^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
Funding is way too high.
Uvalde spends 40 percent of their entire budget on police. They have a SWAT unit. It’s a small town. Plus they are crawling with border patrol agents too.
Spending more on police means police end up responding to more calls that shouldn’t even involve police. If police became more specialised they would be smaller.
Police are trained to be aggressive. Full stop 95 percent (probably) of all calls don’t require those skills
increasing police spending takes it away from something else. Usually that’s touchy felt stuff like mental health, community outreach, poverty programs. The governor of Texas cut 200 million from mental health programs then blamed the violence on a mental health problem
I saw a witness say there were police inside engaging the whole time. Who she was and how she knows that I don’t know. But I’m sure the entire force was on scene, I doubt anyone was following up on a stolen bike report at the time, so it makes sense there could be several outside trying to create a perimeter while others were inside. And I have no idea what was going on inside. We know children were still alive in that room, so he could have been threatening to kill more if they break the door down, I don’t think we know yet. The videos look bad of families begging cops to go in. But we don’t know what was happening, and I’m betting more likely than not there was a lot more going on than what we are aware of yet.
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
In my opinion they need to hire more police...less military equipment and more people on the streets that are better trained and better supervised.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
I can't disagree more. In my mind more police means having the staffing to support constant training. Make them ready for unusual situations rather than plopping their asses in cars and writing speeding tickets.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
but what cropduster said is true...why aren't we a society of prevention instead of reaction? why do we lie in wait for disaster to strike when we have the tools to prevent said disaster in the first place?
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
I can't disagree more. In my mind more police means having the staffing to support constant training. Make them ready for unusual situations rather than plopping their asses in cars and writing speeding tickets.
If someone wants to do something crazy no one is stopping them. 5 police to every 1 civilian won’t even matter considering you can unload 50 rounds in 6 seconds
stopping that person from doing it in the first place is harder and involves spending money on programs that are less popular
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
I can't disagree more. In my mind more police means having the staffing to support constant training. Make them ready for unusual situations rather than plopping their asses in cars and writing speeding tickets.
If someone wants to do something crazy no one is stopping them. 5 police to every 1 civilian won’t even matter considering you can unload 50 rounds in 6 seconds
stopping that person from doing it in the first place is harder and involves spending money on programs that are less popular
well yeah...no way you can stop everything. But you can be better trained.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
With respect... not here in Ontario... and most of Canada I think. We have directives known as 'Community Policing' and it's very much pro-active as opposed to reactive. Police engage with people on the streets.. engage in volunteer programs, after school programs, walk public spaces, attend events, school liasons, etc.
We just has an event at my workplace last week for Community Policing. Auxiliary cops and street cops were at a booth open to the public for information, questions etc. and had their K-9 unit here as well to provide information about what they do etc.
One of my trainers many moons ago once spoke about how he would often shake his head when he saw parents attempt to use police as a mechanism for punishment. "Pick up your garbage Johnny, or I'm going to tell that policeman over there." You never want to be afraid of police or have them be seen as the 'Enforcers.' They are for the public to serve the public and WHEN the shit hits the fan... they are the brave humans that will boldly run into a building with a shooter as opposed to out of it. And they should have the skills to match aggression with aggression... but never be the aggressors.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
I can't disagree more. In my mind more police means having the staffing to support constant training. Make them ready for unusual situations rather than plopping their asses in cars and writing speeding tickets.
If someone wants to do something crazy no one is stopping them. 5 police to every 1 civilian won’t even matter considering you can unload 50 rounds in 6 seconds
stopping that person from doing it in the first place is harder and involves spending money on programs that are less popular
well yeah...no way you can stop everything. But you can be better trained.
It’s also hard to quantify an event that doesn’t happen.
policing is about stats. Arrests, clearance rates etc. It’s set up to catch criminals after a crime happens.
You cannot engage in proactive crime prevention and still maintain your stats
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
I can't disagree more. In my mind more police means having the staffing to support constant training. Make them ready for unusual situations rather than plopping their asses in cars and writing speeding tickets.
If someone wants to do something crazy no one is stopping them. 5 police to every 1 civilian won’t even matter considering you can unload 50 rounds in 6 seconds
stopping that person from doing it in the first place is harder and involves spending money on programs that are less popular
well yeah...no way you can stop everything. But you can be better trained.
It’s also hard to quantify an event that doesn’t happen.
policing is about stats. Arrests, clearance rates etc. It’s set up to catch criminals after a crime happens.
You cannot engage in proactive crime prevention and still maintain your stats
Right....that needs to change
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
With respect... not here in Ontario... and most of Canada I think. We have directives known as 'Community Policing' and it's very much pro-active as opposed to reactive. Police engage with people on the streets.. engage in volunteer programs, after school programs, walk public spaces, attend events, school liasons, etc.
We just has an event at my workplace last week for Community Policing. Auxiliary cops and street cops were at a booth open to the public for information, questions etc. and had their K-9 unit here as well to provide information about what they do etc.
One of my trainers many moons ago once spoke about how he would often shake his head when he saw parents attempt to use police as a mechanism for punishment. "Pick up your garbage Johnny, or I'm going to tell that policeman over there." You never want to be afraid of police or have them be seen as the 'Enforcers.' They are for the public to serve the public and WHEN the shit hits the fan... they are the brave humans that will boldly run into a building with a shooter as opposed to out of it. And they should have the skills to match aggression with aggression... but never be the aggressors.
but that's also a good argument for "defunding the police". it's not all about taking money away from police forces; it's moving that money away from enforcement and towards engagement, as you outlined above. I think a lot of the "defund" folks would be more than happy if police training contained, in a large part, society engagement training, much like a social worker.
In general... the whole 'de-fund the police' thing never made sense to me.
Personally I think policing ... just about everywhere, Canada included should be disseminated, analyzed, and reformed. I want to believe that on a level this is happening in Canada, it just takes time... a long time.
Regarding funding though .... such a tough thing especially in a divisive, polarized community. A few years back, I learned that 55% of my property taxes were going to the local police service. And so with that, I couldn't help but think selfishly if not for a few minutes like "Hmmm... I personally pay (this much)... what do the police do for ME?" And it's an honest question that I imagine a lot of people ask. But when I think unselfishly in terms of what the police can do, are doing, and the help they can provide... I'm more than willing to pay.
But a return on investment for me means that the service is professional and effective.
To have a professional and effective police force does mean funding. Funding for training, equipment, and personnel. In Canada... and this is VERY much personal opinion... the other side of the policing problem is the justice system problem. Being a cop.... is one of the most stressful jobs. For a lot of reasons. Part of that stress I think is dealing with the same crooks and the same problems over and over again. Also... going out of your way to put forth that extra effort and extra work to help a community... only to see a justice system let crooks off with barely a slap on the wrist. That kind of stuff will mentally drain a professional. To put it in perspective.. it's like spending 12 hours meticulously building a house of cards... only to have some asshole ruin it over and over and over again. Eventually... you'll run out of motivation to continue building.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten. Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association. It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage
Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment.
We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."
It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).
In my opinion the problem is funding. We need to have more police, more supervision, training, etc.
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
From what I've read, police in the US are chronically over funded. that money needs to be re-routed to social services at a slow but gradual pace.
Policing is by definition reactionary. More police does literally nothing. More people to respond after an event
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
With respect... not here in Ontario... and most of Canada I think. We have directives known as 'Community Policing' and it's very much pro-active as opposed to reactive. Police engage with people on the streets.. engage in volunteer programs, after school programs, walk public spaces, attend events, school liasons, etc.
We just has an event at my workplace last week for Community Policing. Auxiliary cops and street cops were at a booth open to the public for information, questions etc. and had their K-9 unit here as well to provide information about what they do etc.
One of my trainers many moons ago once spoke about how he would often shake his head when he saw parents attempt to use police as a mechanism for punishment. "Pick up your garbage Johnny, or I'm going to tell that policeman over there." You never want to be afraid of police or have them be seen as the 'Enforcers.' They are for the public to serve the public and WHEN the shit hits the fan... they are the brave humans that will boldly run into a building with a shooter as opposed to out of it. And they should have the skills to match aggression with aggression... but never be the aggressors.
but that's also a good argument for "defunding the police". it's not all about taking money away from police forces; it's moving that money away from enforcement and towards engagement, as you outlined above. I think a lot of the "defund" folks would be more than happy if police training contained, in a large part, society engagement training, much like a social worker.
+1. Reassess.. reallocate.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
I can't imagine the training that would need to take place for these situations. Remember that the majority of work these cops did was likely traffic stops and pulling over drunk drivers. This is an extremely unusual situation.
This should be mandatory training, but who knows what is actually happening. Maybe they became lax during Covid. I can tell you when I was patrol, we spent a few days in actual schools training exactly for these situations every year. Doesn't mean we would have been 100% perfect on a response, but everyone had a base line for what to do. If there wasn't a requirement in Uvalde, there will be now and I'd expect some change in the leadership of that department in a few months.
"Defund" is just so... ...I don't know... ...get a marketing or PR person.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
"Defund" is just so... ...I don't know... ...get a marketing or PR person.
Police modernisation and redeployment of assets to proactively build stronger communities and reduce violence through strategies not involving militarisation isn’t as catchy.
"reform" would have been better, but the back the blue crowd likely would have reacted the same even if the slogan was "please, can we do something about police culture?"
Just label it support the police, but don't tell anyone support is an acronym that stands for reallocating resources in to the community to provide social supports.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.
you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control.
I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…
Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?
Nailed it there Mace. The media depends on creating shock value that the weak minded eat up and crave. Godbless all involved in this tragedy, the real investigation into this matter is just beginning.
Comments
To me it's no different than education. You have to throw money at it to make it better and no one wants to do that.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
95 percent (probably) of all calls don’t require those skills
increasing police spending takes it away from something else. Usually that’s touchy felt stuff like mental health, community outreach, poverty programs. The governor of Texas cut 200 million from mental health programs then blamed the violence on a mental health problem
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/25/fact-sheet-president-biden-to-sign-historic-executive-order-to-advance-effective-accountable-policing-and-strengthen-public-safety/
And I have no idea what was going on inside. We know children were still alive in that room, so he could have been threatening to kill more if they break the door down, I don’t think we know yet.
The videos look bad of families begging cops to go in. But we don’t know what was happening, and I’m betting more likely than not there was a lot more going on than what we are aware of yet.
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1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
prevention requires money too. Money not for the police
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com
stopping that person from doing it in the first place is harder and involves spending money on programs that are less popular
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
We just has an event at my workplace last week for Community Policing. Auxiliary cops and street cops were at a booth open to the public for information, questions etc. and had their K-9 unit here as well to provide information about what they do etc.
One of my trainers many moons ago once spoke about how he would often shake his head when he saw parents attempt to use police as a mechanism for punishment. "Pick up your garbage Johnny, or I'm going to tell that policeman over there." You never want to be afraid of police or have them be seen as the 'Enforcers.' They are for the public to serve the public and WHEN the shit hits the fan... they are the brave humans that will boldly run into a building with a shooter as opposed to out of it. And they should have the skills to match aggression with aggression... but never be the aggressors.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
policing is about stats. Arrests, clearance rates etc. It’s set up to catch criminals after a crime happens.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com
Personally I think policing ... just about everywhere, Canada included should be disseminated, analyzed, and reformed. I want to believe that on a level this is happening in Canada, it just takes time... a long time.
Regarding funding though .... such a tough thing especially in a divisive, polarized community. A few years back, I learned that 55% of my property taxes were going to the local police service. And so with that, I couldn't help but think selfishly if not for a few minutes like "Hmmm... I personally pay (this much)... what do the police do for ME?" And it's an honest question that I imagine a lot of people ask. But when I think unselfishly in terms of what the police can do, are doing, and the help they can provide... I'm more than willing to pay.
But a return on investment for me means that the service is professional and effective.
To have a professional and effective police force does mean funding. Funding for training, equipment, and personnel. In Canada... and this is VERY much personal opinion... the other side of the policing problem is the justice system problem. Being a cop.... is one of the most stressful jobs. For a lot of reasons. Part of that stress I think is dealing with the same crooks and the same problems over and over again. Also... going out of your way to put forth that extra effort and extra work to help a community... only to see a justice system let crooks off with barely a slap on the wrist. That kind of stuff will mentally drain a professional. To put it in perspective.. it's like spending 12 hours meticulously building a house of cards... only to have some asshole ruin it over and over and over again. Eventually... you'll run out of motivation to continue building.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
...I don't know...
...get a marketing or PR person.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."