*** -- PROCESSING Your Philadelphia 76ers -- ***

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    Kayyyyy Deeeee. DO IT.
    He wants to go to teams that were already in the Conference Finals recently. Has any player ever been more of a frontrunner than this guy?
    Yeah I've never been a fan....unless he becomes a Sixer. Then I am all in. lol

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  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,704
    Kayyyyy Deeeee. DO IT.
    He wants to go to teams that were already in the Conference Finals recently. Has any player ever been more of a frontrunner than this guy?
    yea he makes LeBron look stable.  Stud player but what a loser.   
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 15,268
    Kayyyyy Deeeee. DO IT.
    He wants to go to teams that were already in the Conference Finals recently. Has any player ever been more of a frontrunner than this guy?
    Yeah I've never been a fan....unless he becomes a Sixer. Then I am all in. lol

    I don't know how anyone couldn't be a fan. He is, uh, very good at basketball. It's not happening but if somehow in hell Maxey would get the deal done in some form or fashion. Well, then, buh bye Tyrese.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,791
    edited July 1
    He’s a tooooooool, but I’d give up every pick forever to get it done. 
  • DeamonDeamon Posts: 139
    We all must be happy about the Sixers signing a guy named PJ right?

    I would be if I didn't hate Tucker so much.
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,115
    Kayyyyy Deeeee. DO IT.
    He wants to go to teams that were already in the Conference Finals recently. Has any player ever been more of a frontrunner than this guy?
    Yeah I've never been a fan....unless he becomes a Sixer. Then I am all in. lol

    I don't know how anyone couldn't be a fan. He is, uh, very good at basketball. It's not happening but if somehow in hell Maxey would get the deal done in some form or fashion. Well, then, buh bye Tyrese.
    There's only one guy on the Sixers' roster who would get a Durant deal done, and I don't see them trading Embiid.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,060
    Poncier said:
    Kayyyyy Deeeee. DO IT.
    He wants to go to teams that were already in the Conference Finals recently. Has any player ever been more of a frontrunner than this guy?
    Yeah I've never been a fan....unless he becomes a Sixer. Then I am all in. lol

    I don't know how anyone couldn't be a fan. He is, uh, very good at basketball. It's not happening but if somehow in hell Maxey would get the deal done in some form or fashion. Well, then, buh bye Tyrese.
    There's only one guy on the Sixers' roster who would get a Durant deal done, and I don't see them trading Embiid.
    I don’t think he will end up on the Sixers, but I’m yet to see a realistic suggestion for where he does end up. Have you seen that huge list of players that they are ineligible to trade for because of having Ben Simmons? Some weird rule about rookie contracts. That Suns package that everyone seems to think is the obvious choice does not look good to me. 
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 15,268
    RiotZact said:
    Poncier said:
    Kayyyyy Deeeee. DO IT.
    He wants to go to teams that were already in the Conference Finals recently. Has any player ever been more of a frontrunner than this guy?
    Yeah I've never been a fan....unless he becomes a Sixer. Then I am all in. lol

    I don't know how anyone couldn't be a fan. He is, uh, very good at basketball. It's not happening but if somehow in hell Maxey would get the deal done in some form or fashion. Well, then, buh bye Tyrese.
    There's only one guy on the Sixers' roster who would get a Durant deal done, and I don't see them trading Embiid.
    I don’t think he will end up on the Sixers, but I’m yet to see a realistic suggestion for where he does end up. Have you seen that huge list of players that they are ineligible to trade for because of having Ben Simmons? Some weird rule about rookie contracts. That Suns package that everyone seems to think is the obvious choice does not look good to me. 
    Yeah not good. Agree that I saw he can basically call the shot where he goes, if he wants to torpedo this whole deal then Brooklyn will need to swallow whatever is the best option on the table for where he wants to go. MVPs can do that, Ben Simmons not so much.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,115
    Yeah, I saw them talking about the rookie extension rule on ESPN last night. They can't have 2 guys on the team on rookie contract extensions who were acquired by trade apparently, so they'd have to trade Simmons in order to take one of those guys on for Durant. Coupled with the likelihood that Kyrie is going out in a deal separate to KD, this thing is extremely complicated, and it's a lot harder for Brooklyn to get the value for Durant that he should normally command.
    Made for a wild start to the free agency period.

    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 8,516
    Maybe Ben Simmons will get traded to the Celtics...

    They can all chant "not a rookie" every game. I still don't understand all that. Like, who cares.
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 15,268
    Sixers free agency day 1: what you need to know
    BY DEREK BODNER – 01 JUL 2022 – VIEW ONLINE →
    Gary A. Vasquez-USA TODAY Sports

    The Sixers added depth on the opening day of free agency, coming to agreements with free agents P.J. Tucker, Danuel House and Trevelin Queen, a source has confirmed to The Daily Six. Those deals were first reported by Shams CharaniaCharania again and Adrian Wojnarowski, respectively.

    The deals for Tucker and House would equal a combined $41.4 million over the course of their contracts, which is quite a bit of spending for a team whose biggest offseason signing the past two offseasons was Georges Niang, and who just a few days ago most thought would struggle to stay under the luxury tax apron.

    That all became possible because James Harden elected to opt out of his $47.4 million player option for this upcoming season and agree to a significantly reduced contract that will reportedly start in the mid-$30 million range, clearing the way for the Sixers to offer the non-taxpayer and bi-annual exceptions and still have enough room under the $157 million apron, which now becomes a hard cap after these moves.

    There's been some debate in Philadelphia over just how much Harden is sacrificing financially over the long term to give the Sixers the short-term flexibility under the luxury tax apron needed to make these moves possible. While it's tough to fully comment on this until we know the full details of what Harden will sign for, I do think Harden deserves credit.

    We're just nine months removed from Harden turning down a three-year, $161 million contract extension from the Nets, which would have paid him a total of $208.4 million over the next four years (his player option for this year + these three new ones). He didn't have the leverage to get that this summer, something which I discussed a few weeks ago when I noted that I didn't think Harden had enough leverage to get a long-term deal worth more than ~$130m total this summer.

    But a common, and understandable, response from someone accustomed to being one of the best basketball players in the world would be to either opt-in, take his full $47.4 million and bet on himself to show the world he still has something left in the tank, or to haggle with the Sixers for as long as he possibly could to recoup as much of that lost money as possible.

    Aging stars are very rarely able to asses and accept their new reality as they hit their mid-30s.

    The bottom line is if Harden goes down either of those paths the Sixers don't have Tucker and House. If he opts in, they don't have the space under the apron threshold to make these signings. If he opts out, but pushes for every cent he can get from a GM who clearly wants him around for more than just one more year, the Sixers can't commit to using their exceptions until they have certainty over what Harden will actually be willing to accept.

    By coming to grips with his massive pay cut early and agreeing in principle to the deal in advance, he allowed the Sixers to be active players at the start of free agency. It was far from a guarantee that things would turn out this way, even if you don't believe that Harden had the leverage to command significantly more guaranteed money than what he will eventually get from the Sixers.

    Overview of moves

    • P.J. Tucker: 3 years, $33 million, fully guaranteed. (Non-taxpayer mid-level).
    • Danuel House: 2 years, $8.4 million, second year is a player option (bi-annual exception).
    • Trevelin Queen: 2 years, $300k guaranteed in the first season, second season is non-guaranteed).
    • Did not extend a qualifying offer to Myles Powell, making him an unrestricted free agent. That leaves Charlie Brown Jr and Julian Champagnie as the current occupants of the Sixers' two-way slots.

    Related: I've updated the Sixers' salary cap sheet with details on the new contracts.

    Related article: What should the Sixers prioritize in  James Harden contract negotiations?

    How much is left for Harden?

    Right now, the Sixers have about $36.4 million in space under the luxury tax apron, which sets the maximum amount they could give Harden as a starting salary on his new deal. But that number is fluid.

    First, there are a couple of players (Paul Reed, Isaiah Joe, Charles Bassey and Trevelin Queen, specifically) who are on non-guaranteed, or partially guaranteed, deals. There could also be trades that come to fruition over the next few days that could alter the Sixers' available space. Right now, there's not much reason to get too caught up on what this number is at the moment. It can, and likely will, change. The key is that Harden has given the Sixers the green light to make this all happen.

    Roster limit?

    Adding Tucker, House and Queen leaves the Sixers with 15 players under contract – before the signing of James Harden.

    That doesn't necessarily mean there is a corresponding roster move necessary before the Sixers can sign Harden, though, as the roster limit is increased to 20 for the offseason. The Sixers don't have to trim the roster back down to 15 until October.

    What the Sixers added

    Over the course of the last week, the Sixers added three players – De'Anthony Melton, Danuel House and P.J. Tucker – who can all shoot from the perimeter and hold their own (or better) defensively, and they did so while adding three different defensive archetypes to their rotation, with the 6'3" Melton chasing guards on the perimeter, the 6'7" House pestering wings, and the 6'5" hyper-versatile Tucker, who can step out onto Jaylen Brown one possession and play as a small-ball center the next, a role he kickstarted with Daryl Morey and the Rockets a few years back.

    I suppose I should get this out of the way, but yes, the Sixers likely overpaid for both Tucker and House.

    For Tucker, the per-year salary, especially at the start of the contract, is perfectly reasonable for what he provides on the basketball court. If he can duplicate what he did for the Miami Heat last season he is easily worth the $10.5 million he will get from the Sixers this year.

    And in the first year of the contract there's a reasonable degree of confidence that he can still be that player. The goal when you sign a deal like this is that Tucker will still be a positive contributor (maybe not worth his salary, but a viable rotation player) for year two of his deal. After that, he's an expiring contract they can use to match salary in a trade if he (somewhat expectedly) falls off of a cliff as he approaches 40.

    The House contract – $8.4 million, with a player option in year two – might be a tough pill to swallow for some, especially when you factor in that House played on three different teams last season, including two deals on 10-day contracts. But I think fit is important here. I don't think it's a coincidence that House shot 38.1% (203-533) from deep during his two seasons with Harden in Houston, then 33.7% (64-190) during the rest of his non-Harden Rockets tenure, then back up to 41.5% (34-82) with the Jazz, when he once again had high level perimeter scorers to create easier looks for him.

    I think it's reasonable to expect that you'll get something closer to the 2018-2020 version of House than the one who played for the Rockets the past year and a half, and after finding his footing with the Utah Jazz to close out the season you weren't going to get him back on a minimum deal. Is it an overpay? Perhaps. But I think he's a good fit, not only because of how Harden can create open looks for him but also because he has the size to defend wings that Melton cannot. They needed a 3-and-D wing of that archetype to bring in off the bench and there weren't a ton of quality options out there.

    There are other players who intrigued me with these exceptions, even if I didn't spend much time talking about them (because Tucker was a foregone conclusion, and because using the BAE seemed like wishful thinking). I'll be very interested to see what Bruce Brown (MLE target), TJ Warren (MLE) and the Martin twins (BAE targets) eventually sign for, even while acknowledging that I don't know if any of them had an interest in Philly. Warren, of course, presents different (but equally frightening) concerns with his health.

    Still, I do think the familiarity with Harden matters, and I do think Embiid publicly stanning for someone of Tucker's style, and for Tucker specifically, matters. The last point isn't necessarily the be-all and end-all (what makes Embiid happy now won't matter if it fails to provide value in nine months), but I also don't think the Sixers missed on Tucker or House.

    After losing Danny Green to injury the Sixers had precisely zero players who could be even remotely credible as a defender against Jayson Tatum and who could make a shot on the perimeter on the other end. They added two yesterday. Neither are perfect players, of course. Far from it. But they should be useful.

    I'll have more thoughts on Tucker, House, and Queen to share over the course of the offseason.

    Why no Harden contract yet?

    The deal that everybody was waiting on, the deal that made the other moves possible, wasn't announced yesterday. In fact, according to Woj, the two sides will meet over the weekend to negotiate the deal.

    Don't fret too much (or at all) about this.

    The Sixers would not have pulled the trigger on the Tucker and House contracts, with exact, reported numbers for each contract at the max starting value for their respective exceptions, if they didn't have assurances that Harden would accept what space they have left to work with.

    There's still quite a bit of intrigue over what the details of the contract turn out to be (is it a 3-year deal? 4-year with a partial guarantee on the last season? A 1+1 deal, as Shams suggested it could be?), but Harden being okay with the lowered starting point is something that Morey clearly already knows the answer to.

    Is this enough? Does this move the needle?

    Over the last 12 hours I've seen a wide range of reactions from fans and the media, ranging from the Sixers winning the offseason to none of these moves truly mattering.

    I think a lot of that discrepancy comes down to what you think of James Harden, of what he has left in the tank, and of what opportunities the Sixers really had to go star hunting this summer.

    There is a contingent that don't believe in James Harden at this stage of his career, and who felt the Sixers had to acquire another impact player to compensate for Harden's decline. If you're in this group, then neither P.J. Tucker or Danuel House matter all that much.

    Then there's a group that saw how woeful the Sixers' bench was last season, who believe that if Joel Embiid had been healthy they could have beaten the Heat, and that the combination of improving the bench and Embiid being healthy could allow them to challenge for the Eastern Conference crown. To this group, getting legitimate role players in Melton, Tucker and House, rather than relying on Georges Niang on a gimpy knee for 25+ minutes per game, is a victory, especially when you factor in that before news of Harden's discount was announced most were worried that the Sixers would only have the smaller taxpayer mid-level to work with.

    I guess the way I would phrase it is this: the legitimacy of the Sixers as a championship contender will still be driven by Embiid, Harden and Maxey. If Embiid gets hurt, if Harden doesn't get some of his burst back, or if Maxey doesn't take yet another step, then these moves probably aren't going to cover up the Sixers' flaws as a team.

    But if Harden is able to get even just a bit of his burst back, or if Harden and Embiid form incredible two-man chemistry to make the most of their respective skill sets, or if Maxey takes a massive leap forward for the second year in a row, then the Sixers are now in a position where they have the depth necessary to capitalize if their star power does deliver.

    Tucker, House and Melton won't be the driving factor in the Sixers' championship equity, but they're a required improvement to be a credible contender if it gets to that point.

    Two other things I'd note here: first, a lot of the focus for the "get another star" contingent was centered on Bradley Beal, and I never felt like he was leaving Washington. And in that vein, I think all of the reports over Morey being "star hunting" this summer led fans down a path that wasn't necessarily realistic. I think Morey is, and always will be star hunting, of course. I just didn't think the opportunity was going to be there this summer.

    Second, I think some of these moves could help if an opportunity for a star does present itself down the line. That's in part because of the acquisition of Melton on a below-market contract, but also just the sheer filler salaries the Sixers now have to work with, something they were completely lacking last year following the Harden acquisition. We saw last year with Curry how having these mid-sized, positive value contracts can help get deals through the finish line. The Sixers now have more of them to work with if the opportunity ever presents itself.

    Is this all?

    I can't help but wonder (and I'm just wondering, here, not reporting on anything) whether the Sixers are holding back from announcing Harden's contract because they don't know for sure exactly how much available space they'll have under the apron to work with, at least not to the point where they could put a precise value to the deal. With the NTMLE and BAE exceptions both already reported on, there's only one thing that could theoretically change that available space in a meaningful way: a trade.

    I'm not suggesting that they have anything finalized, or even that they definitely will have something in the next few days, just that they may be holding off leaking the Harden news until they see how things shake out across the league over the next few days and see if there's anything that materializes and makes sense.

    Again, this is just tea leaf reading and thinking out loud.

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    15M pay cut for 2 years with the 2nd year a player option definitely seems like a best case scenario for us. Dude is forgoing millions to win a championship next year and betting on himself when he absolutely did not have to. 

    Love it. 
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 15,268
    15M pay cut for 2 years with the 2nd year a player option definitely seems like a best case scenario for us. Dude is forgoing millions to win a championship next year and betting on himself when he absolutely did not have to. 

    Love it. 
    Great deal for the Sixers.
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 37,392
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  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 8,516
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  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,704
    I really like the idea of a basketball only arena.  I'm sure that location will get a lot of push back from the residents in the area though. Will be a tough sell there.  
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 8,516
    pjhawks said:
    I really like the idea of a basketball only arena.  I'm sure that location will get a lot of push back from the residents in the area though. Will be a tough sell there.  
    IDK - that area is pretty dead. It's a couple blocks from Chinatown, not much else going on around there.
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  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 8,516
    I suggested Keystone Court but of course it'll be named after some stupid profiteering corporation.

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/sixers-new-arena-naming-rights-reader-submissions-20220721.html
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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,791
    Washington Square is definitely going to pitch a fit 
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 37,392
    pjhawks said:
    I really like the idea of a basketball only arena.  I'm sure that location will get a lot of push back from the residents in the area though. Will be a tough sell there.  

    so it will just be the flyers at the WFC in 10 more years? Yeah it looks cool but anything can happen in the next 10 years or so.
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 15,268
    Love this. Finally one of the teams looking to be dead set in the middle of the city. Also figure it makes a ton of sense for the Sixers to own their own arena since they don't like being under Comcast and the Flyers. What I dont want is a taxpayer funded arena and/or god forbid they put something in Jersey. 
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 8,516
    How many suburban boomers actually like the NBA anyway?
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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,791
    How many suburban boomers actually like the NBA anyway?

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,058
    edited July 27
    Remember when people were saying the owners wanted to leave the city a few years ago? lol

    HAVING SAID THAT......I think there's next to a zero percent chance that arena ever gets built in Center City. 
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 15,268
    That's why I brought up Jersey. People were contacted via a push poll with venue locations of the Navy Yard, Center City, and Jersey in a poll. At the end of the day, I think it's a ploy for leverage with Wells Fargo Center in their next lease. But I wouldn't ultimately rule it out since they put together a development group. I'd lean 60/40, 70/30 that it doesn't happen. I mean this is 9 years from now.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,791
    I don't see why it would be an issue from the city's perspective since it's completely privately financed.  Plus I think they'd welcome 12k people coming to Center City 40+ nights a year, especially that area which has a big influx of bars and restaurants.

    They obviously need significant improvements to suburban station to make it happen, but that should happen regardless.
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 8,516
    I don't see why it would be an issue from the city's perspective since it's completely privately financed.  Plus I think they'd welcome 12k people coming to Center City 40+ nights a year, especially that area which has a big influx of bars and restaurants.

    They obviously need significant improvements to suburban station to make it happen, but that should happen regardless.
    Market East (or Jefferson - does any other city sell naming rights to train stations?)

    Chinatown is already fighting back against it. "Gentrification"  Sigh
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