Joe Manchin

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  • JB16057
    JB16057 Posts: 1,269
    The Juggler said:
    JB16057 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    JB16057 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    what im saying is we are not living in a black and white world where everything works perfectly 100% of the time.

    why throw out a program that works as it should in the vast majority of cases?

    manchin is punishing everyone in that program because a few people may have misused it.

    god forbid we do not cut the military budget. i'd bet that is where the most fraud is in our budget.
    I totally get the black and white situation. I know there are good people that could use this money.

    I would say a vast majority didn't need this money. Not only that, how is this program going to get paid for? They can pay out $550 a month to a family but what does that actually cost when you consider when and how it will get paid back? Money is not free. This administration has already been caught lying about free money. This program makes people dependent on the government which that is the exact thing we need to get away from.

    Manchin is not punishing anyone. He is doing what he believes is right. Handing out money like this is not sustainable.

    what are you basing your statement that the vast majority dont need this on?
    I don't have that data but if most people with children are this poor and rely on this, there are bigger issues at hand. Not only that, having children is a choice. Why do you ask for proof when I say vast majority but when gimme says vast majority, all I hear is crickets?

    Could you obtain the data if given ample time?
    I think it would be hard to collect all of this data and make sense of it but here is an article that has the same numbers I've seen on multiple reports. https://www.chalkbeat.org/2021/11/15/22783579/child-tax-credit-schools-biden-reconciliation-plan-education-poverty-families-research

    "One study estimated that the tax credit reduced the poverty rate among children from about 16% to 12% — effectively keeping 3 million children out of poverty."

    There are roughly 73 million children in the United States. 3 out of 73 is not a vast majority. I don't think this data is conclusive but this is one way to look at it. If you have any additional information, I will look at it with an open mind.

  • JB16057
    JB16057 Posts: 1,269
    edited January 2022
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    JB16057 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    JB16057 said:
    mickeyrat said:



    Goodbye 'godsend': Expiration of child tax credits hits home
    By JOHN RABY, FATIMA HUSSEIN and JOSH BOAK
    14 Jan 2022

    CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — For the first time in half a year, families on Friday are going without a monthly deposit from the child tax credit — a program that was intended to be part of President Joe Biden's legacy but has emerged instead as a flash point over who is worthy of government support.

    Retiree Andy Roberts, from St. Albans, West Virginia, relied on the checks to help raise his two young grandchildren, whom he and his wife adopted because the birth parents are recovering from drug addiction.

    The Robertses are now out $550 a month. That money helped pay for Girl Scouts, ballet and acting lessons and kids' shoes, which Roberts noted are more expensive than adult shoes. The tax credit, he said, was a “godsend.”

    “It’ll make you tighten up your belt, if you’ve got anything to tighten,” Roberts said about losing the payments.

    The monthly tax credits were part of Biden's $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package — and the president had proposed extending them for another full year as part of a separate measure focused on economic and social programs.

    But Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, from Roberts' home state of West Virginia, objected to extending the credit out of concern that the money would discourage people from working and that any additional federal spending would fuel inflation that has already climbed to a nearly 40-year high.


    continues......


    I fully agree with Manchin. If you are wanting a tax credit, you should have to work and pay taxes. I don't think it will discourage people from working because it's not that much money but there plenty of shitty parents who will use this money to support their habits instead of supporting their children. That's a shame. On the other hand, there are plenty of parents who need this money but we can't just hand out money that we don't have. If you want that kind of money, go get a credit card. Don't worry, you don't have to pay it back today but eventually, you will have to pay that money back.

    I think it is funny how this article states this, "The Roberts are now out $550 a month". No, you aren't out anything. It was never a permanent handout and you never should have relied on it as such.

    Nice compassion. Fuck the grandkids, right? Talking about money we don’t have to give away, where were you when POOTWH and his ilk passed the $1.7 trillion tax cut for the corporations and tax payers that “didn’t need it?”
    Compassion? $550 a month and you wonder why there might be inflation? 

    Not being used for food or shelter either in this example. Perfect example at how dumb a child tax credit is.
    No but they got to splurge on clothes for their kids! Maybe that's what mickeyrat was trying to point out to me.
    what business is it of yours if they spent some money on clothes while 95% of the time it went for what it was supposed to go to?

    seems like we should maybe regulate the kinds of food that people can purchase with their food stamps.

    oh yeah. some states are doing that too.
    Seems like maybe we shouldn’t be giving $ to people just cause they have kids…hmmm…weird concept I know. But then again it’s all ok give other peoples $ away
    We can't give money to people just like they had kids much like we can't just pay off everyone's college loan debts. Not everyone has kids. Not everyone went to college so it creates more inequalities.

    Edit: "We shouldn't give money......"
  • Kat
    Kat Posts: 4,961
    Just sharing.



    Falling down,...not staying down
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,418
    I wish I understood the objection to restoring the filibuster  to its original form at the least.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,384
    Kat said:
    Just sharing.



    Don't they show a filibuster being used in Mr Smith goes To Washington?  That was in 1939.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,418
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Kat said:
    Just sharing.



    Don't they show a filibuster being used in Mr Smith goes To Washington?  That was in 1939.

    you aren't required to speak these days. you can "call it in" to stop legislation  dead.

    I believe personally, you should have to speak and your entire caucus must be present.

    do it that way, see how often it gets used....
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    mickeyrat said:
    I wish I understood the objection to restoring the filibuster  to its original form at the least.
    because those that oppose everything are simply lazy. it is easier to say you are blocking it and have the senate move on to other things rather than actually have to talk to run out the clock. 
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    how the fuck can mcconnell simply block everything, yet carve out exceptions to the filibuster in only certain situations?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,418
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    how the fuck can mcconnell simply block everything, yet carve out exceptions to the filibuster in only certain situations?

    budget was in place forever. Reud set the example to get lower courts appointed for obama.

    watch, he gets majority again, he'll  blow it up.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,187
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    how the fuck can mcconnell simply block everything, yet carve out exceptions to the filibuster in only certain situations?
    It's so fucked up...and dems seem to balk at any changes because "if we do it then the GOP will do it when they are in power" even though the motherfuckers have already made changes any chance they get to benefit themselves.

    The "we are better than them" approach doesn't work any more. Dems have to get nasty.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,201
    Gern Blansten said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    how the fuck can mcconnell simply block everything, yet carve out exceptions to the filibuster in only certain situations?
    It's so fucked up...and dems seem to balk at any changes because "if we do it then the GOP will do it when they are in power" even though the motherfuckers have already made changes any chance they get to benefit themselves.

    The "we are better than them" approach doesn't work any more. Dems have to get nasty.
    Sinema and Manchurian Joe both need to be stripped of their committee assignments and their states to pay a price via slow walking federal funding for anything. Joe and Chuck can do it. Let their senate offices hear about why Mabel didn’t get her social security deposit.

    And McConnell will absolutely shove everything he can up the dems’ ass, never mind even fathom solutions to our pressing issues of the day.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,201
    And Manchurian Joe “warning” about partisanship? Where the fuck has this guy been for the past 12-14 years. Good fucking lord, kick him out of the party.
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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    mickeyrat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    how the fuck can mcconnell simply block everything, yet carve out exceptions to the filibuster in only certain situations?

    budget was in place forever. Reud set the example to get lower courts appointed for obama.

    watch, he gets majority again, he'll  blow it up.
    they will blow it up on day one. it is a given.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,384
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Kat said:
    Just sharing.



    Don't they show a filibuster being used in Mr Smith goes To Washington?  That was in 1939.

    you aren't required to speak these days. you can "call it in" to stop legislation  dead.

    I believe personally, you should have to speak and your entire caucus must be present.

    do it that way, see how often it gets used....
    You can phone a friend and hold up the legislation now?  I wasn't aware of that.
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,187
    yes it is total bullshit...they should at least be required to inconvenience themselves
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,201
    Over/under on the number of days before he leaves the party and goes Indy or repub?
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