The Democracy vs Authoritarianism Thread

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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,887
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    France has gone far right, Sweden has gone far right, and now Italy has gone far right. 
    I guess that thing about three rights make a left is a bunch of crap.   What a mess.  :frowning:
    They don't want change, I get it.  Sometimes you want things to stay as is without radical changes.

    Blame the immigrants 
    And…giants fans hate cowboys fans, still sayin…
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    France has gone far right, Sweden has gone far right, and now Italy has gone far right. 
    I guess that thing about three rights make a left is a bunch of crap.   What a mess.  :frowning:
    They don't want change, I get it.  Sometimes you want things to stay as is without radical changes.

    Blame the immigrants 
    And…giants fans hate cowboys fans, still sayin…
    It's a culture shock to the people that have lived there all their lives I guess?
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,887
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    France has gone far right, Sweden has gone far right, and now Italy has gone far right. 
    I guess that thing about three rights make a left is a bunch of crap.   What a mess.  :frowning:
    They don't want change, I get it.  Sometimes you want things to stay as is without radical changes.

    It seems to me that moving into being under hard-right leadership- by choice- is radical change.  I don't understand why people want that.  I don't understand why the world is turning against democracy.  I don't understand the human race.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    edited September 2022
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.
    Post edited by tempo_n_groove on
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    There are a couple of places this could go but apparently if you work at the University of Idaho, per state law, you could be fired (or even charged with a crime) for talking about abortion or distributing birth control.

    https://jezebel.com/university-of-idaho-told-faculty-they-could-be-fired-fo-1849582850

    Idaho is leading the way.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    OnWis97 said:
    There are a couple of places this could go but apparently if you work at the University of Idaho, per state law, you could be fired (or even charged with a crime) for talking about abortion or distributing birth control.

    https://jezebel.com/university-of-idaho-told-faculty-they-could-be-fired-fo-1849582850

    Idaho is leading the way.

    Sadly, I'm not surprised.   Idaho really is a physically beautiful state but it's moving rapidly in to an uber right-wing state and leaps and bounds. 
    I hear that tell of some of the hard-line right wingers here in conservative El Dorado County are hot to trot off to that state.  Adios!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,887
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    There are a couple of places this could go but apparently if you work at the University of Idaho, per state law, you could be fired (or even charged with a crime) for talking about abortion or distributing birth control.

    https://jezebel.com/university-of-idaho-told-faculty-they-could-be-fired-fo-1849582850

    Idaho is leading the way.

    Sadly, I'm not surprised.   Idaho really is a physically beautiful state but it's moving rapidly in to an uber right-wing state and leaps and bounds. 
    I hear that tell of some of the hard-line right wingers here in conservative El Dorado County are hot to trot off to that state.  Adios!
    Isn't Idaho the militia capital?  I think it was there or Montana I was interested in survival training years ago and it was one of those states.  This was before I knew these organizations had other motives...
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,421
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  

    but told focus on felons and other criminal undocumented.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  

    but told focus on felons and other criminal undocumented.
    No, that wasn't the case either.  Whenever another incident happened and they had been arrested before it became an uproar though.

    Then we still have bail reform that we were all lied to about.  I defended that one for a while.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,421
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  

    but told focus on felons and other criminal undocumented.
    No, that wasn't the case either.  Whenever another incident happened and they had been arrested before it became an uproar though.

    Then we still have bail reform that we were all lied to about.  I defended that one for a while.

    wasnt the case according to whom?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  

    but told focus on felons and other criminal undocumented.
    No, that wasn't the case either.  Whenever another incident happened and they had been arrested before it became an uproar though.

    Then we still have bail reform that we were all lied to about.  I defended that one for a while.

    wasnt the case according to whom?
    Sorry, not following. Can you be more specific?
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,421
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  

    but told focus on felons and other criminal undocumented.
    No, that wasn't the case either.  Whenever another incident happened and they had been arrested before it became an uproar though.

    Then we still have bail reform that we were all lied to about.  I defended that one for a while.

    wasnt the case according to whom?
    Sorry, not following. Can you be more specific?

    not arrest ANY undocumented was told you you by whom?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,421

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    It didn’t seem so bad before trump, the blame the immigrant phenomenon. Either by coincidence or his influence, it’s been terrible since 2016, and it seems the number one issue in these countries and brexit as well, is to stop immigration 
    Brexit was a long time coming apparently.

    We have had rumblings about our borders here in the US for as long as I can remember.  Some states have been more vocal than others.  AZ was one where I lived at that it was always a hot topic.  I lived there on 3 separate occasions.

    Here in NY it wasn't a really big issue until MS13 became a thing and issuing drivers licenses to illegals/undocumented.

    Edit:  I went to thinking about this and it all happened during Trump.

    Interesting.

    Yes I slept walked thru those years. The gangs problem in NY was a huge wake up call. A question of why existing laws weren’t enforced when gang activity became widespread, so we wouldn’t get an anti immigrant fascist president.
    So at the end of Obamas run the police were told NOT to arrest/deport the Hispanic/Latinos that were here illegally/undocumented.  I have quite a few friends and family in LE that would talk about how their hands were tied and couldn't do anything.  

    but told focus on felons and other criminal undocumented.
    No, that wasn't the case either.  Whenever another incident happened and they had been arrested before it became an uproar though.

    Then we still have bail reform that we were all lied to about.  I defended that one for a while.

    wasnt the case according to whom?
    Sorry, not following. Can you be more specific?

    not arrest ANY undocumented was told you you by whom?
    Friends in Law enforcement here on long Island.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    mickeyrat said:

    I'm just telling you what friends in law enforcement told me back then.  They were in it and the source.  Never bothered to ask further about the meetings they had in the stations but I could always go back and ask if you're interested?
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,421
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:

    I'm just telling you what friends in law enforcement told me back then.  They were in it and the source.  Never bothered to ask further about the meetings they had in the stations but I could always go back and ask if you're interested?

    no. they lied to you. or werent fully honest. or were lied to by command.

    if even fox news is reporting it fairly, kinda says something, no?

    the thing was, dont arrest solely on the basis of status. commit a crime, from the criminal code(immigration status is not) enter the due process process. 
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:

    I'm just telling you what friends in law enforcement told me back then.  They were in it and the source.  Never bothered to ask further about the meetings they had in the stations but I could always go back and ask if you're interested?

    no. they lied to you. or werent fully honest. or were lied to by command.

    if even fox news is reporting it fairly, kinda says something, no?

    the thing was, dont arrest solely on the basis of status. commit a crime, from the criminal code(immigration status is not) enter the due process process. 
    That is quite a few people that would have lied then which I would find really hard to believe that I got the same story from different LE's.  When we get together I will ask them to remember or if I even remember to ask, about that time.  It would be interesting to hear more about it.


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