Ukraine

bbiggs said:

Meltdown99 said:

I hope the west will leave Vlad an exit strategy if things do go real bad…we don’t need Vlad feeling so desperate that he does something even dumber…

It is too bad the exit strategy can't be taking him out.  The "rules of war" won't be too meaningful if nukes start flying in multiple directions. 

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

Do you think giving him the two breakaways would work? I was thinking about that this morning. I bet Putin would claim that as a win but it's obviously not what he originally wanted. 

I don't know, honestly.  Depends on how desperate he is.  If he is cornered, he could lash out and intensify the war, or he might want to cut his losses and say all he ever wanted was protection on the western flank.  Of course his message that SC posted never says that BS line either.  It's much more imperialistic.  

Unless we think there will be a coup and he is deposed, there has to be an exit ramp for Putin.  Because all the power (read: money) is concentrated into the oligarchs who are close to Putin, and who would be financially and legally devastated if he was deposed, I think a coup is unlikely.  So then what's the next option for Ukraine/West?

I mean... he/Russia has swung back and forth more than Trump over figuring out a defense. The Defense has been marely freeing two isolated areas. Then freeing the whole of Ukraine from nenoazis. From drugusers. From Ukraine wanting to commit genocide. To now in the UN saying Ukraine was on the way to develop nukes. If I understood the russian delegate correctly. 

The truth is - Putin is 70 year old and want's his legacy to be that he was the one who restored the Russian empire by taking back, at least, Ukraine. 

Is there any chance his inner circle will take him out?  

I think it's tough for the reasons I mentioned above.  His inner circle are as corrupt as he is.  If he is taken out, then he will have to be replaced by another corrupt depot.  Otherwise the oligarchs will be in jail or against a wall pretty quickly as well.  

I hope I'm wrong. 

Ok.  I did not know if these sanctions might be making people close to him nervous.  However, I’m sure Vlad and his inner circle have billions that can’t be touched by sanctions…when this is over or maybe before it’s over, Ukraine should be given NATO membership…I’m not sure if they were offered NATO membership before Russia invaded if that would have stopped the invasion?  And now that NATO countries are supplying weaponry, NATO countries are involved far more than I anticipated…

They are being personally sanctioned, so money they have in the West is getting frozen.  Additionally, they can't travel to the West as their passports are invalid.  Known family members and children will also be prohibited from attending western schools (which is important to them).  I'm not sure if family will be restricted from travel.  But these oligarchs are being hit.  But if they think they will be at risk in Russia if Putin is deposed, then it's not happening.  If they can protect their assets, remove Putin and get the support of the military, then it could happen.  

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://twitter.com/RachBlevins/status/1498324980416851971?s=20&t=X2mRB2_NckDt2KQfFE4LvQ

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://twitter.com/RachBlevins/status/1498324980416851971?s=20&t=X2mRB2_NckDt2KQfFE4LvQ

Haha, Twitter added "Russia State-affiliated media" to her handle.  She didn't put that there.  

Let's see if she has the foresight to resign.  Otherwise this could saddle her career for a long time. 

Meltdown99 said:

Did anywhere here Dominick Haseks comments that Russian players contracts with nhl teams should be suspended?  A poster mentioned it earlier.  I shot the idea down myself.  What if said player has ties to Putin?  Would you support a move like that?