Police Reform (Please Don’t Call It Defund)

Halifax2TheMax

They should also make them wear a white cowboy hat and a badge along with the pistol strapped to their hip. Those things make you tough. 

OnWis97

Amazing…a solution from politicians that get a lot of NRA a money results in the need to purchase a lot of guns.

Cropduster-80

OnWis97 said:

Amazing…a solution from politicians that get a lot of NRA a money results in the need to purchase a lot of guns.

its evil genius type stuff.  

Once you own a gun you are less likely to give it up. I’m not aware of many ex gun owners 

getting people who would not normally own a gun to own one is pretty calculating.  It’s not about safety at all,  it’s about guns 

Parksy

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

Cropduster-80

^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten.  Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association.  It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage 

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

Gern Blansten

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-thursday/index.html

Officers arrived at the school at 11:44 a.m., but when they went to confront the gunman, they received fire and took cover, Escalon said. Three law enforcement officers went in the same door the shooter used to enter the school and four went through another school entrance, DPS spokesperson Chris Olivarez told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

Officers called for more resources and personnel, evacuated students and teachers in other parts of the school, and at some point entered "negotiations" with the suspect, Escalon said. After about an hour, a US Border Patrol tactical team came to the classroom, forced entry and fatally shot the suspect, he said.

Olivarez said officers saved lives despite waiting before physically confronting the suspect.

"At that point, they had the suspect contained inside the classroom," he told CNN. "If those officers weren't there, if they did not maintain their presence, there is a good chance that gunman could have made it to other classrooms and commit more killings."

The news conference underscored the confusion and disorganization of the police response and failed to answer questions as to how the gunman was able to remain inside the classroom for such a long time.

Uvalde Police Chief Daniel Rodriguez issued a statement Thursday defending his officers' response to the shooting. Two responding officers were shot by the suspect but are expected to survive.

"It is important for our community to know that our officers responded within minutes" alongside school resource officers, he said.

Olivarez said Thursday morning the suspect had barricaded himself in the classroom, which was attached to an adjoining room. All of the 21 killed and 17 injured were inside those classrooms, officials have said.

"We're still trying to establish if that classroom was locked, and if it was locked, was there some type of barricade, was there some type of locking mechanism that did not allow those officers to make entry," he said.

Since the Columbine school shooting of 1999, emergency responder protocol in such situations is to end the threat as quickly as possible because fatalities occur in seconds to minutes.

"It's almost incomprehensible for me to come up with a rational explanation as to why you would wait 30 minutes to an hour to get in there," Andrew McCabe, CNN senior law enforcement analyst, said before the news conference. "The door breaching, if it's just a locked door, that doesn't take 30 minutes to get into."

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

It's a tough spot. And we just can't blame the police for not being experienced with those situations. It's not smart to go running into a situation (especially a school with it's maze of rooms/hallways/stairways/restrooms, etc) without having some idea as to what is going on.

If the CNN article is right it seems to me that they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Hobbes

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

Cropduster-80

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

Why is it that once they settle on what the story even is, then that’s the story that’s the official one?  

Eyewitnesses are unreliable etc.  no matter what happens a final account will go to great lengths to paint them in the most favourable light possible. That’s not to say it won’t note problems, but those are just the problems they can’t reasonably explain away 

it’s not like the police don’t already have a reputation for protecting each other. Why would this or anything else be different?

HughFreakingDillon

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

I haven't read all the changes/amendments. All I've read is that it has changed. However, I will say that in chaotic situations like this, often there's a lot of misinformation purple-monkey-dishwasher type shit floating around until the dust settles. 

Cropduster-80

HughFreakingDillon said:

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

I haven't read all the changes/amendments. All I've read is that it has changed. However, I will say that in chaotic situations like this, often there's a lot of misinformation purple-monkey-dishwasher type shit floating around until the dust settles. 

Police engaging before he entered to police didn’t engage until after he entered is a big change.

you either shot at him outside or you didn’t. Why that’s hard to figure out is beyond me unless you are trying to make the police response look better than it was only to revise it when that story doesn’t stick 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

I haven't read all the changes/amendments. All I've read is that it has changed. However, I will say that in chaotic situations like this, often there's a lot of misinformation purple-monkey-dishwasher type shit floating around until the dust settles. 

yeah if the first reports are shit than really nothing has changed....

I just heard a report that the majority of shots came as soon as he entered the building. People are acting like the cops stood around outside while he walked freely shooting people. That doesn't seem to be the case. They entered the building pretty quickly and isolated him. But yeah....nothing solid yet

tempo_n_groove

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

I believe Congress has asked for a thorough FBI investigation.  I would like to see them get it.

HughFreakingDillon

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

I haven't read all the changes/amendments. All I've read is that it has changed. However, I will say that in chaotic situations like this, often there's a lot of misinformation purple-monkey-dishwasher type shit floating around until the dust settles. 

Police engaging before he entered to police didn’t engage until after he entered is a big change.

you either shot at him outside or you didn’t. Why that’s hard to figure out is beyond me unless you are trying to make the police response look better than it was only to revise it when that story doesn’t stick 

like I said, I haven't read all the story changes, but I thought it was maintained from the get go that they engaged him outside, but that they didn't follow him in?

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

I can't imagine the training that would need to take place for these situations. Remember that the majority of work these cops did was likely traffic stops and pulling over drunk drivers. This is an extremely unusual situation. 

Parksy

Shooter arrived at 11:40AM and was shot dead at 12:45PM.  That's over an hour.  There is no negotiation. There is no assessment. He has already shot and killed people. 

If this was a hostage situation... that's different. This was an active shooter situation.  These cops were not trained to do their jobs properly. 

School tweeted about an active shooter at like 1:17PM.  Everything about this stinks. 

An official is already on record as saying that there was a worry cops would be shot. Well no shit sherlock. 

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

It's a tough spot. And we just can't blame the police for not being experienced with those situations. It's not smart to go running into a situation (especially a school with it's maze of rooms/hallways/stairways/restrooms, etc) without having some idea as to what is going on.

If the CNN article is right it seems to me that they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Sorry to say this.. .cause you're a beauty...  but it's only a 'tough spot' for us civilians.  Not police. 

This is what they're trained for. I have done this training with cops.  At a school. In Canada. With mock drills... mock students. Mock gunman.  This is the book on these situations. Active shooter... you go in, you find, you kill. 

"How can you tell who the gunman is?"  They train for this.
"What about multiple shooters?"  They train for this. 
"Couldn't they mistake a student for the shooter?"  They train for this.  

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Shooter arrived at 11:40AM and was shot dead at 12:45PM.  That's over an hour.  There is no negotiation. There is no assessment. He has already shot and killed people. 

If this was a hostage situation... that's different. This was an active shooter situation.  These cops were not trained to do their jobs properly. 

School tweeted about an active shooter at like 1:17PM.  Everything about this stinks. 

An official is already on record as saying that there was a worry cops would be shot. Well no shit sherlock. 

so you are ignoring the CNN article I posted? Cops entered the school at 1144 and isolated him 

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Shooter arrived at 11:40AM and was shot dead at 12:45PM.  That's over an hour.  There is no negotiation. There is no assessment. He has already shot and killed people. 

If this was a hostage situation... that's different. This was an active shooter situation.  These cops were not trained to do their jobs properly. 

School tweeted about an active shooter at like 1:17PM.  Everything about this stinks. 

An official is already on record as saying that there was a worry cops would be shot. Well no shit sherlock. 

so you are ignoring the CNN article I posted? Cops entered the school at 1144 and isolated him 

They're not supposed to isolate him. They're not supposed to wait. There is no 'wait for backup' in these situations. 

The threat needs to go.  Full stop.  Apart from the fact that they gave the psycho more time to kill... they also prevented EMS from potentially saving kids.  

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

It's a tough spot. And we just can't blame the police for not being experienced with those situations. It's not smart to go running into a situation (especially a school with it's maze of rooms/hallways/stairways/restrooms, etc) without having some idea as to what is going on.

If the CNN article is right it seems to me that they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Sorry to say this.. .cause you're a beauty...  but it's only a 'tough spot' for us civilians.  Not police. 

This is what they're trained for. I have done this training with cops.  At a school. In Canada. With mock drills... mock students. Mock gunman.  This is the book on these situations. Active shooter... you go in, you find, you kill. 

"How can you tell who the gunman is?"  They train for this.
"What about multiple shooters?"  They train for this. 
"Couldn't they mistake a student for the shooter?"  They train for this.  

I get it. But we all know that training probably happens once a year. Or maybe just after a shooting like this. 

In a perfect world they storm in immediately, several die from gunshots and the shooter gets taken out. But if the shooter had already killed the students and was isolated we just add to the body count.

We don't have all of the information yet. I will be outraged as hell if that info says I should be.

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

It's a tough spot. And we just can't blame the police for not being experienced with those situations. It's not smart to go running into a situation (especially a school with it's maze of rooms/hallways/stairways/restrooms, etc) without having some idea as to what is going on.

If the CNN article is right it seems to me that they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Sorry to say this.. .cause you're a beauty...  but it's only a 'tough spot' for us civilians.  Not police. 

This is what they're trained for. I have done this training with cops.  At a school. In Canada. With mock drills... mock students. Mock gunman.  This is the book on these situations. Active shooter... you go in, you find, you kill. 

"How can you tell who the gunman is?"  They train for this.
"What about multiple shooters?"  They train for this. 
"Couldn't they mistake a student for the shooter?"  They train for this.  

I get it. But we all know that training probably happens once a year. Or maybe just after a shooting like this. 

In a perfect world they storm in immediately, several die from gunshots and the shooter gets taken out. But if the shooter had already killed the students and was isolated we just add to the body count.

We don't have all of the information yet. I will be outraged as hell if that info says I should be.

My cousin is a retired SGT in Arizona.  I went to a gun range with him and I couldn't hit the backside of a barn from 25 feet. 

He sent the paper target out 100 feet. And within one second put one in the middle of the forehead and one in the middle of the chest. One second.  My mind was absolutely blown.  I looked at him like "How the fuck?"   He said: "If a single member of my unit can't do what I just did  right here and now.. they can't be cops."  

Stuff like this shouldn't be subject to opinion and "if"... this is life and death.  They NEED to be prepared. None of what I'm saying about active shooters is opinion.  That's the textbook... and it sounds like they weren't following it....  unless for whatever reason they just 'do shit differently in Texas'     It should never take kids dying to change that mentality. 

Parksy

Ask yourself if an EMT is out there driving around in an Ambulance without knowing how to attend to a gunshot victim. Sure, it may not happen often (In Canada) ... but that is simply not an option or a liability that anyone wants to take on.

HughFreakingDillon

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

It's a tough spot. And we just can't blame the police for not being experienced with those situations. It's not smart to go running into a situation (especially a school with it's maze of rooms/hallways/stairways/restrooms, etc) without having some idea as to what is going on.

If the CNN article is right it seems to me that they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Sorry to say this.. .cause you're a beauty...  but it's only a 'tough spot' for us civilians.  Not police. 

This is what they're trained for. I have done this training with cops.  At a school. In Canada. With mock drills... mock students. Mock gunman.  This is the book on these situations. Active shooter... you go in, you find, you kill. 

"How can you tell who the gunman is?"  They train for this.
"What about multiple shooters?"  They train for this. 
"Couldn't they mistake a student for the shooter?"  They train for this.  

I get it. But we all know that training probably happens once a year. Or maybe just after a shooting like this. 

In a perfect world they storm in immediately, several die from gunshots and the shooter gets taken out. But if the shooter had already killed the students and was isolated we just add to the body count.

We don't have all of the information yet. I will be outraged as hell if that info says I should be.

My cousin is a retired SGT in Arizona.  I went to a gun range with him and I couldn't hit the backside of a barn from 25 feet. 

He sent the paper target out 100 feet. And within one second put one in the middle of the forehead and one in the middle of the chest. One second.  My mind was absolutely blown.  I looked at him like "How the fuck?"   He said: "If a single member of my unit can't do what I just did  right here and now.. they can't be cops."  

Stuff like this shouldn't be subject to opinion and "if"... this is life and death.  They NEED to be prepared. None of what I'm saying about active shooters is opinion.  That's the textbook... and it sounds like they weren't following it....  unless for whatever reason they just 'do shit differently in Texas'     It should never take kids dying to change that mentality. 

I get what you're saying here about your cousin, but that's also in a controlled setting with ZERO pressure. go from zero pressure to life and death, that changes things significantly. 

mace1229

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

The 'cops' in Uvalde are cowards... plain and simple.  That's not to say all cops are. This is honestly the first I've ever heard of a situation like this where the cops don't engage immediately. 

I will say this.. and this will something to keep an eye on:  The problem with cops and the thin blue line, or the blue brotherhood, or the blue lives matter crowd is that they all protect themselves.  It's an unwritten rule that cops help cops and that cops don't rat other cops out. That's just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. There are a lot of excellent cops out there and they need credit for not only being brave but for putting up with a lot of shit and stress.  But this is an opportunity to show just how brave you are. 

Police across your country need to condemn this and call for all of their badges.. now.  Don't let it be the people protesting outside the station... call out your own. Don't ignore social media... don't ignore the news.  Call them out. And do it now.  Their negligence, cowardice, and laziness cost children's lives. 

The personal safety of an officer takes precedence in ALMOST every scenario .. EXCEPT THIS ONE.  Active shooter = go... no matter what.  To me that's the MOST important reason you cops have a gun. 

We don't know the whole story yet. There were several officers that entered the school soon after the shooting started. All of the facts are not in a usable format yet. A lot of people are focusing on video of officers keeping parents back....there were tons of officers there...not just those few.

you're right. I'll reserve further outrage for more information. But I will say...it sounds like there is a cover up happening with changing of stories and facts etc. Seems like massive damage control. 

I wonder how the police would treat a suspect who changed their story this many times. Hmm…

Did the police change their story? Or was it media and other non law enforcement officials who were spreading the rumors that turned out to be false and the police the corrected it?

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Ask yourself if an EMT is out there driving around in an Ambulance without knowing how to attend to a gunshot victim. Sure, it may not happen often (In Canada) ... but that is simply not an option or a liability that anyone wants to take on.

but again....we don't have the whole story yet. You seem to be convinced that the police did nothing. I don't think that is the case.

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Ask yourself if an EMT is out there driving around in an Ambulance without knowing how to attend to a gunshot victim. Sure, it may not happen often (In Canada) ... but that is simply not an option or a liability that anyone wants to take on.

but again....we don't have the whole story yet. You seem to be convinced that the police did nothing. I don't think that is the case.

I'm going based on your story and what I've read.  The facts here seem to be quite accurate and quite honestly show that the police didn't follow what I at least know to be the formal procedure during an active shooter.  

And I will admit that my responses are somewhat emotional, admittedly.  But this wasn't Pete Carroll blowing a play call that cost a Super Bowl.  These poor decisions potentially cost kids their lives. 

And while majority of the blame of this goes directly to the shooter...  we don't exist in such a linear society.  Policy issues very much come into play. Gun culture comes into play. Systemic inequity comes into play. And from what I can tell.. a complete lack of police training and leadership has also come into play. 

I watched an interview with cock-stain Lindsey Graham about this and he spouted off about how "I can never understand why someone would do this."  Well....  yeah I can see your point there Lindsey... but knowing that fucked up people do fucked up things should make that light bulb go off to suggest that the people who AREN'T fucked up are doing everything they can to prevent the fucked up people from doing fucked up things.  The obvious remedy being how did he buy such weapons... but that's just one layer of the shit onion. 

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Ask yourself if an EMT is out there driving around in an Ambulance without knowing how to attend to a gunshot victim. Sure, it may not happen often (In Canada) ... but that is simply not an option or a liability that anyone wants to take on.

but again....we don't have the whole story yet. You seem to be convinced that the police did nothing. I don't think that is the case.

I'm going based on your story and what I've read.  The facts here seem to be quite accurate and quite honestly show that the police didn't follow what I at least know to be the formal procedure during an active shooter.  

And I will admit that my responses are somewhat emotional, admittedly.  But this wasn't Pete Carroll blowing a play call that cost a Super Bowl.  These poor decisions potentially cost kids their lives. 

And while majority of the blame of this goes directly to the shooter...  we don't exist in such a linear society.  Policy issues very much come into play. Gun culture comes into play. Systemic inequity comes into play. And from what I can tell.. a complete lack of police training and leadership has also come into play. 

I watched an interview with cock-stain Lindsey Graham about this and he spouted off about how "I can never understand why someone would do this."  Well....  yeah I can see your point there Lindsey... but knowing that fucked up people do fucked up things should make that light bulb go off to suggest that the people who AREN'T fucked up are doing everything they can to prevent the fucked up people from doing fucked up things.  The obvious remedy being how did he buy such weapons... but that's just one layer of the shit onion. 

I understand for sure. It's just such a fucked up situation overall. 

OnWis97

Cropduster-80 said:

^ cops as individuals can be fine. Cops as an institution are rotten.  Good cops in an awful institution are awful by association.  It’s hard to be a good cop swimming upstream in that river of sewage 

Yeah. And that makes it so much more hopeless. It's not a person problem, it's a culture problem. And I don't think you can just take Derrick Chauvin out of the Minneapolis PD and solve anything. The culture doesn't seem to be about serve and protect but about power and intimidation. The old days of cops wanting to actually help people might not be as real as they seem. But it really does feel like it's become more and more about flexing some muscle. It shows not only in the behavior but also in the more military dress and equipment. 

We probably spent too many decades pedestalizing them and they started to buy into the hype. And, because every accusation is a confession, it turns out they tend to be fairly snowflakey, like refusing to work Lynx (WNBA) games because the players wore some kind of "stop the violence" warmup shirts that included names on the back (including Dallas PD, after that incident). After the George Floyd murder, a local pizza shop decided to stop giving cops discounts...and people were outraged. Really, I think the idea of giving cops free/discounted meals might be a contributor to that culture...that message that "you guys are the greatest."

It's difficult to articulate, but they seem to have drifted from protecting people to protecting some intangible ideal (which happens to coincide nicely with showing everyone who's boss).