SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States)

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

if im an opposing coach i am going to have my players say allahu akbar and see if anything happens to me.

Well remember, he didn't force anyone.  It wasn't a condition of anything.  But it would be very interesting if we did have a Muslim or Jewish coach in a sport facilitate a similar prayer.  I'm good with the ruling, but cynically think that it won't be enforced equally under the law.  

mrussel1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

if im an opposing coach i am going to have my players say allahu akbar and see if anything happens to me.

Well remember, he didn't force anyone.  It wasn't a condition of anything.  But it would be very interesting if we did have a Muslim or Jewish coach in a sport facilitate a similar prayer.  I'm good with the ruling, but cynically think that it won't be enforced equally under the law.  

How about a satan worshiper?  That was always the argument that I thought back to when this issue came up. If we let a coach lead a prayer for jesus we should be ready for satan to pop up at some point.

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

I doubt the school would have kicked up the fuss to begin with for a Muslim prayer.
Is there a single case against a Muslim prayer, or wearing a hijab or anything?

At the Supreme Court not that I know of,  that doesn’t mean a case wasn’t decided at a lower level and the Supreme Court declined to hear it, letting a lower court case stand 

I don’t think anyone other than Christians are this forward though pushing their expression of religion onto others especially in public schools and especially authority figures (teachers/coaches) It’s also actually physically dangerous to a Muslim  if they do

i don’t think the fact there isn’t a case necessarily means it’s an apples to apples comparison 

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

if im an opposing coach i am going to have my players say allahu akbar and see if anything happens to me.

You don’t see the difference between having a private prayer and offering students to join vs asking them to shout out “allah akbar” as a team?
No one asked the kids to join the prayer.

I do not see a difference.

No one asked the kids to join but the appearance of favoritism would be obvious no matter how blatant or non blatant

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

if im an opposing coach i am going to have my players say allahu akbar and see if anything happens to me.

You don’t see the difference between having a private prayer and offering students to join vs asking them to shout out “allah akbar” as a team?
No one asked the kids to join the prayer.

I do not see a difference.

No one asked the kids to join but the appearance of favoritism would be obvious no matter how blatant or non blatant

Telling vs. asking is the difference. Another coach can raise a pumpkin above his head and ask if anyone wants to join him in honoring the great pumpkin. They are protecting private speech. I agree that it will not be enforced similarly or accepted, but this precedent would protect an anthem kneeler, a devil worshiper and a muslim the same. The social out cry would definitely be different though.

Edit: I'll also add that if the star player is atheist I doubt his playing time is affected. Could the coach harbor favoritism to the middle of the road players, possibly, but let's be real, most of these coaches would sell their soul for a winning HS football team. They are usually trying to bend every rule they can to get the best players on the field at all times. I doubt their religion will make a difference in playing time unless they play for St. Mary's Holy Angels and say fuck Jesus before the game.

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

if im an opposing coach i am going to have my players say allahu akbar and see if anything happens to me.

You don’t see the difference between having a private prayer and offering students to join vs asking them to shout out “allah akbar” as a team?
No one asked the kids to join the prayer.

I do not see a difference.

No one asked the kids to join but the appearance of favoritism would be obvious no matter how blatant or non blatant

I think the appearance of favoritism is a secondary concern compared to the violation of a free speech right.  It's a difficult decision that fundamentally comes down to whether an individual's right supersedes a perceived interest of society.  I don't think it's insane to protect individual rights first and foremost.  That is a basis of our Constitution.  

Gern Blansten said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i guess it is ok to kneel on a football field to pray, but not in silent protest.

It’s always the Cristian prayer cases. 

 I would have preferred a Muslim coach doing Muslim prayers before games and getting fired after the parents freak out and assume he is improperly using his influence to convert Christian kids to Islam and that going to the supreme court. 

they are protecting Christian prayer, not prayer generally as it doesn’t work out that way in practice unless you are a Christian 

if im an opposing coach i am going to have my players say allahu akbar and see if anything happens to me.

You don’t see the difference between having a private prayer and offering students to join vs asking them to shout out “allah akbar” as a team?
No one asked the kids to join the prayer.

I do not see a difference.

No one asked the kids to join but the appearance of favoritism would be obvious no matter how blatant or non blatant

even seeing a muslim praying upsets a lot of evangelicals, never mind the fact their kids are “forced to watch it” too.  I can’t understand why seeing a Christian pray can’t also be seen as offensive.  It should be the same no matter who is doing it.  Either always acceptable or never, not one or the other 

agreed...there are too many derivations of christianity for me to be comfortable having a fucking coach influence any of my kids. Fuck that

Influence? If that is the fear, have a conversation about religion with your kid. They have much worse influences every day just by going to school. If you are really concerned, reach out to the coach and have a conversation about your concerns and what his intentions are. Just seems like we want to make this in to more than it needs to be because we know most conservatives would flip their shit if prayer rugs were laid out at the 50 yard line at the end of the game.

if I thought it was an isolated incident I’d be fine with it 

-Prayer in school 
-intelligent design/creationism in science class (that’s been going on a while) certain cities in my home state takes take kids in public school to a creationism museum for a field trip… one of the ones where humans and dinosaurs live together. The earth is only 6000 years old obviously 
-climate change isn’t happening in science classes 
-Abstinence only sex education 
-american exceptionalism in history class
-true impacts of racism is illegal to teach 
-can’t discuss sexuality 

some schools actually teach traditional gender roles. Women belong at home etc 

All of it starts with normalising religion, especially politicised religion in places it doesn’t belong 

Cropduster-80 said:

if I thought it was an isolated incident I’d be fine with it 

-Prayer in school 
-intelligent design/creationism in science class (that’s been going on a while) certain cities in my home state takes take kids in public school to a creationism museum for a field trip… one of the ones where humans and dinosaurs live together. The earth is only 6000 years old obviously 
-climate change isn’t happening in science classes 
-Abstinence only sex education 
-american exceptionalism in history class
-true impacts of racism is illegal to teach 
-can’t discuss sexuality 

some schools actually teach traditional gender roles. Women belong at home etc 

All of it starts with normalising religion, especially politicised religion in places it doesn’t belong 

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

the incrementalism argument is the same one gun enthusiasts use and we dismiss. 

Don’t even need to go there.

” Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

They offered the coach a private place to pray and exercise his religion, and tried to negotiate, but the coach would rather bully us with his religious rituals on the fifty yard line, on a field paid for by the public while getting paid by the public.

 If allowing the leader of the football team to practice religion on a publicly paid for field during game activities help isnt establishing religion as part of the high school program, I’m not sure words matter anymore, because America has lost its way.

He literally argued against the first amendment and won based on first amendment “Every American should be able to have faith in public and not to be worried about being fired over it." 

Forget the Roe ruling, if there is anything screaming for democrats to add judges to this disgraceful court, it’s this decision.

The school was prohibiting free exercise of religion.  

I think you're all off base on this.  If the coach linked PT to the prayer,  then the case would be stronger. But I have not heard that he did.  So he was exercising his freedoms as an individual.