2022 Tour - tuned down song experiments - which ones worked, which ones not as much?

ForceofNature101

Now of course a disclaimer:  we all know that a lot more tuning-down of songs started post-Ed vocal issues that resulted in a couple canceled shows.  So I want to emphasize this is not a thread that is complaining about giving Ed a break vocally, which is much deserved.  Rather, when keys of songs are changed, they can alter the vibe of the song regardless and the change is interesting to me

Some songs were tuned down just one or two times (for example Better Man, Given to Fly, 7 O'clock, DTE and Porch in Ottawa, other shows it was Garden, Corduroy, and more) but for the rest of the tour reverted back to the normal (album) tuning. 

Some songs got tuned down and stayed tuned down for the rest of the tour (Even Flow, Quick Escape, Who Ever Said, etc.)

Ever since the last month or so where it has been getting more frequent, which songs do you think worked best with the change in tunings and which do you think just sounded too jarring from what you know the songs to be?   For me personally: Even Flow, DTE, and Breath sounded the most jarring tuning wise.  Release in MSG tuned down 1/2 though sounded really epic and while different, almost had this ethereal feel to it

ddeschler

I don't think most people notice.  My buddy was trying to have this same discussion with me.  He is a musician and hears a note or chord and instantly can tell me what it is.  The changes are very noticeable to him.  To me, I just shrug, and say, still sounds good to me.  I'd have to hear both versions back to back to notice the difference.

JimmyV

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure what people mean by "tuned down." I didn't notice any real difference other than Ed not struggling as much, which was great. 

ForceofNature101

ddeschler said:

I don't think most people notice.  My buddy was trying to have this same discussion with me.  He is a musician and hears a note or chord and instantly can tell me what it is.  The changes are very noticeable to him.  To me, I just shrug, and say, still sounds good to me.  I'd have to hear both versions back to back to notice the difference.

That is totally fair - for me I am a musician and get very "key sensitive" for lack of a better term ha - each key has a distinctive feel to me to the point where even a song like Derek and the Dominoes' "Layla", which is pitched not even a full note higher but in between two notes, is noticeable enough of a change

I want to make sure that this isn't meant to be a thread complaining about it at all!  But rather just seeing what others think of the differences

ForceofNature101

JimmyV said:

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure what people mean by "tuned down." I didn't notice any real difference other than Ed not struggling as much, which was great. 

To put it in guitar terms, you know how on guitar you have the different frets you can press down which make that specific note?  "Tuned down" means guitarists literally tune their strings so they are pitched lower by a specific amount.  The effect it gives is equivalent to if a guitarist played that same song but everything on lower frets, if that makes sense.

A good side-by-side comparison of how this can effect the sound would be comparing "The Fixer" album version to any live version from the 2009 tour onwards, or Even Flow from leg 1 of this year to leg 2

Mortality

Overall, I think it's a really positive thing that they should stick to. Dissident is the only song that actually sounds worse tuned down. Release and Garden sound amazing. It was so nice to see Ed not struggling to hit the high notes in Release. Helps the performance so much. 

OceansJenny

I haven’t noticed a difference yet.

tschav

I'm on board with whatever they need to do to:
1. Play shows at a level they can pace out long tours
2. Find workarounds to keep their catalog of songs in the setlist broad vs never performing ______ song

Never really noticed the tuned-down songs, but after hearing Quick Escape at Ohana last year it was apparent there are some moments in songs that just stress EV's vocals beyond Leash/Blood tracks. Shame, too, because that one is one of the best sounding live from Gigaton.

on2legs

I’m not a musician and I’m in that group that has no idea what tuned down means.  So I’m kind of glad because I saw 3 shows and they sounded great to me.  😁

deb1211

on2legs said:

I’m not a musician and I’m in that group that has no idea what tuned down means.  So I’m kind of glad because I saw 3 shows and they sounded great to me.  😁

Same. I couldn't tell the difference 

PB11041

I get being somewhat atune to this especially musicians.  But i feel like it gets way over thought.  PJ didnt invent down tuning, though they have been doing it for years, it is part of the process of performing.  As a fan of live music I honestly don't care if they down tune as long as they are performing well, frankly I don't want the songs to sound exactly as they do off the record, I already have the records.

mcgruff10

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't tell the difference.

Gern Blansten

Lol... No one notices or cares 

kosteva2

I'm not a musician.  Couldn't tell any difference.  Whatever they need to do to keep playing great live shows works for me

foriginalsin

ForceofNature101 said:

Now of course a disclaimer:  we all know that a lot more tuning-down of songs started post-Ed vocal issues that resulted in a couple canceled shows.  So I want to emphasize this is not a thread that is complaining about giving Ed a break vocally, which is much deserved.  Rather, when keys of songs are changed, they can alter the vibe of the song regardless and the change is interesting to me

Some songs were tuned down just one or two times (for example Better Man, Given to Fly, 7 O'clock, DTE and Porch in Ottawa, other shows it was Garden, Corduroy, and more) but for the rest of the tour reverted back to the normal (album) tuning. 

Some songs got tuned down and stayed tuned down for the rest of the tour (Even Flow, Quick Escape, Who Ever Said, etc.)

Ever since the last month or so where it has been getting more frequent, which songs do you think worked best with the change in tunings and which do you think just sounded too jarring from what you know the songs to be?   For me personally: Even Flow, DTE, and Breath sounded the most jarring tuning wise.  Release in MSG tuned down 1/2 though sounded really epic and while different, almost had this ethereal feel to it

Habit from the recording seemed jarring to me. I wrote this in the fanview thread from that show. 

“Watch the 2000 pink pop performance and then watch the performance from this show. You will hear the difference quite easily.  

In general, when a guitar is tuned down, the sound becomes heavier and sludgier. Standard tuning is in the key of E. Dropping a full step would be in D. But Habit, (correct me if I'm wrong), is in drop D, which would mean the song is being played in drop C.  Which is low.  A lot of metal bands use that type of tuning. 

Really wanted to get Habit this tour.  I missed it, but im super glad they played it.”

ForceofNature101

Gern Blansten said:

Lol... No one notices or cares 

Serenity now breathe in and out, it will be okay

ForceofNature101

mcgruff10 said:

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't tell the difference.

For me I always have been key-aware, definitely the perfect pitch plays a part in it but the change in vibes can be interesting to me

Gern Blansten

ForceofNature101 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lol... No one notices or cares 

Serenity now breathe in and out, it will be okay

Yeah I didn't start this thread. I should restate that 99.996% of the audience neither notices or cares 

foriginalsin

Im in the .004%.

How dare anyone have a discussion about music objectively. 

bootlegger10

To me, Pearl Jam playing with down tuning is like a bad cover band.  I want my money back.

Chrrie

For a majority of the songs I have to admit I don’t notice, and if it helps Ed preserve his voice or allows us to get songs that would otherwise be retired I am all for it. I will say Quick Escape is the exception for me. It sounds “wrong”. 

foriginalsin

Its totally cool when they do it. If it means i get to hear songs that I wouldn’t in the normal key, im all for it. 

bigbiggzy

They’ve tuned songs down off and on over the years… I think the first time I remember seeing/hearing it was in 08 / 09’ish…

Not a big deal. Most folks don’t even notice…

EF, WES, QE were all tuned down at Camden.  No one around me seemed to care or notice… I couldn’t have cared less. They rocked the hell out. As did I and everyone around me in my section. So fun!!

Honestly…Camden ‘22 was probably among one of the best shows I’ve seen out of my 30’ish. 

foriginalsin

Camden was one of the 3 best setlists of this year. 

bigbiggzy

I agree…

All in all… It’s impressive how they varied up the setlist this go.

TinaE

PB11041 said:

I get being somewhat atune to this especially musicians.  But i feel like it gets way over thought.  PJ didnt invent down tuning, though they have been doing it for years, it is part of the process of performing.  As a fan of live music I honestly don't care if they down tune as long as they are performing well, frankly I don't want the songs to sound exactly as they do off the record, I already have the records.

Agree. For me, a good band shouldn't sound live like on the album. And PJ just sounded and sound great live whether they play slower or in a different key.

mace1229

I only saw the Nashville show. I couldn’t tell a difference. 

I mentioned in another thread about the acoustics that STBC sounded muddy to me and a comment was that’s because it was tuned down. I don’t think that’s why. It was just so loud I couldn’t hear the little guitar licks, just the power chords. But I don’t see how the tuning would effect that.

2-feign-reluctance

The bootlegs sound fucking amazing. Let’s talk more after you’ve listened to what they’ve released this year so far. I bet you won’t fuss over some minor key changes after doing so! 

foriginalsin

Its not fussing or complaining. Its fine if you don’t hear the difference, its just a music theory discussion. 

Merkin Baller

foriginalsin said:

Its not fussing or complaining. Its fine if you don’t hear the difference, its just a music theory discussion. 

& an interesting one at that. I didn't make it to any shows this year so I can't speak for Pearl Jam, but Tool has been playing the Pot in a different key live in recent years, and it does make a difference in how it sounds. 

People do realize that they don't have to comment on every thread, right? Discussing something the band is doing differently doesn't automatically = bitching about it. 

mcgruff10

ForceofNature101 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't tell the difference.

For me I always have been key-aware, definitely the perfect pitch plays a part in it but the change in vibes can be interesting to me

I can tell when I'm out of tune but don't have the ear to tell the difference in tuning.  I like the fact that they are playing songs different to help Ed out.