2022 Tour - tuned down song experiments - which ones worked, which ones not as much?

ForceofNature101
ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,295
edited September 2022 in The Porch
Now of course a disclaimer:  we all know that a lot more tuning-down of songs started post-Ed vocal issues that resulted in a couple canceled shows.  So I want to emphasize this is not a thread that is complaining about giving Ed a break vocally, which is much deserved.  Rather, when keys of songs are changed, they can alter the vibe of the song regardless and the change is interesting to me

Some songs were tuned down just one or two times (for example Better Man, Given to Fly, 7 O'clock, DTE and Porch in Ottawa, other shows it was Garden, Corduroy, and more) but for the rest of the tour reverted back to the normal (album) tuning. 

Some songs got tuned down and stayed tuned down for the rest of the tour (Even Flow, Quick Escape, Who Ever Said, etc.)

Ever since the last month or so where it has been getting more frequent, which songs do you think worked best with the change in tunings and which do you think just sounded too jarring from what you know the songs to be?   For me personally: Even Flow, DTE, and Breath sounded the most jarring tuning wise.  Release in MSG tuned down 1/2 though sounded really epic and while different, almost had this ethereal feel to it
Post edited by ForceofNature101 on
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Comments

  • ddeschler
    ddeschler Posts: 690
    I don't think most people notice.  My buddy was trying to have this same discussion with me.  He is a musician and hears a note or chord and instantly can tell me what it is.  The changes are very noticeable to him.  To me, I just shrug, and say, still sounds good to me.  I'd have to hear both versions back to back to notice the difference.
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,615
    Yeah, I'm honestly not sure what people mean by "tuned down." I didn't notice any real difference other than Ed not struggling as much, which was great. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • ForceofNature101
    ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,295
    ddeschler said:
    I don't think most people notice.  My buddy was trying to have this same discussion with me.  He is a musician and hears a note or chord and instantly can tell me what it is.  The changes are very noticeable to him.  To me, I just shrug, and say, still sounds good to me.  I'd have to hear both versions back to back to notice the difference.

    That is totally fair - for me I am a musician and get very "key sensitive" for lack of a better term ha - each key has a distinctive feel to me to the point where even a song like Derek and the Dominoes' "Layla", which is pitched not even a full note higher but in between two notes, is noticeable enough of a change

    I want to make sure that this isn't meant to be a thread complaining about it at all!  But rather just seeing what others think of the differences
  • ForceofNature101
    ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,295
    edited September 2022
    JimmyV said:
    Yeah, I'm honestly not sure what people mean by "tuned down." I didn't notice any real difference other than Ed not struggling as much, which was great. 
    To put it in guitar terms, you know how on guitar you have the different frets you can press down which make that specific note?  "Tuned down" means guitarists literally tune their strings so they are pitched lower by a specific amount.  The effect it gives is equivalent to if a guitarist played that same song but everything on lower frets, if that makes sense.

    A good side-by-side comparison of how this can effect the sound would be comparing "The Fixer" album version to any live version from the 2009 tour onwards, or Even Flow from leg 1 of this year to leg 2

    Post edited by ForceofNature101 on
  • Mortality
    Mortality Posts: 156
    Overall, I think it's a really positive thing that they should stick to. Dissident is the only song that actually sounds worse tuned down. Release and Garden sound amazing. It was so nice to see Ed not struggling to hit the high notes in Release. Helps the performance so much. 
  • OceansJenny
    OceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,410
    I haven’t noticed a difference yet.
    DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
  • tschav
    tschav Posts: 2,900
    I'm on board with whatever they need to do to:
    1. Play shows at a level they can pace out long tours
    2. Find workarounds to keep their catalog of songs in the setlist broad vs never performing ______ song

    Never really noticed the tuned-down songs, but after hearing Quick Escape at Ohana last year it was apparent there are some moments in songs that just stress EV's vocals beyond Leash/Blood tracks. Shame, too, because that one is one of the best sounding live from Gigaton.
  • on2legs
    on2legs Posts: 16,114
    I’m not a musician and I’m in that group that has no idea what tuned down means.  So I’m kind of glad because I saw 3 shows and they sounded great to me.  😁
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2025: Raleigh 2


  • deb1211
    deb1211 Posts: 2,172
    on2legs said:
    I’m not a musician and I’m in that group that has no idea what tuned down means.  So I’m kind of glad because I saw 3 shows and they sounded great to me.  😁
    Same. I couldn't tell the difference 
  • PB11041
    PB11041 Earth Posts: 2,845
    I get being somewhat atune to this especially musicians.  But i feel like it gets way over thought.  PJ didnt invent down tuning, though they have been doing it for years, it is part of the process of performing.  As a fan of live music I honestly don't care if they down tune as long as they are performing well, frankly I don't want the songs to sound exactly as they do off the record, I already have the records.
    His eminence has yet to show. 
    http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652

  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,293
    I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't tell the difference.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,915
    Lol... No one notices or cares 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • kosteva2
    kosteva2 Posts: 329
    I'm not a musician.  Couldn't tell any difference.  Whatever they need to do to keep playing great live shows works for me
    TFC '97, TFC '98, Pittsburgh '98, Camden I,II '98, Camden I,II '00, Pittsburgh '00, Philly '03, Camden I,II '03, MSG I,II '03, Hershey '03, Reading '04, Philly '05, Camden I,II '06, Meadowlands I '06, Camden I,II '08, DC '08, Spectrum I,II,III,IV '09, Made in America '12, Philly I,II '13, GCF '15, Philly I,II '16, MSG I '16, Apollo ‘22, MSG ‘22, Camden ‘22, MSG I,II '24, Philly I,II '24
  • foriginalsin
    foriginalsin Posts: 715
    ForceofNature101 said:
    Now of course a disclaimer:  we all know that a lot more tuning-down of songs started post-Ed vocal issues that resulted in a couple canceled shows.  So I want to emphasize this is not a thread that is complaining about giving Ed a break vocally, which is much deserved.  Rather, when keys of songs are changed, they can alter the vibe of the song regardless and the change is interesting to me

    Some songs were tuned down just one or two times (for example Better Man, Given to Fly, 7 O'clock, DTE and Porch in Ottawa, other shows it was Garden, Corduroy, and more) but for the rest of the tour reverted back to the normal (album) tuning. 

    Some songs got tuned down and stayed tuned down for the rest of the tour (Even Flow, Quick Escape, Who Ever Said, etc.)

    Ever since the last month or so where it has been getting more frequent, which songs do you think worked best with the change in tunings and which do you think just sounded too jarring from what you know the songs to be?   For me personally: Even Flow, DTE, and Breath sounded the most jarring tuning wise.  Release in MSG tuned down 1/2 though sounded really epic and while different, almost had this ethereal feel to it
    Habit from the recording seemed jarring to me. I wrote this in the fanview thread from that show. 

    “Watch the 2000 pink pop performance and then watch the performance from this show. You will hear the difference quite easily.  

    In general, when a guitar is tuned down, the sound becomes heavier and sludgier. Standard tuning is in the key of E. Dropping a full step would be in D. But Habit, (correct me if I'm wrong), is in drop D, which would mean the song is being played in drop C.  Which is low.  A lot of metal bands use that type of tuning. 

    Really wanted to get Habit this tour.  I missed it, but im super glad they played it.”


  • ForceofNature101
    ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,295
    Gern Blansten said:
    Lol... No one notices or cares 



    Serenity now :) breathe in and out, it will be okay
  • ForceofNature101
    ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,295
    mcgruff10 said:
    I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't tell the difference.
    For me I always have been key-aware, definitely the perfect pitch plays a part in it but the change in vibes can be interesting to me

  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,915
    ForceofNature101 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    Lol... No one notices or cares 



    Serenity now :) breathe in and out, it will be okay
    Yeah I didn't start this thread. I should restate that 99.996% of the audience neither notices or cares 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • foriginalsin
    foriginalsin Posts: 715
    edited September 2022
    Im in the .004%.

    How dare anyone have a discussion about music objectively. 
    Post edited by foriginalsin on
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,308
    edited September 2022
    To me, Pearl Jam playing with down tuning is like a bad cover band.  I want my money back.
  • Chrrie
    Chrrie Posts: 436
    For a majority of the songs I have to admit I don’t notice, and if it helps Ed preserve his voice or allows us to get songs that would otherwise be retired I am all for it. I will say Quick Escape is the exception for me. It sounds “wrong”. 

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