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2022 Tour - tuned down song experiments - which ones worked, which ones not as much?

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    nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 7,782
    Merkin Baller said:
    foriginalsin said:
    Its not fussing or complaining. Its fine if you don’t hear the difference, its just a music theory discussion. 
    & an interesting one at that. I didn't make it to any shows this year so I can't speak for Pearl Jam, but Tool has been playing the Pot in a different key live in recent years, and it does make a difference in how it sounds. 

    People do realize that they don't have to comment on every thread, right? Discussing something the band is doing differently doesn't automatically = bitching about it. 
    My thoughts exactly. 
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    Weston1283Weston1283 Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 4,631
    I could tell the difference on many of the songs this tour, but I don’t think it took away from the experience at all.  They’re adjusting to Eddie’s current range and it’s completely fine. 

    You can even hear it on Alive if you check out the Ottawa bootleg.  

    I think live, it’s most noticeable on Corduroy 
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    mcg.j.seanmcg.j.sean Posts: 57
    I listened to a lot of the quebec and ottawa boots. Two things:

    1. I noticed it but it didn't really detract overall from the songs (I did think MYM suffered because of it though). 
    2. Eddie sounds amazing, way better than I recall on some of the 2016 boots I heard. 

    I think it's a good trade-off if it helps Ed sound this good. 
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    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,495
    edited September 2022
    Something happened w/ DTE a few years back where Stone forgot to switch out his guitar for the different tuning and they played it in a different key by accident... it was definitely noticeable that something was different about it that night (was that one of the Fenway '18 shows?). Of course, that was accidental where it seems now it's planned. 

    Like with the shorter sets, I'm fine if they have to play in different keys to prolong Ed's singing career. That doesn't mean people can't discuss / acknowledge these changes though. 
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    bigbiggzybigbiggzy Posts: 713
    I also think there might be some consideration by the band/ guitar techs related to the logistics of the setlist. 

    Meaning… They may play a song tuned down due to the previous song/songs that may have been in the same key.

    (Most seem to be assuming it’s soley related to EV.) 
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,969
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnvcfbzb0Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73ypK3As8I
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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    CopperTomCopperTom Posts: 2,990
    It has 0% to do with the techs.  0.000000%
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=28
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    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,495
    CopperTom said:
    It has 0% to do with the techs.  0.000000%
    Agreed… why even have guitar techs if they aren’t backstage preparing the instruments for the next song? 
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    pmasonkcpmasonkc Posts: 16
    Mortality said:
    Overall, I think it's a really positive thing that they should stick to. Dissident is the only song that actually sounds worse tuned down. Release and Garden sound amazing. It was so nice to see Ed not struggling to hit the high notes in Release. Helps the performance so much. 
    This is absolutely my take too.  I play enough guitar to notice a slight difference but the only major difference I noticed was Dissident.  The opening riff by Mike just doesn't sound the same.

    I think Release actually sounds better, the lower key doesn't change much and Ed's vocals are so much stronger.


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    KCjamKCjam Posts: 135
    Oceans from Columbia 2016 seems tuned down, played in a different key maybe?  I was at that show and initially thought they were having some sound issues right off the bat.  Then realized when I bought the boot that that was not the case. 

    Actually sounds really good.  I love this version of it.  Has a whole different vibe!
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    ddeschlerddeschler Posts: 634
    To me, the tempo changes are much more noticeable than the key changes.  And tempo changes the dynamics of a song much more.
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
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    ForceofNature101ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,190

    2-feign-reluctance said:
    The bootlegs sound fucking amazing. Let’s talk more after you’ve listened to what they’ve released this year so far. I bet you won’t fuss over some minor key changes after doing so! 

    As shown via my little first disaimer, not fussing just discussing out of interest :)
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    ForceofNature101ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,190
    edited September 2022
    Merkin Baller said:
    foriginalsin said:
    Its not fussing or complaining. Its fine if you don’t hear the difference, its just a music theory discussion. 
    & an interesting one at that. I didn't make it to any shows this year so I can't speak for Pearl Jam, but Tool has been playing the Pot in a different key live in recent years, and it does make a difference in how it sounds. 

    People do realize that they don't have to comment on every thread, right? Discussing something the band is doing differently doesn't automatically = bitching about it. 

    Good point on the Tool tune - they play it a full step down I believe (drop C) and it definitely has an altered vibe.  Not bad at all! Just different

    With Pearl Jam I think for me it was just a big contrast in audio because they were one of the few bands where a good 90 percent of the catalogue was still done in standard (or drop D) tuning so to me it is a big enough sonic change to stand out

    That being said I heard Ottawa's boot where everything is pretty much tuned down and a song like Porch during its middle solo rock-out section, sounds heavy as hell in Eb. 
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    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,143
    ForceofNature101 said:

    2-feign-reluctance said:
    The bootlegs sound fucking amazing. Let’s talk more after you’ve listened to what they’ve released this year so far. I bet you won’t fuss over some minor key changes after doing so! 

    As shown via my little first disaimer, not fussing just discussing out of interest :)
    Alrighty then! 
    www.cluthelee.com
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    foriginalsinforiginalsin Posts: 697
    Merkin Baller said:
    foriginalsin said:
    Its not fussing or complaining. Its fine if you don’t hear the difference, its just a music theory discussion. 
    & an interesting one at that. I didn't make it to any shows this year so I can't speak for Pearl Jam, but Tool has been playing the Pot in a different key live in recent years, and it does make a difference in how it sounds. 

    People do realize that they don't have to comment on every thread, right? Discussing something the band is doing differently doesn't automatically = bitching about it. 
    Great example. Tool has been doin that with the Pot.  Thats a dramatic one where its very apparent. 

    Also, i totally didnt care when i heard it live this year. Hes great, adam, danny, and justin are all great.  They fucking crushed it. 
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    OceansJennyOceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,176
    edited September 2022
    ddeschler said:
    To me, the tempo changes are much more noticeable than the key changes.  And tempo changes the dynamics of a song much more.
    Yes!! SOLAT is one of my favorite songs, and uptempo SOLAT is just not good. I also prefer slow Even Flow but don’t hate fast EF.

    Actually, the tempo change that’s been in effect for 15+ yrs might be for Ed’s voice too. He can’t hold those long notes anymore, so making the words faster resolves that. Ugh sad realization.

    Also if tuned down = heavier sound I’m into it. Now bring back the distortion for that good ol grungey sound. 😁
    Post edited by OceansJenny on
    DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
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    mrk2mrk2 Finland Posts: 2,026
    Gern Blansten said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnvcfbzb0Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73ypK3As8I
    Both in E standard tuning. What's the point here?
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,013
    OceansJenny said:
    ddeschler said:
    To me, the tempo changes are much more noticeable than the key changes.  And tempo changes the dynamics of a song much more.
    Yes!! SOLAT is one of my favorite songs, and uptempo SOLAT is just not good. 
    https://youtu.be/4mfF-bkDAtY
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,969
    mrk2 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnvcfbzb0Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73ypK3As8I
    Both in E standard tuning. What's the point here?
    guy was saying that the tuning was most noticeable on Corduroy....I disagree and it seems like you do as well
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
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    OceansJennyOceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,176
    edited September 2022
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    OceansJenny said:
    ddeschler said:
    To me, the tempo changes are much more noticeable than the key changes.  And tempo changes the dynamics of a song much more.
    Yes!! SOLAT is one of my favorite songs, and uptempo SOLAT is just not good. 
    https://youtu.be/4mfF-bkDAtY
    WAY too fast - are they in a rush?

    https://youtu.be/bPMjIn4RJug

    Had to cleanse my ears.

    Stone loves original tempo SOLAT. 😁
    Post edited by OceansJenny on
    DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
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    mrk2mrk2 Finland Posts: 2,026
    Gern Blansten said:
    mrk2 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnvcfbzb0Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73ypK3As8I
    Both in E standard tuning. What's the point here?
    guy was saying that the tuning was most noticeable on Corduroy....I disagree and it seems like you do as well
    Yes, definitely the same here.

    But now that I checked some further videos, it seems that they did actually play Corduroy in Eb tuning at the beginning of the tour. The first three shows. Toronto was back to E standard. 
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    ForceofNature101ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,190
    edited September 2022
    Gern Blansten said:
    mrk2 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnvcfbzb0Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73ypK3As8I
    Both in E standard tuning. What's the point here?
    guy was saying that the tuning was most noticeable on Corduroy....I disagree and it seems like you do as well

    Corduroy was one of the tunes that was played in Eb post-Ed voice issues and quickly brought back to standard tuning thereafter, the one you posted was from when they brought it back to its original tuning after a few shows


    Here is the live version tuned down, let me know if this one is more of a contrast to you compared to the original

    Post edited by ForceofNature101 on
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    AlaGAlaG Brookline, MA Posts: 886
    Think the downtuning on Betterman is wayy more noticeable than it is on Corduroy.
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    foriginalsinforiginalsin Posts: 697
    pmasonkc said:
    Mortality said:
    Overall, I think it's a really positive thing that they should stick to. Dissident is the only song that actually sounds worse tuned down. Release and Garden sound amazing. It was so nice to see Ed not struggling to hit the high notes in Release. Helps the performance so much. 
    This is absolutely my take too.  I play enough guitar to notice a slight difference but the only major difference I noticed was Dissident.  The opening riff by Mike just doesn't sound the same.

    I think Release actually sounds better, the lower key doesn't change much and Ed's vocals are so much stronger.


    This is very interesting.  Release and Garden sound great in both keys and I also agree Dissident loses some oomph tuned lower.

    I’m guessing the vocals and mikes lead are in the upper register so maybe that makes a difference? 

    Are release and garden written in a way that makes them easy to move around and change keys?
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,883
    @ForceofNature101 great pickup my friend and I can definitely hear the difference!!  Good stuff.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    ForceofNature101ForceofNature101 Posts: 1,190
    mcgruff10 said:
    @ForceofNature101 great pickup my friend and I can definitely hear the difference!!  Good stuff.  

    Thanks!  Yeah it definitely has a different vibe to it, not bad by any means!  But more... I guess for lack of a better term, menacing sounding?  Especially the intro and the outro solo
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    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,495
    ForceofNature101 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @ForceofNature101 great pickup my friend and I can definitely hear the difference!!  Good stuff.  

    Thanks!  Yeah it definitely has a different vibe to it, not bad by any means!  But more... I guess for lack of a better term, menacing sounding?  Especially the intro and the outro solo
    Different vibe for sure. 

    I dig it. 
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    thomascbullockthomascbullock Posts: 335
    If they’re going to do Corduroy in Eb they should at least give us the bridge back as it should be easier to sing that way.
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,969
    ForceofNature101 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    mrk2 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnvcfbzb0Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73ypK3As8I
    Both in E standard tuning. What's the point here?
    guy was saying that the tuning was most noticeable on Corduroy....I disagree and it seems like you do as well

    Corduroy was one of the tunes that was played in Eb post-Ed voice issues and quickly brought back to standard tuning thereafter, the one you posted was from when they brought it back to its original tuning after a few shows


    Here is the live version tuned down, let me know if this one is more of a contrast to you compared to the original

    to me a 1/2 step is hardly noticeable....I honestly wouldn't be able to say for sure without playing them side by side
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    Cornerstone2211Cornerstone2211 Posts: 4
    The only song I dislike down-tuned is Life Wasted. The rest I really like. 
    Breath at Hyde Park sounded heavier for it and I loved it.
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