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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 42,023
    When making a plate, can't you just make multiples at the same time?

    I wouldn't even know how to google that shit to ask a question and I am sure it'd give Alexa fits.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    Mofi Gives a good breakdown when you buy a one step.




  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    But you have to run the tape every time you need to make a lacquer for a one step. Normal records you would just go back to the mother every time you needed a new stamper.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,377
    tempo_n_groove said:
    When making a plate, can't you just make multiples at the same time?

    I wouldn't even know how to google that shit to ask a question and I am sure it'd give Alexa fits.


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  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    mrussel1 said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Doesn’t mofi already do digital? I thought they differentiate by the “silver label” as I assumed those were digital as that’s when the original master tapes aren’t available.

     I’m assume they could do a one step from a silver label release. As one step is just how they are pressing it, not the source material I thought 
    I think One Step means master tape right to the lacquer.  But the lacquer is only going to have limited stamping ability before it degrades. AP claims to limit its stamping to 1000 presses.  So that's the point of the criticism above.  How can you have a One Step and do 40k pressings without having to go back to the master tape over and over again, which would degrade it?

    If I'm wrong in my assessment, someone correct me. 

    And yes, some MOFI is known digital.  I brought up the Brothers in Arms which was never recorded to tape, but has been pressed a bunch of times by MOFI.  
    I didn’t know that you had to go back to the masters every time.  So yeah that sounds suspicious if you are pressing 40k records and have to go back to the tapes 40 times 

    I haven’t ever seen a mofi release with a production number that high either. Certainly not one step 
    To be clear, I'm not saying MOFI limits their stamping to 1k.  AP does on certain releases and that's a claim to fame, or something that people value.  I don't know how many MOFI tries to get out of each stamper, but certainly it isn't going to be 20 or 30k.  
    I believe mofi has said its 1000 per stamper.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    Also, IDK if people know this but a lacquer is a one and done thing. Once it makes its father/convert, its done and you need to toss it.

  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited July 2022
    Tim Simmons said:
    But you have to run the tape every time you need to make a lacquer for a one step. Normal records you would just go back to the mother every time you needed a new stamper.
    Seems like then it’s a good question if one step is even worth it.  

    There was an interview with the AP guy who said he’s made one step (before mofi I think) he seems to think it’s not necessary 

    if that’s the process and it’s got to be hard on the master it seems like a not very sustainable process .  Make enough one step records and the tape is shot, no one gets them ever again.  Am I interpreting that correctly?
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,024
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    But you have to run the tape every time you need to make a lacquer for a one step. Normal records you would just go back to the mother every time you needed a new stamper.
    Seems like then it’s a good question if one step is even worth it.  

    There was an interview with the AP guy who said he’s made one step (before mofi I think) he seems to think it’s not necessary 

    if that’s the process and it’s got to be hard on the master it seems like a not very sustainable process 
    it lets MOFI take a Janice Joplin Pearl release that went for $50 as a reg MOFI and turn it into a box for $120.  
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    mrussel1 said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    But you have to run the tape every time you need to make a lacquer for a one step. Normal records you would just go back to the mother every time you needed a new stamper.
    Seems like then it’s a good question if one step is even worth it.  

    There was an interview with the AP guy who said he’s made one step (before mofi I think) he seems to think it’s not necessary 

    if that’s the process and it’s got to be hard on the master it seems like a not very sustainable process 
    it lets MOFI take a Janice Joplin Pearl release that went for $50 as a reg MOFI and turn it into a box for $120.  
    What I’m waiting for is a one step and an AP UHQR to do a side by side.  I don’t think there currently is one on both 


  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 42,023
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    When making a plate, can't you just make multiples at the same time?

    I wouldn't even know how to google that shit to ask a question and I am sure it'd give Alexa fits.


    So I called it a master and here it's a lacquer...  That is why I found nadda.

    I still don't see why you can't make multiple Laquers from the master tapes.  It would be like having 10 tape decks recording off of one main source?

    Shouldn't it be that easy?

    OK so I did google and found this article.  It seems that no one knows how to make these contraptions anymore and the ones who know how they ware growing older.

    https://thevinylfactory.com/features/apollo-transco-lacquer-impact-vinyl-industry/
  • MedozK
    MedozK Tennessee Posts: 9,212
    I would bet that 1 to 1 copies of the master tape are made. They run those tapes to cut the lacquers. No way the studios are letting the actual master tape be ran that much. Safety copies have been used for years cutting records.

    You could also have a set up to cut multiple lacquers at one time like The Mastering Lab used to do. Run the tape and cut 3 lacquers at once.

    But for the newest 1-Step of Thriller being 40,000 copies. Thats 40 lacquers... not sure how they did it... but I can assure you they didn't run the actual master tape 40 times.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 42,023
    MedozK said:
    I would bet that 1 to 1 copies of the master tape are made. They run those tapes to cut the lacquers. No way the studios are letting the actual master tape be ran that much. Safety copies have been used for years cutting records.

    You could also have a set up to cut multiple lacquers at one time like The Mastering Lab used to do. Run the tape and cut 3 lacquers at once.

    But for the newest 1-Step of Thriller being 40,000 copies. Thats 40 lacquers... not sure how they did it... but I can assure you they didn't run the actual master tape 40 times.
    So they can make multiples at once.  Thought they could.

    As someone mentioned the tape being worn out, have you ever seen the Freddie Mercury movie?  They show them mixing 100 times on the same tape.  Pretty wild.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    Cropduster-80 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    But you have to run the tape every time you need to make a lacquer for a one step. Normal records you would just go back to the mother every time you needed a new stamper.
    Seems like then it’s a good question if one step is even worth it.  

    There was an interview with the AP guy who said he’s made one step (before mofi I think) he seems to think it’s not necessary 

    if that’s the process and it’s got to be hard on the master it seems like a not very sustainable process 
    it lets MOFI take a Janice Joplin Pearl release that went for $50 as a reg MOFI and turn it into a box for $120.  
    What I’m waiting for is a one step and an AP UHQR to do a side by side.  I don’t think there currently is one on both 


    Kind of Blue 45 UHQR is supposed to be out this fall I believe. Then you could do a side by side. I compared the 45 mofi to the 33 UHQR and can't tell the difference. 
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    MedozK said:
    I would bet that 1 to 1 copies of the master tape are made. They run those tapes to cut the lacquers. No way the studios are letting the actual master tape be ran that much. Safety copies have been used for years cutting records.

    this is what I think the actual answer is. They get the master and run a copy to new tape and then use that over and over. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,024
    Tim Simmons said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    But you have to run the tape every time you need to make a lacquer for a one step. Normal records you would just go back to the mother every time you needed a new stamper.
    Seems like then it’s a good question if one step is even worth it.  

    There was an interview with the AP guy who said he’s made one step (before mofi I think) he seems to think it’s not necessary 

    if that’s the process and it’s got to be hard on the master it seems like a not very sustainable process 
    it lets MOFI take a Janice Joplin Pearl release that went for $50 as a reg MOFI and turn it into a box for $120.  
    What I’m waiting for is a one step and an AP UHQR to do a side by side.  I don’t think there currently is one on both 


    Kind of Blue 45 UHQR is supposed to be out this fall I believe. Then you could do a side by side. I compared the 45 mofi to the 33 UHQR and can't tell the difference. 
    I can tell a difference but it's in the mix.  KW at MOFI masters heavy in the bass.  I can tell the difference in the sound.  I like the UHQR better.  I'm not saying it's higher quality though.  I also think 45 is not right for some records that demand continuity.  KOB is one of them for me.  I have heard it so often, getting up three times to flip is no good.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,024
    Tim Simmons said:
    MedozK said:
    I would bet that 1 to 1 copies of the master tape are made. They run those tapes to cut the lacquers. No way the studios are letting the actual master tape be ran that much. Safety copies have been used for years cutting records.

    this is what I think the actual answer is. They get the master and run a copy to new tape and then use that over and over. 
    But that's no longer a One Step, right?  You've added a generation into the mix.  
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    Yeah, MoFi's copy itself states "a set of lacquers," not a single lacquer.

    Unless that copy was recently changed, I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

    Reading is hard, I guess.
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    edited July 2022
    Besides all the interesting information posted here recently, another thing I wonder is, Who- beside the hard working fellow in Japan in his shop who works hard making very limited numbers of them- is making lacquers these day after the Apollo Masters Corporation fire in 2020 that destroyed the ONE plant that made the vast majority of them? 
    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    mrussel1 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    MedozK said:
    I would bet that 1 to 1 copies of the master tape are made. They run those tapes to cut the lacquers. No way the studios are letting the actual master tape be ran that much. Safety copies have been used for years cutting records.

    this is what I think the actual answer is. They get the master and run a copy to new tape and then use that over and over. 
    But that's no longer a One Step, right?  You've added a generation into the mix.  
    Ah. You’re right.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,358
    edited July 2022
    brianlux said:
    Besides all the interesting information posted here recently, another thing I wonder is, Who- beside that Asian guy in his garage who makes very limited numbers of them- is making lacquers these day after the Apollo Masters Corporation fire in 2020 that destroyed the ONE plant that made the vast majority of them? 
    Just “him”, but “guy in his garage” has been overstated. It’s a legit company and not a garage. Apparently he’s holding it down for the time being. Also there was stock from Apollo too. 

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