generates additional revenue they wouldn't have otherwise. If there were no platinum sales, they would have to raise the standard price to make the same amount of money

ok, prove it! Show me the money!

1 ticket at $1000 + 9 tickets at $100 = $1900
Now, take away the $1000 ticket.
$1900 / 10 tickets = $190

Pretty sure I saw more than 10 people at the show Thursday

You think $1,000 was the average Premium price?

I know my 10C ticket was more than $100

And I doubt there's 9 10C members for every Premium ticket.

Your numbers don't add up. Try again?

I think the point was just to use numbers that are easy to put together

I disagree. I don't think the numbers are so simple.

I think 10 club members are getting soaked with this new premium pricing and they don't even realize it. Which is why I'm asking for transparency.

Or, maybe we should just trust Ticketmaster's and take their word for it. I'm sure Ticketmaster has our best interest in mind, right?

They say 10% are premium. So for every 100 tickets, 90 sell @ 160 (14,400) and 10 sell at say 500 (5000), for a total of $19,400. Without premium, the total would be 16,000. Therefore, you would have to raise the price of standard tickets to $194 to make the same amount of money. The conclusion is that premium is subsidizing the standard tickets by allowing them to only charge 160.

How do you know premium tickets are averaging $500?

And you're not including 10C annual dues.

You're missing the point. Whether premiums average 200, 500, 1000, or any number in between, plug that number into the equation and adjust accordingly. However much additional revenue is generated by the differential between the premium price and regular price subsidizes the regular priced tickets. Without it, regular price would have to be higher to reach the same profit.

10c dues have nothing to do with it. Those exist regardless of whether some tickets are premium priced or not.

You're missing the point.

I'm asking for transparency.

10C tickets keep getting pushed to worse seats. And we're being told Premium tickets are subsidizing other ticket prices.

Fine, let's see the proof. Because it's obvious we keep paying higher prices for worse seats each tour. And it feels like being taken advantage of.

It's their business model. No one pays the same phone, cable, or internet bill. It works on the same premise. It is a gamble but 10 Club has been good to me (some good seats, some ok) but the point is they simply can not please everyone. If this is your lively hood and you created this why not try to get paid for something you love to do! I believe the band gets paid anyway! The truth is there are not many non-Ticketmaster venues and if you want to see them this is the route you have to take. Just be selective on how you want to commit. There are tons of seats open on F2F. They started this band and they have the freedom to choose how they want to operate it. Just enjoy the music.

Get_Right · September 2023

You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model.

AW124797 · September 2023

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Kwieneke said:

CM189191 said:

mattcoz said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Zod said:

I do wonder. How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets. It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face. How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.

I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread. Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable. It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets. It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets. Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Since 10C seats keep getting pushed further back, more transparency would be nice.

Claim that Premium tickets subsidize 10C tickets? ok, prove it! Show me the money!

Of course higher priced seats subsidize lower priced ones. Platinum pricing generates additional revenue they wouldn't have otherwise. If there were no platinum sales, they would have to raise the standard price to make the same amount of money

ok, prove it! Show me the money!

1 ticket at $1000 + 9 tickets at $100 = $1900
Now, take away the $1000 ticket.
$1900 / 10 tickets = $190

Pretty sure I saw more than 10 people at the show Thursday

You think $1,000 was the average Premium price?

I know my 10C ticket was more than $100

And I doubt there's 9 10C members for every Premium ticket.

Your numbers don't add up. Try again?

I think the point was just to use numbers that are easy to put together

I disagree. I don't think the numbers are so simple.

I think 10 club members are getting soaked with this new premium pricing and they don't even realize it. Which is why I'm asking for transparency.

Or, maybe we should just trust Ticketmaster's and take their word for it. I'm sure Ticketmaster has our best interest in mind, right?

They say 10% are premium. So for every 100 tickets, 90 sell @ 160 (14,400) and 10 sell at say 500 (5000), for a total of $19,400. Without premium, the total would be 16,000. Therefore, you would have to raise the price of standard tickets to $194 to make the same amount of money. The conclusion is that premium is subsidizing the standard tickets by allowing them to only charge 160.

How do you know premium tickets are averaging $500?

And you're not including 10C annual dues.

You're missing the point. Whether premiums average 200, 500, 1000, or any number in between, plug that number into the equation and adjust accordingly. However much additional revenue is generated by the differential between the premium price and regular price subsidizes the regular priced tickets. Without it, regular price would have to be higher to reach the same profit.

10c dues have nothing to do with it. Those exist regardless of whether some tickets are premium priced or not.

I admire your patience, SHZA.

CM189191 · September 2023

StardogChamp79 said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Kwieneke said:

CM189191 said:

mattcoz said:

CM189191 said:

SHZA said:

CM189191 said:

Zod said:

I do wonder. How much extra revenue do they get from the platinum tickets? It's pretty clear they aren't selling all of them at above face. How much could it could possibly add to the regular ticket prices, if they took that amount of money, divided it by 16,000, and added it to all the other tickets?

I think I'd rather pay $20 more per ticket, then deal with platinum thing.

I suppose at a minimum we should start a "Petition to allow fan2fan to sell tickets below face value" thread. Not sure if TM/Pearl Jam would do it, as it could result in them holding the bag on unsold tickets.

In regards to fan2fan, I really don't like how it's made fan club tickets disposable. It's made it so easy for fans to buy tickets, see they aren't good, then try to dump them again, but it pushes everyones tickets further back that actually do use their tickets. It also allows non 10c'ers access to 10c tickets. Like your almost better off not using 10c, and sniping fan2fan tickets or unsold platinum tickets (if you can gamble with the travel aspect of it).

Since 10C seats keep getting pushed further back, more transparency would be nice.

Claim that Premium tickets subsidize 10C tickets? ok, prove it! Show me the money!

Of course higher priced seats subsidize lower priced ones. Platinum pricing generates additional revenue they wouldn't have otherwise. If there were no platinum sales, they would have to raise the standard price to make the same amount of money

ok, prove it! Show me the money!

1 ticket at $1000 + 9 tickets at $100 = $1900
Now, take away the $1000 ticket.
$1900 / 10 tickets = $190

Pretty sure I saw more than 10 people at the show Thursday

You think $1,000 was the average Premium price?

I know my 10C ticket was more than $100

And I doubt there's 9 10C members for every Premium ticket.

Your numbers don't add up. Try again?

I think the point was just to use numbers that are easy to put together

I disagree. I don't think the numbers are so simple.

I think 10 club members are getting soaked with this new premium pricing and they don't even realize it. Which is why I'm asking for transparency.

Or, maybe we should just trust Ticketmaster's and take their word for it. I'm sure Ticketmaster has our best interest in mind, right?

They say 10% are premium. So for every 100 tickets, 90 sell @ 160 (14,400) and 10 sell at say 500 (5000), for a total of $19,400. Without premium, the total would be 16,000. Therefore, you would have to raise the price of standard tickets to $194 to make the same amount of money. The conclusion is that premium is subsidizing the standard tickets by allowing them to only charge 160.

How do you know premium tickets are averaging $500?

And you're not including 10C annual dues.

You're missing the point. Whether premiums average 200, 500, 1000, or any number in between, plug that number into the equation and adjust accordingly. However much additional revenue is generated by the differential between the premium price and regular price subsidizes the regular priced tickets. Without it, regular price would have to be higher to reach the same profit.

10c dues have nothing to do with it. Those exist regardless of whether some tickets are premium priced or not.

You're missing the point.

I'm asking for transparency.

10C tickets keep getting pushed to worse seats. And we're being told Premium tickets are subsidizing other ticket prices.

Fine, let's see the proof. Because it's obvious we keep paying higher prices for worse seats each tour. And it feels like being taken advantage of.

It's their business model. No one pays the same phone, cable, or internet bill. It works on the same premise. It is a gamble but 10 Club has been good to me (some good seats, some ok) but the point is they simply can not please everyone. If this is your lively hood and you created this why not try to get paid for something you love to do! I believe the band gets paid anyway! The truth is there are not many non-Ticketmaster venues and if you want to see them this is the route you have to take. Just be selective on how you want to commit. There are tons of seats open on F2F. They started this band and they have the freedom to choose how they want to operate it. Just enjoy the music.

"They started this band and they have the freedom to choose how they want to operate it. "

I agree. It's just a shame they've decided to take advantage of the 10C members who were promised good seats at a fair prices; and the band didn't deliver.

CM189191 · September 2023

Get_Right said:

You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model.

And the 10C was supposed to insulate us from the Ticketmaster business model.

Instead we were exploited.

Lost In Ohio · September 2023

pjl44 said:

As someone who has lost the lottery.more than once for a show I 100% would go to, I'm fully behind any policies that disincentivize "buy now, figure it out later"

There were so many people who'd put in for 3-4 or more shows, thinking they could either back out of what they won OR email 10C and ask.

They'd post stuff like: "I read the email and I know I can't, but my boss now says I can't because there's this...excuses excuses."

The old system probably had some benefit for local fans since people were less likely to put in if they had to travel 200 miles on a weeknight...but this new way allows for backing out.

Lost In Ohio · September 2023

Weston1283 said:

JZ280705 said:

dmbolp said:

mcgruff10 said: This is 2023. Tickets are down, merch is down, posters are down.

Don’t understand this comment. This is a record year for ticket prices. They are least twice what they were pre COVID. Live Nation/Ticketmaster is making tons of money with their monopoly/price manipulation tactics.

For acts like Taylor Swift yes, it is a record year. Pearl Jam is not in that tier anymore. An aging band playing less shows with less songs and less variety.... I think it is going to get easier and easier to get PJ tickets as time passes, not harder.

Taylor is sort of a freak of circumstances. She put out something like five albums during COVID. Plus... it's her first tour in a long time. If she tours every year... it'll still be a hot ticket, but nowhere near as hot because supply/demand.

In a sense, she's where Pearl Jam was back in the early 90s. If she goes 6-7 years without putting anything out...pop music moves on to something else. If Pearl Jam put out Ten and then disappeared until NeilJam...well...the fans would have moved on.

Pearl Jam can put something out every 5-6 years, do 30 USA shows and 15 European shows and they know the fans travel.

YourDirtisMyfood · September 2023

Taylor has a generational show right now. Like Michael Jackson in the 1980s and the Beatles in the 1960s, it's a true pop-culture phenomenon with costume changes, set designs and so forth. Her movie, which comes out on October 13th and is only playing at AMC theaters in North America is probably going to make $100 million, which is insane. And the Eras Tour concept is a great gimmick that is clicking on all cylinders. Hoping to see her in 2024, as I am Pearl Jam, too. I've seen The Eras Tour shows twice this tour and it's one of the best concert experiences of my lifetime.

Get_Right · September 2023

CM189191 said:

Get_Right said:

You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model.

And the 10C was supposed to insulate us from the Ticketmaster business model.

Instead we were exploited.

The band made a compromise many, many years ago. The simple fact is that TM/LN have a monopoly over ticket sales. I had great 10C tix to Camden and could never have gotten them through TM. The 10C has no control over how TM operates, if anything TM dictates to the 10C.

bootlegger10 · September 2023

Ticket system is fine. 10c does a great job getting tickets. Sucks they aren’t all the best seats in the house but so be it.

Get_Right · September 2023

bootlegger10 said:

Ticket system is fine. 10c does a great job getting tickets. Sucks they aren’t all the best seats in the house but so be it.

It is far from fine. But getting decent seats to PJ seems easier than many other acts.

pjl44 · September 2023

A pair of PJ tickets for this tour is less expensive than just about every other arena show I've looked at, especially for loge and floor seats. In some cases approaching 50%. Knock yourself out if you want to count every penny but 10C continues to more than hold up their end of the deal imo.

pjl44 · September 2023

Lost In Ohio said:

pjl44 said:

As someone who has lost the lottery.more than once for a show I 100% would go to, I'm fully behind any policies that disincentivize "buy now, figure it out later"

There were so many people who'd put in for 3-4 or more shows, thinking they could either back out of what they won OR email 10C and ask.

They'd post stuff like: "I read the email and I know I can't, but my boss now says I can't because there's this...excuses excuses."

The old system probably had some benefit for local fans since people were less likely to put in if they had to travel 200 miles on a weeknight...but this new way allows for backing out.

I think laws and scooping up more seats makes going back to the old way impossible, so I just appreciate the effort they put in within current parameters

mr bungle · September 2023

Get_Right said:

You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model.

BINGO! TM has become the scalper. They already had the monopoly on tix. Now they are trying to monopolize the scalper market!

foriginalsin · September 2023

BF25394 said:

JZ280705 said:

BF25394 said:

JZ280705 said:

I live in NC and they cancelled a show here 7 years ago because the state wouldn’t allow transgender women to use girls bathrooms.

Fixed this for you.

Like “her”?

https://nypost.com/2023/05/16/university-of-wyoming-sorority-sisters-say-they-live-in-fear-of-trans-member/amp/

The allegations in that lawsuit do not have any bearing on the reality that the overwhelming majority of transgender women are just trying to live their lives without being subject to discrimination and abuse, including the abuse they might suffer if, despite appearing to all the world as a woman, they are forced to use men's bathrooms. Statements like the one in your original post ignore this reality. You can't write transgender people out of existence by facilely stating that the issue was about "men using girls [sic] bathrooms."

If a person of any gender goes into a women's bathroom and engages in inappropriate behavior, there are already laws to deal with that. In the meantime, transgender women use women's bathrooms every day and hardly anyone even notices. Criminalizing those women in the hopes of preventing theoretical harms by people whose behavior would already be illegal makes no sense.

Correct and nicely put.

Get_Right · September 2023

mr bungle said:

Get_Right said:

You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model.

BINGO! TM has become the scalper. They already had the monopoly on tix. Now they are trying to monopolize the scalper market!

That is right. Dynamic pricing is designed to limit secondary market revenue.

pjl44 · September 2023

mr bungle said:

Get_Right said:

You will never get transparency. TM has been manipulating tickets for decades. They do not care about you. They want the highest prices for tickets and they want to make it as hard as possible for you to recover any money you have spent on tickets. This is their business model.

BINGO! TM has become the scalper. They already had the monopoly on tix. Now they are trying to monopolize the scalper market!

Ticketmaster would have to be morons to sit back and let the stubhubs of the world own the resale market. This can work to your advantage at low demand events but also makes you really scrutinize high demand events.

pjl44 · September 2023

I sit out many bigger shows because of ticket prices. That's life.

The Fan Exchange scam

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