Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Because we all know the two types of demonstrations/insurrections are same-same, from motive, to numbers of arrests, to severity, etc. Its a fair comparison. Mostly peaceful protestors versus a vacation like Disney World visit.
‘They set us up’: US police arrested over 10,000 protesters, many non-violent
Since George Floyd’s death at the hands of police in Minneapolis, Minnesota, on 25 May,about 140 cities in all 50 states throughout the US have seen protests and demonstrations in response to the killing.
More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.
During protests over the police in-custody death of George Floyd in the summer of 2020, Kamala Harris donated money to a Minnesota nonprofit that helped protesters who were arrested get out of jail and break more laws.
What's True
Harris expressed support for a nonprofit called the Minnesota Freedom Fund (MFF), which pays criminal bail and immigration bonds, and encouraged her supporters to donate to it during the protests over Floyd's death in the summer of 2020.
What's False
However, Harris did not donate money to the nonprofit before, after, or during the protests, according to its records. Additionally, no evidence shows people who received bail or bond assistance from MFF for arrests during the demonstrations committed more crimes after their initial detainment.
Keep perpetuating the myth. Has "Umbrella Man" been charged yet?
And funny this:
The vast majority of citations and charges against George Floyd protesters were ultimately dropped, dismissed or otherwise not filed, according to a Guardian analysis of law enforcement records and media reports in a dozen jurisdictions around the nation.
But some prosecutors and law enforcement observers charge that departments carried out mass arrests as a crowd control tactic, as a means to silence peaceful protesters, and as a public relations strategy designed to turn the public against demonstrators by making them appear more violent than they were. And what’s more – some of the citing officers never witnessed the protests in the first place.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Crime is but one indicator or societal break down. Here are some other indicators of societal breakdown in the U.S., possibly other countries:
-Democracy, which was once held as sacred, is threatened. -Knee jerk bating and hate on the internet is rampant. -People are becoming more aggressive in their driving habits. "Road rage" has not always been a thing. -Education in the U.S. is on the decline.* -Environmental degradation is a sign of societal collapse (For example, deforestation was a major factor in the fall of the Greek empire.)
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Crazy stuff. We're probably heading down the same road. I guess a most recent example would be that guy Darrell Brooks that killed a bunch of people at a Christmas parade by running them over with his car. He was arrested just a month earlier for....running someone over with his car....but was released on $1,000 bond. He, as you might expect, has a long criminal history. He's also a registered sex offender.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
Hell no. But we have legal aid and I believe you get your own lawyer…but that only applies to people who can not afford a lawyer.
But I say the same, if found not guilty all legal fees should be reimbursed. Why should someone be handed a legal bill if the state either could not prove their case or they have the wrong person…
one of the most famous wrongful convictions in Canadian history was Guy Paul Morin…He had two trials before dna cleared him…but the evidence cleared him in the 1st trial and that jury had it right…he was compensated around 1 million.
another Steven Truscott…convicted as a teenager for a murder he never committed nor could he have physically committed the crime…he was the youngest person to ever be sentenced to death…he was originally sentenced to hang…I believe he was 14. His convictions were not overturned till mid 2000s…he was eventually compensated.
The there are others Donald Marshall and David Millard are other more notable ones that had wrongful convictions overturned and were compensated…
canada has a history of some interesting criminal cases…
record levels of income disparity in spite of record unemployment highest prison population per capita children murdering children in schools megachurches more guns than people homelessness hunger pandemic unaffordable health and mental care isolationist foreign policy structural racism
Not a sign of societal breakdown:
organized crime
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,719
record levels of income disparity in spite of record unemployment highest prison population per capita children murdering children in schools megachurches more guns than people homelessness hunger pandemic unaffordable health and mental care isolationist foreign policy structural racism
Not a sign of societal breakdown:
organized crime
Also all true. Sadly, well said.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Basically. The way the he asked if we get reimbursed for acquitted crimes sounded to me like thats the way they do it up there. So I asked. And the fact we get free attorneys if it is a financial hardship is probably one reason that isn’t the case. I believe I’ve heard before the majority of felony offenders are with a public defender, so not much motivation to get the process changed for most.
Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Basically. The way the he asked if we get reimbursed for acquitted crimes sounded to me like thats the way they do it up there. So I asked. And the fact we get free attorneys if it is a financial hardship is probably one reason that isn’t the case. I believe I’ve heard before the majority of felony offenders are with a public defender, so not much motivation to get the process changed for most.
Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
Yea, that good ol free defense attorney for committing a crime where the conviction rate is north of 80%. I’m sure it factors into the reasoning behind folks committing crimes.
POOTWH is pre-emptively asking for dismissal to avoid being deposed. The trial should move forward and if the litigant loses and can’t pay, bankrupt them or make them pay whatever amount they can afford for the rest of their lives. Clearly the case has merits, knowing what we know of POOTWH and his history.” Justice shouldn’t rely solely on the ability to pay and very often it does.
record levels of income disparity in spite of record unemployment highest prison population per capita children murdering children in schools megachurches more guns than people homelessness hunger pandemic unaffordable health and mental care isolationist foreign policy structural racism
Not a sign of societal breakdown:
organized crime
Yup
I find all of the above infinitely more concerning than organized robberies.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Basically. The way the he asked if we get reimbursed for acquitted crimes sounded to me like thats the way they do it up there. So I asked. And the fact we get free attorneys if it is a financial hardship is probably one reason that isn’t the case. I believe I’ve heard before the majority of felony offenders are with a public defender, so not much motivation to get the process changed for most.
Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
Yea, that good ol free defense attorney for committing a crime where the conviction rate is north of 80%. I’m sure it factors into the reasoning behind folks committing crimes.
POOTWH is pre-emptively asking for dismissal to avoid being deposed. The trial should move forward and if the litigant loses and can’t pay, bankrupt them or make them pay whatever amount they can afford for the rest of their lives. Clearly the case has merits, knowing what we know of POOTWH and his history.” Justice shouldn’t rely solely on the ability to pay and very often it does.
I would have guessed it was a lot higher than 80%. If our conviction rate is only 80% I think we should raise the bar on what it takes to go to trial, since a trial alone can be devastating to an individual and family. Trump is just facing civil lawsuits. That’s different than what this conversation was about. It was asked if individuals who are acquitted of a crime get reimbursed for legal fees. Trump is not (currently) being charged with anything. The standard for civil suits is much lower. It’s common practice to request legal fees and that is there to deter frivolous lawsuits. Everyone does it, not just Trump. Trump has nothing to do with this thread or the conversation, not sure why it keeps circling back to him.
Ive only ever been involved in 1 civil lawsuit. About 10 years ago when I bought my house. Shortly after moving in the sewer clogged and I called a plumber. By dumb luck it was the same plumber the seller used. He told me my sewer pipe was broken a s the seller refused to fix it but wanted to pump out the water so it would be clear long enough to sell. He admitted all that to the plumber. The seller obviously didn’t disclose that to me as is required by law. For 2 years he refused to respond to any requests, had a fake address on file, etc. Finally after 2 years when we got everything together and he could no longer stall he threatened me with 10k of legal fees if I moved forward. Well that’s what I was suing for. 2 years later my witness, the plumber, wasn’t as fired up and as sure of himself as he was when it happened. So instead of being out another 10k I just dropped it. It’s very standard to ask for legal fees, not just among the rich.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Basically. The way the he asked if we get reimbursed for acquitted crimes sounded to me like thats the way they do it up there. So I asked. And the fact we get free attorneys if it is a financial hardship is probably one reason that isn’t the case. I believe I’ve heard before the majority of felony offenders are with a public defender, so not much motivation to get the process changed for most.
Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
Yea, that good ol free defense attorney for committing a crime where the conviction rate is north of 80%. I’m sure it factors into the reasoning behind folks committing crimes.
POOTWH is pre-emptively asking for dismissal to avoid being deposed. The trial should move forward and if the litigant loses and can’t pay, bankrupt them or make them pay whatever amount they can afford for the rest of their lives. Clearly the case has merits, knowing what we know of POOTWH and his history.” Justice shouldn’t rely solely on the ability to pay and very often it does.
I would have guessed it was a lot higher than 80%. If our conviction rate is only 80% I think we should raise the bar on what it takes to go to trial, since a trial alone can be devastating to an individual and family. Trump is just facing civil lawsuits. That’s different than what this conversation was about. It was asked if individuals who are acquitted of a crime get reimbursed for legal fees. Trump is not (currently) being charged with anything. The standard for civil suits is much lower. It’s common practice to request legal fees and that is there to deter frivolous lawsuits. Everyone does it, not just Trump. Trump has nothing to do with this thread or the conversation, not sure why it keeps circling back to him.
Ive only ever been involved in 1 civil lawsuit. About 10 years ago when I bought my house. Shortly after moving in the sewer clogged and I called a plumber. By dumb luck it was the same plumber the seller used. He told me my sewer pipe was broken a s the seller refused to fix it but wanted to pump out the water so it would be clear long enough to sell. He admitted all that to the plumber. The seller obviously didn’t disclose that to me as is required by law. For 2 years he refused to respond to any requests, had a fake address on file, etc. Finally after 2 years when we got everything together and he could no longer stall he threatened me with 10k of legal fees if I moved forward. Well that’s what I was suing for. 2 years later my witness, the plumber, wasn’t as fired up and as sure of himself as he was when it happened. So instead of being out another 10k I just dropped it. It’s very standard to ask for legal fees, not just among the rich.
Free criminal defense is enshrined in the 6A. And yes, not only the rich get screwed by the "process" and "blind or equal justice."
According to a study by the U.S. Department of Justice, 76% of defendants with a private attorney were convicted, compared to 88% of defendants with a public attorney.
I used POOTWH as an example of suing for court costs to avoid accountability or an attempt at accountability. Because it was news a few weeks back. That's why I brought it up. I also realize we're discussing criminal and I was pointing out that "they," the government, don't reimburse for acquittal and its not because you get free legal defense. You can bring a civil suit if wrongly convicted or falsely accused of a crime and dragged through the process. However, you have limited chance of success of being compensated.
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Basically. The way the he asked if we get reimbursed for acquitted crimes sounded to me like thats the way they do it up there. So I asked. And the fact we get free attorneys if it is a financial hardship is probably one reason that isn’t the case. I believe I’ve heard before the majority of felony offenders are with a public defender, so not much motivation to get the process changed for most.
Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
Yea, that good ol free defense attorney for committing a crime where the conviction rate is north of 80%. I’m sure it factors into the reasoning behind folks committing crimes.
POOTWH is pre-emptively asking for dismissal to avoid being deposed. The trial should move forward and if the litigant loses and can’t pay, bankrupt them or make them pay whatever amount they can afford for the rest of their lives. Clearly the case has merits, knowing what we know of POOTWH and his history.” Justice shouldn’t rely solely on the ability to pay and very often it does.
I would have guessed it was a lot higher than 80%. If our conviction rate is only 80% I think we should raise the bar on what it takes to go to trial, since a trial alone can be devastating to an individual and family. Trump is just facing civil lawsuits. That’s different than what this conversation was about. It was asked if individuals who are acquitted of a crime get reimbursed for legal fees. Trump is not (currently) being charged with anything. The standard for civil suits is much lower. It’s common practice to request legal fees and that is there to deter frivolous lawsuits. Everyone does it, not just Trump. Trump has nothing to do with this thread or the conversation, not sure why it keeps circling back to him.
Ive only ever been involved in 1 civil lawsuit. About 10 years ago when I bought my house. Shortly after moving in the sewer clogged and I called a plumber. By dumb luck it was the same plumber the seller used. He told me my sewer pipe was broken a s the seller refused to fix it but wanted to pump out the water so it would be clear long enough to sell. He admitted all that to the plumber. The seller obviously didn’t disclose that to me as is required by law. For 2 years he refused to respond to any requests, had a fake address on file, etc. Finally after 2 years when we got everything together and he could no longer stall he threatened me with 10k of legal fees if I moved forward. Well that’s what I was suing for. 2 years later my witness, the plumber, wasn’t as fired up and as sure of himself as he was when it happened. So instead of being out another 10k I just dropped it. It’s very standard to ask for legal fees, not just among the rich.
Free criminal defense is enshrined in the 6A. And yes, not only the rich get screwed by the "process" and "blind or equal justice."
According to a study by the U.S. Department of Justice, 76% of defendants with a private attorney were convicted, compared to 88% of defendants with a public attorney.
I used POOTWH as an example of suing for court costs to avoid accountability or an attempt at accountability. Because it was news a few weeks back. That's why I brought it up. I also realize we're discussing criminal and I was pointing out that "they," the government, don't reimburse for acquittal and its not because you get free legal defense. You can bring a civil suit if wrongly convicted or falsely accused of a crime and dragged through the process. However, you have limited chance of success of being compensated.
12% difference makes me think that paying for a lawyer isn't all that it's cracked up to be and that public defenders aren't good at all...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,719
Society is not breaking down…crime has always existed…and always will.
Yeah crime's always existed but the reaction to it has changed...often for partisan reasons. From conservatives backing the January 6th rioters (complete with a Tucker Carlson documentary called "Patriot Purge") to liberals backing last summer's BLM rioters (complete with soon-to-be VP Kamala Harris promoting a bail fund for those arrested).
If your Vice President cared about justice then the government would have to reimburse all legal fees upon an acquittal…people not getting good lawyers likely lead to a lot of miscarriages of justice.
I live in liberal Canada where our liberal government is reducing sentences including sentences for gun crime…gotta get the votes.
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
And on and on…it’s bullshit. If you are not removing peoples freedoms for committing crimes then you remove the deterrent.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
Does Canada reimburse legal fees if you’re found not guilty? I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
You'd trust your freedom to a public defender?
Not if I could afford not to. But my point was that’s probably how they justify not reimbursing the innocent.
Who is “they?” 6A guarantees legal representation and plaintiffs in civil cases can ask a judge/jury for legal costs to be paid as part of a settlement or award. POOTWH is asking for a defamation or libel case to be dismissed based on the aggrieved party not being able to pay their legal costs should they lose.
They being the government and by extension the people. Don’t know how trump got in this conversation. It was asked if people get reimbursed here if they are acquitted in a criminal trial. My guess was it’s probably not a hot issue due to the fact free council is available if it will be a financial burden. That has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
And it’s near impossible to win a civil suit if you’re acquitted of a criminal crime or the charges are dropped unless you can prove malice or criminal intent on behalf of the prosecution. Again, exceedingly rare. I brought up POOTWH as it’s a strategy to deter folks from filing a civil suit in the first place. Just another example of how people with deep pockets can avoid justice and the fact that justice in ‘Murica isn’t equal.
I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
Basically. The way the he asked if we get reimbursed for acquitted crimes sounded to me like thats the way they do it up there. So I asked. And the fact we get free attorneys if it is a financial hardship is probably one reason that isn’t the case. I believe I’ve heard before the majority of felony offenders are with a public defender, so not much motivation to get the process changed for most.
Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
Yea, that good ol free defense attorney for committing a crime where the conviction rate is north of 80%. I’m sure it factors into the reasoning behind folks committing crimes.
POOTWH is pre-emptively asking for dismissal to avoid being deposed. The trial should move forward and if the litigant loses and can’t pay, bankrupt them or make them pay whatever amount they can afford for the rest of their lives. Clearly the case has merits, knowing what we know of POOTWH and his history.” Justice shouldn’t rely solely on the ability to pay and very often it does.
I would have guessed it was a lot higher than 80%. If our conviction rate is only 80% I think we should raise the bar on what it takes to go to trial, since a trial alone can be devastating to an individual and family. Trump is just facing civil lawsuits. That’s different than what this conversation was about. It was asked if individuals who are acquitted of a crime get reimbursed for legal fees. Trump is not (currently) being charged with anything. The standard for civil suits is much lower. It’s common practice to request legal fees and that is there to deter frivolous lawsuits. Everyone does it, not just Trump. Trump has nothing to do with this thread or the conversation, not sure why it keeps circling back to him.
Ive only ever been involved in 1 civil lawsuit. About 10 years ago when I bought my house. Shortly after moving in the sewer clogged and I called a plumber. By dumb luck it was the same plumber the seller used. He told me my sewer pipe was broken a s the seller refused to fix it but wanted to pump out the water so it would be clear long enough to sell. He admitted all that to the plumber. The seller obviously didn’t disclose that to me as is required by law. For 2 years he refused to respond to any requests, had a fake address on file, etc. Finally after 2 years when we got everything together and he could no longer stall he threatened me with 10k of legal fees if I moved forward. Well that’s what I was suing for. 2 years later my witness, the plumber, wasn’t as fired up and as sure of himself as he was when it happened. So instead of being out another 10k I just dropped it. It’s very standard to ask for legal fees, not just among the rich.
Free criminal defense is enshrined in the 6A. And yes, not only the rich get screwed by the "process" and "blind or equal justice."
According to a study by the U.S. Department of Justice, 76% of defendants with a private attorney were convicted, compared to 88% of defendants with a public attorney.
I used POOTWH as an example of suing for court costs to avoid accountability or an attempt at accountability. Because it was news a few weeks back. That's why I brought it up. I also realize we're discussing criminal and I was pointing out that "they," the government, don't reimburse for acquittal and its not because you get free legal defense. You can bring a civil suit if wrongly convicted or falsely accused of a crime and dragged through the process. However, you have limited chance of success of being compensated.
12% difference makes me think that paying for a lawyer isn't all that it's cracked up to be and that public defenders aren't good at all...
Id pay a lot of money if my future was on the line and it gave me a 12% better chance. But this is probably a near impossible comparison to make, there are so many other variables involved that are probably impossible to account for. I don’t feel up to doing the research, but I would guess you’d find a pattern with types of crimes and public vs private defender. Violent crimes probably have more public, white collar probably more private. There’s probably a big difference in guilty rates among types of crimes as well. Most cases never go to trial, the exception being murder cases. So a white collar crime the guy gets a deal unless his attorney, a private defender, tells him he’s got a good chance to beat it and they go to trial and win. A murder case the attorney, in this case a public defender, says there’s little chance to win at trial but he doesn’t take the deal anyway because they usually suck for murder cases and he ends up losing at trial. End result private defender 1 and public defender 0. The attorney probably makes a bigger difference in the type of deal and negotiations.
record levels of income disparity in spite of record unemployment highest prison population per capita children murdering children in schools megachurches more guns than people homelessness hunger pandemic unaffordable health and mental care isolationist foreign policy structural racism
Not a sign of societal breakdown:
organized crime
Yup
I find all of the above infinitely more concerning than organized robberies.
After consideration, maybe the increase in organized crime is a sign of societal breakdown But it's more of a cause and effect relationship
People want reduced crime? Great. Then make sure everyone has housing, education, health care, food, and access to meaningful employment.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,719
record levels of income disparity in spite of record unemployment highest prison population per capita children murdering children in schools megachurches more guns than people homelessness hunger pandemic unaffordable health and mental care isolationist foreign policy structural racism
Not a sign of societal breakdown:
organized crime
Yup
I find all of the above infinitely more concerning than organized robberies.
After consideration, maybe the increase in organized crime is a sign of societal breakdown But it's more of a cause and effect relationship
People want reduced crime? Great. Then make sure everyone has housing, education, health care, food, and access to meaningful employment.
Agreed.
I would add a healthy environment and a sustainable economy.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
a town I lived in for 20 years had a triple homicide in the early 90s…an 18 year killed a young fellow and this young fellows grandparents…he was convicted of 1st degree murder x3…he is out on parole.
one of the most famous Canadian murderers, Paul Bernardo and his wife at the time raped and killed 3 teenagers, she’s free, lives in Quebec and he’s had 2 parole hearings, so he gets to traumatize the families every 2 fucking years when his parole hearing comes due. One of the teenagers raped and murdered was the sister of Karla Homolka (his wife)…yup she raped and murdered her own sister and only got 12 years.
and I could go on and on…
guns flow in freely from the US…what are the minions who man those border booths biggest concern is these days…making sure they punish Canadians returning from day trips who don’t use some dumbass government app to re-enter our country fully vaccinated…
‘They set us up’: US police arrested over 10,000 protesters, many non-violent
Since George Floyd’s death at the hands of police in Minneapolis, Minnesota, on 25 May, about 140 cities in all 50 states throughout the US have seen protests and demonstrations in response to the killing.More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.
‘They set us up’: US police arrested over 10,000 protesters, many non-violent | George Floyd | The Guardian
During protests over the police in-custody death of George Floyd in the summer of 2020, Kamala Harris donated money to a Minnesota nonprofit that helped protesters who were arrested get out of jail and break more laws.
Harris expressed support for a nonprofit called the Minnesota Freedom Fund (MFF), which pays criminal bail and immigration bonds, and encouraged her supporters to donate to it during the protests over Floyd's death in the summer of 2020.
However, Harris did not donate money to the nonprofit before, after, or during the protests, according to its records. Additionally, no evidence shows people who received bail or bond assistance from MFF for arrests during the demonstrations committed more crimes after their initial detainment.
Did Kamala Harris Bail Out 'Violent Rioters' During George Floyd Protests? | Snopes.com
Keep perpetuating the myth. Has "Umbrella Man" been charged yet?
The vast majority of citations and charges against George Floyd protesters were ultimately dropped, dismissed or otherwise not filed, according to a Guardian analysis of law enforcement records and media reports in a dozen jurisdictions around the nation.
But some prosecutors and law enforcement observers charge that departments carried out mass arrests as a crowd control tactic, as a means to silence peaceful protesters, and as a public relations strategy designed to turn the public against demonstrators by making them appear more violent than they were. And what’s more – some of the citing officers never witnessed the protests in the first place.
Most charges against George Floyd protesters dropped, analysis shows | US policing | The Guardian
Why Charges Against Protesters Are Being Dismissed by the Thousands - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
-Knee jerk bating and hate on the internet is rampant.
-People are becoming more aggressive in their driving habits. "Road rage" has not always been a thing.
-Education in the U.S. is on the decline.*
-Environmental degradation is a sign of societal collapse (For example, deforestation was a major factor in the fall of the Greek empire.)
Darrell E. Brooks: The suspect was out on bond after allegedly running over a woman earlier this month - CNN
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
I guess an easy way to get out of it here is you’re provided a lawyer for free if needed.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
But I say the same, if found not guilty all legal fees should be reimbursed. Why should someone be handed a legal bill if the state either could not prove their case or they have the wrong person…
one of the most famous wrongful convictions in Canadian history was Guy Paul Morin…He had two trials before dna cleared him…but the evidence cleared him in the 1st trial and that jury had it right…he was compensated around 1 million.
another Steven Truscott…convicted as a teenager for a murder he never committed nor could he have physically committed the crime…he was the youngest person to ever be sentenced to death…he was originally sentenced to hang…I believe he was 14. His convictions were not overturned till mid 2000s…he was eventually compensated.
canada has a history of some interesting criminal cases…
record levels of income disparity in spite of record unemployment
highest prison population per capita
children murdering children in schools
megachurches
more guns than people
homelessness
hunger
pandemic
unaffordable health and mental care
isolationist foreign policy
structural racism
Not a sign of societal breakdown:
organized crime
Also all true. Sadly, well said.
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I thought you asked if the acquitted were reimbursed in Canada and then said they weren’t in the US because they can get a free defense attorney? Did I misunderstand?
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Isnt threatening to counter-sue for legal fees common practice in civil cases? That’s exactly what keeps people from coming up with frivolous lawsuits hoping they just settle.
POOTWH is pre-emptively asking for dismissal to avoid being deposed. The trial should move forward and if the litigant loses and can’t pay, bankrupt them or make them pay whatever amount they can afford for the rest of their lives. Clearly the case has merits, knowing what we know of POOTWH and his history.” Justice shouldn’t rely solely on the ability to pay and very often it does.
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I find all of the above infinitely more concerning than organized robberies.
Trump is just facing civil lawsuits. That’s different than what this conversation was about. It was asked if individuals who are acquitted of a crime get reimbursed for legal fees. Trump is not (currently) being charged with anything. The standard for civil suits is much lower. It’s common practice to request legal fees and that is there to deter frivolous lawsuits. Everyone does it, not just Trump. Trump has nothing to do with this thread or the conversation, not sure why it keeps circling back to him.
According to a study by the U.S. Department of Justice, 76% of defendants with a private attorney were convicted, compared to 88% of defendants with a public attorney.
The Public Defense Injustice (arcgis.com)
I used POOTWH as an example of suing for court costs to avoid accountability or an attempt at accountability. Because it was news a few weeks back. That's why I brought it up. I also realize we're discussing criminal and I was pointing out that "they," the government, don't reimburse for acquittal and its not because you get free legal defense. You can bring a civil suit if wrongly convicted or falsely accused of a crime and dragged through the process. However, you have limited chance of success of being compensated.
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I've seen it happen. It's a totally f'ed up system.
But this is probably a near impossible comparison to make, there are so many other variables involved that are probably impossible to account for.
I don’t feel up to doing the research, but I would guess you’d find a pattern with types of crimes and public vs private defender. Violent crimes probably have more public, white collar probably more private. There’s probably a big difference in guilty rates among types of crimes as well.
Most cases never go to trial, the exception being murder cases. So a white collar crime the guy gets a deal unless his attorney, a private defender, tells him he’s got a good chance to beat it and they go to trial and win. A murder case the attorney, in this case a public defender, says there’s little chance to win at trial but he doesn’t take the deal anyway because they usually suck for murder cases and he ends up losing at trial. End result private defender 1 and public defender 0.
The attorney probably makes a bigger difference in the type of deal and negotiations.
https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2021/12/07/wrongfully-imprisoned-paul-courteau-request-500-k-from-ri/6419636001/
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After consideration, maybe the increase in organized crime is a sign of societal breakdown
But it's more of a cause and effect relationship
People want reduced crime? Great.
Then make sure everyone has housing, education, health care, food, and access to meaningful employment.