The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.
you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control.
I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…
Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?
Nailed it there Mace. The media depends on creating shock value that the weak minded eat up and crave. Godbless all involved in this tragedy, the real investigation into this matter is just beginning.
What are you even talking about? Abbott even spewed the bullshit version of events because that's what he was told by LE officials, until they had to walk that back. Unless by media you meant Breitbart and the like.
Also, you sound like a conspiracy theorist with that last sentence. I sure hope you aren't implying this was some staged event.
The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.
you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control.
I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…
Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.
you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control.
I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…
Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?
Nailed it there Mace. The media depends on creating shock value that the weak minded eat up and crave. Godbless all involved in this tragedy, the real investigation into this matter is just beginning.
uh, I suppose the police chief conducting the press conference who said "it was the wrong call" is weak minded and lying?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.
you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control.
I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…
Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?
Nailed it there Mace. The media depends on creating shock value that the weak minded eat up and crave. Godbless all involved in this tragedy, the real investigation into this matter is just beginning.
What are you even talking about? Abbott even spewed the bullshit version of events because that's what he was told by LE officials, until they had to walk that back. Unless by media you meant Breitbart and the like.
Also, you sound like a conspiracy theorist with that last sentence. I sure hope you aren't implying this was some staged event.
i will never stop being entertained by someone who calls the POTUS a "mushbrain" but articulates themselves at a much lower level than he does. lol
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
I've never heard of firemen standing around waiting for someone else to run into the fire to do their job for them.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
I've never heard of firemen standing around waiting for someone else to run into the fire to do their job for them.
Does that mean it never happened? I guess living in a big city with the FDNY and NYPD and knowing a lot of them gives me a different outlook on certain things.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
I've never heard of firemen standing around waiting for someone else to run into the fire to do their job for them.
Does that mean it never happened? I guess living in a big city with the FDNY and NYPD and knowing a lot of them gives me a different outlook on certain things.
in this day and age, I'd imagine we'd hear about it if it did. I've never even seen so much as a false accusation of such, which means, probably, it's never happened.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
why would I be offended that you grew up in Brooklyn? lol
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
why would I be offended that you grew up in Brooklyn? lol
Haha hahahah. True I don’t know why I even typed that.
I’m not trying to be offensive or change any minds here. Just stating my opinion. So no offense for anything I’ve said and no offense that I’m from Brooklyn.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
Well, if we’re being honest, POOTWH gave a huge fuck you to the police on 1/6. No denying that. In fact, he was gleeful when they were being physically assaulted and some nearly beaten to death. Pretty big fuck you to cops.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
Well, if we’re being honest, POOTWH gave a huge fuck you to the police on 1/6. No denying that. In fact, he was gleeful when they were being physically assaulted and some nearly beaten to death. Pretty big fuck you to cops.
Yea I agree with that but he never fully came out and blasted police like some on the far left do
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
why would I be offended that you grew up in Brooklyn? lol
Haha hahahah. True I don’t know why I even typed that.
lol, I know why you typed it. just funny how it came across.
now, to your serious point, I totally agree. winnipeg and NYC aren't comparable. I'm just saying, relatively speaking, any oppressed minority, regardless of city/town/etc, is going to have a certain sentiment towards the police force. In large part, they are treated as more of a nuisance and, worse, mainly criminals, whether that classification is true or not. now, I also can understand where the police are coming from. they are only human, and are going to have their own biases based on experience, and that would be very difficult to be objective about on a case by case basis. when you see the same thing from the same group day in and day out, how could you not be affected by that? but looking at it from the non-cop perspective, it's got to be infuriating. I'm sure there are perfectly good cops that struggle with those biases all the time. But the bad ones don't struggle with it. They act on it. and THOSE are the ones that are the issue.
it is interesting though, when you say you've heard more white people say fuck the police than people of colour. I know you said you grew up amongst all types of people, but would you say all those types were in your usual circle all the time? or just on the fringe, and you mostly hung out with whites? me? I've been exposed to indigenous, but I mostly hung out with white people. there just weren't many minorities in my community (middle class, not upper by any stretch). my two best friends in high school were half indigenous, but they weren't "in the community" if you know what I mean. they were white people with darker complexions, culturally speaking.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
Well, if we’re being honest, POOTWH gave a huge fuck you to the police on 1/6. No denying that. In fact, he was gleeful when they were being physically assaulted and some nearly beaten to death. Pretty big fuck you to cops.
Yea I agree with that but he never fully came out and blasted police like some on the far left do
Actions speak louder than words, particularly as POTUS.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
Well, if we’re being honest, POOTWH gave a huge fuck you to the police on 1/6. No denying that. In fact, he was gleeful when they were being physically assaulted and some nearly beaten to death. Pretty big fuck you to cops.
Yea I agree with that but he never fully came out and blasted police like some on the far left do
he would have had it been politically expedient.
I see it like this: the left sees things as they are. the right sees things as they want them to be. massive generalization? OF COURSE. it wouldn't be AMT without it.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple. That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately.
I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on: The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves. It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress. But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are.
Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now. Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news. Call them out. And do it now. Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives.
The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE. Active shooter = go... no matter what. To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun.
We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.
you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control.
I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…
Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
I can say it freely so you are right. They really can’t unless they want to get arrested for something else.
I’ve never ever seen minorities being confrontational with police, I see white people doing it occasionally. I’m talking real life, not what I see on TV
That speaks more to white privilege than the overriding sentiment of police among minority communities
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
I can say it freely so you are right. They really can’t unless they want to get arrested for something else.
I’ve never ever seen minorities being confrontational with police, I see white people doing it occasionally. I’m talking real life, not what I see on TV
That speaks more to white privilege than the overriding sentiment of police among minority communities
Nothing more privileged than white people who live in gated communities telling minorities they need less police.
has there ever been a song called "fuck the fire department"? if not, they must be doing something right. better than the police anyway.
What? The fire department don’t go after criminals. Pretty sure the gentleman who made that song had a shady lifestyle. I think only “fire” would say fuck the fire department. I get it. You hate cops. But this is a reach.
i don't hate cops. i hate people who do not do their job when called upon to do so. i hate "good guys with guns" who do not do what they are trained to do. have you heard the summaries of the calls to 911 from the children inside that school? the kids were begging the dispatchers to send the police now.
the fire department runs into dangerous situations to save people every day. that is much more than i can say for the cops who stood by and left kids in that school with the gunman.
Ok. It’s just when someone makes donut jokes multiple times it adds to the idea that they just hate cops. Comparing firemen to cops is apples to oranges. And saying there’s no song called “fuck the fireman” is a huge reach to make your point. But yea. Fuck the police. Until you’re in trouble. Fuck these guys? Yea. But you don’t hear about every time an officer saves a life because they’re just doing their job and it’s not newsworthy. I just don’t get the fuck the police stance. Unless you’re a criminal. Then I get it. If I had to I’d choose being a fireman over a cop 100% of the time. More money, less variables, no “anti fireman” rhetoric to deal with, not dealing with the absolute worst society has to offer every day, and tons of time to do side work and make even more money.
so are we now supposed to praise government employees for doing what they are supposed to do? doing what their job is?
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
You hate cops. It’s all good. I don’t understand the fuck the police. I never defended these cops or any of the other cops you mentioned. They’re pieces of shit. Do you demand perfection in any other profession? There’s garbage people in every profession. A cop should be held accountable like anyone else. But fuck the police? No. Sorry. You say fuck the teachers because every now and then one molests a minor? I feel differently and there’s nothing wrong with us disagreeing. Unfortunately like everything else in this country police have become political and I think that has a lot to do with it. If trump said fuck the police, there would be a different reaction from some folks.
talk to some minorities. there's not many black folk up here in winnipeg, but I know the indigenous population holds the same view.
No offense but I grew up in Brooklyn around all kinds of people. I’ve heard more privilege upper class white people say fuck the police than people of color. You can’t compare Winnipeg to NYC. Two completely different perspectives.
I can say it freely so you are right. They really can’t unless they want to get arrested for something else.
I’ve never ever seen minorities being confrontational with police, I see white people doing it occasionally. I’m talking real life, not what I see on TV
That speaks more to white privilege than the overriding sentiment of police among minority communities
Nothing more privileged than white people who live in gated communities telling minorities they need less police.
I live in the middle of a major city. No gates here.
Policing in a lot of minority /and or low income areas operate under the assumption everyone is guilty far too often.
Police aren’t around quite as much in my neighbourhood as other areas though. Fact is there is a lot of “crime” here that isn’t policed at all. If the cops were as aggressive as they are in other areas they would find a lot of stuff… Ie pulling people over for taillights and executing searches based on really weak PC. The more aggressively you police the more crime you find. So many things police find aren’t even from the actual crime that they are using for justification to begin with. They stop you for x hoping to find y. I’ve never heard of a police stop for jaywalking on my street and I do it every day. Other areas, it’s absolutely used to then look for drugs. I’m committing the same crime as the other guy. Loitering is another one. That’s the stuff extra policing goes after
Still remember driving from Houston to Corpus one night after work. Got pulled over in a small town in the middle of the night and the cop flat out said my “out of state plates” were the reason for the stop as I appeared to not be from around here. He probably assumed I wasn’t a white guy. Asked to search my vehicle anyway. I said sure, as soon as you wake up a judge and get a warrant. Didn’t have anything to hide but I’m not about to cooperate with their fishing expeditions. Something tells me if I wasn’t white it wouldn’t have gone down that way.
For the record, I’m not anti-cop. I recognize the need for effective policing in our country and make annual donations to local police charities…. With that being said, significant reform is needed.
Kansas City struggles with Missouri over police funding
By MARGARET STAFFORD and SUMMER BALLENTINE
Today
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — Leaders in largely Democratic Kansas City, Missouri, don’t control the city’s police department, hire the police chief or determine how the department spends its tax dollars. A 1930s-era law gives that power to a five-member board largely appointed by the Missouri governor, who since 2017 has been a Republican.
A longstanding dispute over that arrangement is erupting this summer. The two sides are preparing for a statewide vote in November on a constitutional amendment that would give the Republican-majority Legislature even more authority to set police funding.
A key legislative backer says Kansas City police need the support because some Democrats want to defund the force — a charge city leaders vehemently deny.
A local civil rights leader sued on behalf of city taxpayers, arguing that allowing the state to control the city’s police force amounts to “taxation without representation” and discriminates against Kansas City's large Black population, which experiences much of its violent crime.
The debate echoes recent confrontations between Republican state officials and Democratic leaders of larger cities elsewhere over issues including voting rights, mask mandates and recognition of the Juneteenth holiday. And it comes as the nation continues to wrestle with racial injustice in policing.
Last year, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas and Gov. Brian Kemp of Georgia signed restrictive election laws that opponents claimed targeted Democratic strongholds. And school boards in largely Democratic areas defied governors in Florida, Texas and Arizona who sought to ban mask mandates during the height of the pandemic.
Kansas City, with a population of about 508,000, about 28% Black, is the only Missouri city without local control of its police force. It’s believed to be the largest city in the U.S. in that situation, the mayor’s office said.
After racial injustice protests in 2020 sparked calls for more police accountability, Lucas and some City Council members passed two ordinances that would have given city officials some control over how $42.5 million of the police department’s $239 million budget for 2021-2022 fiscal year would be spent. The money would have been used to emphasize social service and crime prevention programs.
Critics, including the police union and former police chief, said the proposal was a roundabout way of defunding the department and would leave it with insufficient money to make it through the year.
Shortly after the ordinances passed, the state-appointed police board sued the city to undo them and won. The judge said state law gives the board exclusive authority over the police budget.
The fight prompted legislators to pass a bill requiring the city to increase police funding from 20% of its general revenue budget to 25%. Republican Gov. Mike Parson signed the bill June 27.
But there was concern the move would run afoul of a state constitutional ban on unfunded state mandates for cities. So lawmakers put an amendment to address that on the November general election ballot.
Lucas tweeted that “the bill represents the raw exercise of power by state lawmakers over the people of Kansas City,” and would be challenged in court. He and other officials have noted the city already routinely funds the police department above the 20% requirement.
State Sen. Tony Luetkemeyer, a Republican who represents counties in suburban Kansas City, said he sponsored the legislation to stand with law enforcement during a time of “radical attempts across the country by city councils to defund the police.”
Melissa Robinson, a Democratic Kansas City Council member, said the current arrangement disenfranchises Kansas City taxpayers by allowing outsiders to decide how their tax dollars are spent.
She said supporters are strategizing how to persuade residents outside the city that the issue on the November ballot is centered on local control, a principle frequently lauded by Republicans.
“This is not about divisive conversations about blue lives and Black lives,” she said. “It’s the basic question of how government should work ... We never said we wanted to decrease funding, we just wanted to separate out some money and ask questions about better ways to address crime.”
Luetkemeyer said all Missourians should care about how the Kansas City police department operates because the city is one of the main economic drivers in the state.
“If Kansas City sees a dramatic increase in crime because police are defunded, that’s going to have a ripple effect across the entire economy in the state of Missouri,” he said.
According to police department crime statistics, reports of the most serious crimes, such as homicides, sex assaults, robbery, fraud and weapons violations decreased 6% from 2020 to 2021.
Homicides in the city have fluctuated between 151 in 2017 to 157 in 2021, with a high of 179 in 2020. The statistics show 78% of homicide victims in the city in 2021 were Black men and women.
Gwen Grant, president and CEO of the Urban League of Greater Kansas City and the civil rights leader who filed a lawsuit over the funding issue, said the current arrangement is steeped in racism.
During the Civil War, Missouri was sharply divided between Union and Confederate supporters, with much of the Union support centered in St. Louis and Kansas City, which had larger Black populations than elsewhere in the state.
In 1861, Missouri Gov. Claiborne Fox Jackson, who supported the Confederacy, persuaded the Legislature to pass a law giving the state control over the police department in St. Louis. Missouri voters in 2013 approved a constitutional amendment returning that department to local control.
The state took over the new Kansas City Police Department in 1874. That changed in 1932, when the Missouri Supreme Court ruled the appointed board’s control of the agency was unconstitutional.
But the state took back control in 1939 at the urging of another segregationist governor, Lloyd Crow Stark, in part because of corruption under highly influential political organizer Tom Pendergast. In 1943, a new law limited the amount a city could be required to appropriate to a police board to 20% of its general revenue in any fiscal year.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Lawsuit: Chicago police misused ShotSpotter in murder case
by GARANCE BURKE AND MICHAEL TARM
Yesterday
CHICAGO (AP) — A federal lawsuit filed Thursday alleges Chicago police misused “unreliable” gunshot detection technology and failed to pursue other leads in investigating a grandfather from the city’s South Side who was charged with killing a neighbor.
Chicago prosecutors used audio picked up by a network of sensors installed by the gunshot detection company ShotSpotter as critical evidence in charging Michael Williams with murder in 2020 for allegedly shooting the man inside his car. Williams spent nearly a year in jail, and The Associated Press reported last year that a judge dismissed his case at the request of prosecutors, who said they had insufficient evidence.
The lawsuit filed by the MacArthur Justice Center at Northwestern University’s law school seeks damages from the city for mental anguish, loss of income and legal bills for the 65-year-old Williams, who said he still suffers from a tremor in his hand that developed while he was locked up. It also details the case of a second plaintiff Daniel Ortiz, a 36-year-old father who the lawsuit alleges was arbitrarily arrested and jailed by police who were responding to a ShotSpotter alert.
The suit seeks class-action status for any Chicago resident who was stopped on the basis of the alerts. It also seeks a court order barring the technology’s use in the nation’s third-largest city.
“Even though now I’m so-called free, I don’t think I will ever be free of the thought of what they have done and the impact that has on me now, like the shaking with my hand,” Williams said. “I constantly go back to the thought of being in that place. ... I just can’t get my mind to settle down.”
ShotSpotter isn’t named as a defendant in the 103-page filing though the lawsuit claims the company’s algorithm-powered technology is flawed. The suit also alleges the city’s decision to place most of its gunshot-detection sensors in predominantly Black and Latino neighborhoods is racially discriminatory.
Asked for a comment, the city's law department, which represents police in such cases, said later Thursday that it had not yet been served with the complaint.
Chicago police have previously praised the ShotSpotter system, saying it puts officers on the scene of shootings far faster than if they wait for someone to call 911. Police have also said crime rates — not residents’ race — determine where the technology is deployed.
ShotSpotter said in a statement that the evidence it collects and its expert witnesses have been admitted in 200 court cases in 20 states, and have survived dozens of evidentiary challenges.
It described its system as “highly accurate with a 97% aggregate accuracy rate for real-time detections across all customers” and that an analytics company had verified the effectiveness of the technology.
ShotSpotter’s website says the company is “a leader in precision policing technology solutions” that help stop gun violence by using sensors, algorithms and artificial intelligence to classify 14 million sounds in its proprietary database as gunshots or something else.
But the AP investigation identified a number of flaws in using ShotSpotter as evidentiary support for prosecutors, and found the system can miss live gunfire right under its microphones, or misclassify the sounds of fireworks or cars backfiring as gunshots. Last year, Chicago’s nonpartisan watchdog agency concluded that actual evidence of a gun-related crime was found in about 9% of ShotSpotter alerts that were confirmed as probable gunshots.
The lawsuit says the investigating officers “put blind faith in ShotSpotter evidence they knew or should have known was unreliable” in order to charge Williams with killing 25-year-old Safarian Herring. The lawsuit alleges investigators used ShotSpotter material in a way that went beyond its intended use, quoting a disclaimer in one document related to Williams’ case that says the investigative lead summary “should only be used for initial investigative purposes.”
The suit also accuses investigators of not pursuing other leads that could have produced credible suspects, including reports that someone previously shot at Herring at a bus stop.
Police and prosecutors never established a motive for Williams to have shot Herring, never found witnesses to the shooting, and never recovered a weapon or physical evidence tying Williams to the killing, the suit alleges.
“The Defendant Officers engaged in tunnel vision to target Mr. Williams, arresting him for First-Degree murder, without probable cause,” the lawsuit said.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Also, you sound like a conspiracy theorist with that last sentence. I sure hope you aren't implying this was some staged event.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
you do not get the "fuck the police" stance? where have you been the last 5 years with cops always killing unarmed black men? have you not been in the george floyd thread? have you not been reading about the racist cops and police culture over the years? what about how the thin blue line protects dirty cops? come on, man.
we all do our jobs every day without a thank you. we do our jobs every day without a pat on the back. and we do not expect one. you know why? because we do our job that we signed up to do. these cops here not only did not go in that building to engage the shooter, but they kept others from going in since the police would not act. they roughed up and detained parents for trying to save their kids. they did not go in when kids were calling 911 from inside the classroom begging for the dispatcher to send in the cops right away. they told feds to stay out of the building. the cops that did go in went in to find their own kids and left when they found them. i will not praise these guys. i will not thank them. because they did not even do the bare minimum of what is expected of them. then the department and the governor lied about it. they are now admitting they made mistakes because the timeline does not add up. they failed, and then they lied about it. they should be held accountable.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
now, to your serious point, I totally agree. winnipeg and NYC aren't comparable. I'm just saying, relatively speaking, any oppressed minority, regardless of city/town/etc, is going to have a certain sentiment towards the police force. In large part, they are treated as more of a nuisance and, worse, mainly criminals, whether that classification is true or not. now, I also can understand where the police are coming from. they are only human, and are going to have their own biases based on experience, and that would be very difficult to be objective about on a case by case basis. when you see the same thing from the same group day in and day out, how could you not be affected by that? but looking at it from the non-cop perspective, it's got to be infuriating. I'm sure there are perfectly good cops that struggle with those biases all the time. But the bad ones don't struggle with it. They act on it. and THOSE are the ones that are the issue.
it is interesting though, when you say you've heard more white people say fuck the police than people of colour. I know you said you grew up amongst all types of people, but would you say all those types were in your usual circle all the time? or just on the fringe, and you mostly hung out with whites? me? I've been exposed to indigenous, but I mostly hung out with white people. there just weren't many minorities in my community (middle class, not upper by any stretch). my two best friends in high school were half indigenous, but they weren't "in the community" if you know what I mean. they were white people with darker complexions, culturally speaking.
-EV 8/14/93
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I see it like this: the left sees things as they are. the right sees things as they want them to be. massive generalization? OF COURSE. it wouldn't be AMT without it.
-EV 8/14/93
@mace1229
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Active shooter = go in. No hesitation.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
I’ve never ever seen minorities being confrontational with police, I see white people doing it occasionally. I’m talking real life, not what I see on TV
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — Leaders in largely Democratic Kansas City, Missouri, don’t control the city’s police department, hire the police chief or determine how the department spends its tax dollars. A 1930s-era law gives that power to a five-member board largely appointed by the Missouri governor, who since 2017 has been a Republican.
A longstanding dispute over that arrangement is erupting this summer. The two sides are preparing for a statewide vote in November on a constitutional amendment that would give the Republican-majority Legislature even more authority to set police funding.
A key legislative backer says Kansas City police need the support because some Democrats want to defund the force — a charge city leaders vehemently deny.
A local civil rights leader sued on behalf of city taxpayers, arguing that allowing the state to control the city’s police force amounts to “taxation without representation” and discriminates against Kansas City's large Black population, which experiences much of its violent crime.
Mayor Quinton Lucas, who is the only person on the Board of Police Commissioners not appointed by the governor, has indicated the proposal will be challenged in court.
The debate echoes recent confrontations between Republican state officials and Democratic leaders of larger cities elsewhere over issues including voting rights, mask mandates and recognition of the Juneteenth holiday. And it comes as the nation continues to wrestle with racial injustice in policing.
Last year, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas and Gov. Brian Kemp of Georgia signed restrictive election laws that opponents claimed targeted Democratic strongholds. And school boards in largely Democratic areas defied governors in Florida, Texas and Arizona who sought to ban mask mandates during the height of the pandemic.
Kansas City, with a population of about 508,000, about 28% Black, is the only Missouri city without local control of its police force. It’s believed to be the largest city in the U.S. in that situation, the mayor’s office said.
After racial injustice protests in 2020 sparked calls for more police accountability, Lucas and some City Council members passed two ordinances that would have given city officials some control over how $42.5 million of the police department’s $239 million budget for 2021-2022 fiscal year would be spent. The money would have been used to emphasize social service and crime prevention programs.
Critics, including the police union and former police chief, said the proposal was a roundabout way of defunding the department and would leave it with insufficient money to make it through the year.
Shortly after the ordinances passed, the state-appointed police board sued the city to undo them and won. The judge said state law gives the board exclusive authority over the police budget.
The fight prompted legislators to pass a bill requiring the city to increase police funding from 20% of its general revenue budget to 25%. Republican Gov. Mike Parson signed the bill June 27.
But there was concern the move would run afoul of a state constitutional ban on unfunded state mandates for cities. So lawmakers put an amendment to address that on the November general election ballot.
Lucas tweeted that “the bill represents the raw exercise of power by state lawmakers over the people of Kansas City,” and would be challenged in court. He and other officials have noted the city already routinely funds the police department above the 20% requirement.
State Sen. Tony Luetkemeyer, a Republican who represents counties in suburban Kansas City, said he sponsored the legislation to stand with law enforcement during a time of “radical attempts across the country by city councils to defund the police.”
Melissa Robinson, a Democratic Kansas City Council member, said the current arrangement disenfranchises Kansas City taxpayers by allowing outsiders to decide how their tax dollars are spent.
She said supporters are strategizing how to persuade residents outside the city that the issue on the November ballot is centered on local control, a principle frequently lauded by Republicans.
“This is not about divisive conversations about blue lives and Black lives,” she said. “It’s the basic question of how government should work ... We never said we wanted to decrease funding, we just wanted to separate out some money and ask questions about better ways to address crime.”
Luetkemeyer said all Missourians should care about how the Kansas City police department operates because the city is one of the main economic drivers in the state.
“If Kansas City sees a dramatic increase in crime because police are defunded, that’s going to have a ripple effect across the entire economy in the state of Missouri,” he said.
According to police department crime statistics, reports of the most serious crimes, such as homicides, sex assaults, robbery, fraud and weapons violations decreased 6% from 2020 to 2021.
Homicides in the city have fluctuated between 151 in 2017 to 157 in 2021, with a high of 179 in 2020. The statistics show 78% of homicide victims in the city in 2021 were Black men and women.
Gwen Grant, president and CEO of the Urban League of Greater Kansas City and the civil rights leader who filed a lawsuit over the funding issue, said the current arrangement is steeped in racism.
During the Civil War, Missouri was sharply divided between Union and Confederate supporters, with much of the Union support centered in St. Louis and Kansas City, which had larger Black populations than elsewhere in the state.
In 1861, Missouri Gov. Claiborne Fox Jackson, who supported the Confederacy, persuaded the Legislature to pass a law giving the state control over the police department in St. Louis. Missouri voters in 2013 approved a constitutional amendment returning that department to local control.
The state took over the new Kansas City Police Department in 1874. That changed in 1932, when the Missouri Supreme Court ruled the appointed board’s control of the agency was unconstitutional.
But the state took back control in 1939 at the urging of another segregationist governor, Lloyd Crow Stark, in part because of corruption under highly influential political organizer Tom Pendergast. In 1943, a new law limited the amount a city could be required to appropriate to a police board to 20% of its general revenue in any fiscal year.
continues....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
CHICAGO (AP) — A federal lawsuit filed Thursday alleges Chicago police misused “unreliable” gunshot detection technology and failed to pursue other leads in investigating a grandfather from the city’s South Side who was charged with killing a neighbor.
Chicago prosecutors used audio picked up by a network of sensors installed by the gunshot detection company ShotSpotter as critical evidence in charging Michael Williams with murder in 2020 for allegedly shooting the man inside his car. Williams spent nearly a year in jail, and The Associated Press reported last year that a judge dismissed his case at the request of prosecutors, who said they had insufficient evidence.
The lawsuit filed by the MacArthur Justice Center at Northwestern University’s law school seeks damages from the city for mental anguish, loss of income and legal bills for the 65-year-old Williams, who said he still suffers from a tremor in his hand that developed while he was locked up. It also details the case of a second plaintiff Daniel Ortiz, a 36-year-old father who the lawsuit alleges was arbitrarily arrested and jailed by police who were responding to a ShotSpotter alert.
The suit seeks class-action status for any Chicago resident who was stopped on the basis of the alerts. It also seeks a court order barring the technology’s use in the nation’s third-largest city.
“Even though now I’m so-called free, I don’t think I will ever be free of the thought of what they have done and the impact that has on me now, like the shaking with my hand,” Williams said. “I constantly go back to the thought of being in that place. ... I just can’t get my mind to settle down.”
ShotSpotter isn’t named as a defendant in the 103-page filing though the lawsuit claims the company’s algorithm-powered technology is flawed. The suit also alleges the city’s decision to place most of its gunshot-detection sensors in predominantly Black and Latino neighborhoods is racially discriminatory.
Asked for a comment, the city's law department, which represents police in such cases, said later Thursday that it had not yet been served with the complaint.
Chicago police have previously praised the ShotSpotter system, saying it puts officers on the scene of shootings far faster than if they wait for someone to call 911. Police have also said crime rates — not residents’ race — determine where the technology is deployed.
ShotSpotter said in a statement that the evidence it collects and its expert witnesses have been admitted in 200 court cases in 20 states, and have survived dozens of evidentiary challenges.
It described its system as “highly accurate with a 97% aggregate accuracy rate for real-time detections across all customers” and that an analytics company had verified the effectiveness of the technology.
ShotSpotter’s website says the company is “a leader in precision policing technology solutions” that help stop gun violence by using sensors, algorithms and artificial intelligence to classify 14 million sounds in its proprietary database as gunshots or something else.
But the AP investigation identified a number of flaws in using ShotSpotter as evidentiary support for prosecutors, and found the system can miss live gunfire right under its microphones, or misclassify the sounds of fireworks or cars backfiring as gunshots. Last year, Chicago’s nonpartisan watchdog agency concluded that actual evidence of a gun-related crime was found in about 9% of ShotSpotter alerts that were confirmed as probable gunshots.
The lawsuit says the investigating officers “put blind faith in ShotSpotter evidence they knew or should have known was unreliable” in order to charge Williams with killing 25-year-old Safarian Herring. The lawsuit alleges investigators used ShotSpotter material in a way that went beyond its intended use, quoting a disclaimer in one document related to Williams’ case that says the investigative lead summary “should only be used for initial investigative purposes.”
The suit also accuses investigators of not pursuing other leads that could have produced credible suspects, including reports that someone previously shot at Herring at a bus stop.
Police and prosecutors never established a motive for Williams to have shot Herring, never found witnesses to the shooting, and never recovered a weapon or physical evidence tying Williams to the killing, the suit alleges.
“The Defendant Officers engaged in tunnel vision to target Mr. Williams, arresting him for First-Degree murder, without probable cause,” the lawsuit said.
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Burke reported from San Francisco.
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Follow Garance Burke and Michael Tarm on Twitter at @garanceburke and @mtarm. Contact AP’s global investigative team at Investigative@ap.org or https://www.ap.org/tips/
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