Organized robberies in L.A. Hints of societal breakdown?

brianlux

Yesterday, over thanksgiving dinner, one of many topics that came up in our talking was the current string of organized gang or group related robberies in Southern California.  The article below describes these as "string of organized retail theft."   The Nordstrom robbery in particular is making news.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-smash-and-grab-thefts-continue-los-angeles-nordstrom-store/

The question that comes to mind is this just a passing "thing" or is it an indication of something bigger, like a breakdown of societal order?  I don't mean to sound "alarmist" or "doomer".  I just wonder about things like this.   There are other indicators of how unhinged a lot of people are becoming.  Driving highways and freeways in becoming like being in a chase scene.  What next?  Freeway demolition derby? 
I would venture to say, this being Black Friday, we will hear plenty of other stories about unhinged human behavior.
But maybe it's nothing new.  Maybe I'm reading too  much into it?  You be the judge and tell me what you see happening.

Ledbetterman10

You’re not reading too much into it. 

elvistheking44

No real consequence for the offenders if caught.  The reward for them is far greater than the risk. 

hedonist

I just don’t understand how some have absolutely no conscience when it comes to pulling this shit. What’s happened to people? “If I can steal it, it’s mine”? I’ve read that in SF, pharmacies are being hit too. So now they’re fucking with people’s health as well. I pray that I and others whose lives depend on meds won’t be hurt.

And of course there are no legal repercussions! Gascon is a huge steaming pile of shit of a human being. I think most, if not all, of those running this state are. I think anyone who believes they’re sincerely looking out for their constituents are fooling themselves.

mace1229

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

nicknyr15

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

I believe it’s called smash and grab. 

But yea. Obviously this will continue to happen while there are no consequences being dealt out. Abolish the police!!!!! Hahahah. Sure. 

elvistheking44

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Please explain the difference between stealing during a protest and stealing not during a protest.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

nicknyr15

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

Not picking you out because this has been a discussion, but there seems to be more grievance with the term than the incredible amount of crime that’s taking place over there. 

oftenreading

nicknyr15 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

Not picking you out because this has been a discussion, but there seems to be more grievance with the term than the incredible amount of crime that’s taking place over there. 

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about the level of crime. I prefer accurate use of terms to avoid confusion in discussion, so that's why I commented on this. 

nicknyr15

oftenreading said:

nicknyr15 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

Not picking you out because this has been a discussion, but there seems to be more grievance with the term than the incredible amount of crime that’s taking place over there. 

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about the level of crime. I prefer accurate use of terms to avoid confusion in discussion, so that's why I commented on this. 

There’s nothing much to say about the crime. We all know why it’s happening. 

brianlux

hedonist said:

I just don’t understand how some have absolutely no conscience when it comes to pulling this shit. What’s happened to people? “If I can steal it, it’s mine”? I’ve read that in SF, pharmacies are being hit too. So now they’re fucking with people’s health as well. I pray that I and others whose lives depend on meds won’t be hurt.

And of course there are no legal repercussions! Gascon is a huge steaming pile of shit of a human being. I think most, if not all, of those running this state are. I think anyone who believes they’re sincerely looking out for their constituents are fooling themselves.

Yeah, I totally agree.  It's like a whole sub-species of people with no conscience.
I hadn't heard about the S.F. pharmacy thefts.  That's just insanely wrong.

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

I agree- robbery, theft, stealing.  I guess there are circumstantial differences but it all adds up to the same thing- taking something that belongs to someone else. 

*************************************

So now the question that comes to my mind is, What can be done to deter these robberies/lootings/ thefts/ whatchamacallems?  Jails are over-crowded and prisons today do little if anything to reform criminals (in fact, often the opposite).  So what can be done to turn this around?

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

nicknyr15 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

Not picking you out because this has been a discussion, but there seems to be more grievance with the term than the incredible amount of crime that’s taking place over there. 

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about the level of crime. I prefer accurate use of terms to avoid confusion in discussion, so that's why I commented on this. 

this stems from the "Cancelled!" thread where mace posted an article where one person in that article claimed that looting was a racist term only used when black people are the criminals. 

most of the article made sense, in that it made the distinction, as you did, between looting (opportunistic stealing during a crisis) and robbery (planned stealing of goods). 

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

It’s been political every time. Just a coincidence they started looting during the Floyd protests and again when the Rittenhouse verdict came out? Some of the looters and BLM activists have defended the looting by calling it reparations. I don’t see how you could deny it’s politically motivated, therefore looting per the definition.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

It’s been political every time. Just a coincidence they started looting during the Floyd protests and again when the Rittenhouse verdict came out?

If it occurs in the middle of something like a protest then you can justifiably call it looting. It isn't when there's nothing in particular going on in that physical environment. Then it's just robbery. Whether or not they are stealing for political reasons is irrelevant. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

nicknyr15 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

Not picking you out because this has been a discussion, but there seems to be more grievance with the term than the incredible amount of crime that’s taking place over there. 

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about the level of crime. I prefer accurate use of terms to avoid confusion in discussion, so that's why I commented on this. 

this stems from the "Cancelled!" thread where mace posted an article where one person in that article claimed that looting was a racist term only used when black people are the criminals. 

most of the article made sense, in that it made the distinction, as you did, between looting (opportunistic stealing during a crisis) and robbery (planned stealing of goods). 

Yes, which is why I was a bit surprised that the argument came up again. 

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

It’s been political every time. Just a coincidence they started looting during the Floyd protests and again when the Rittenhouse verdict came out?

If it occurs in the middle of something like a protest then you can justifiably call it looting. It isn't when there's nothing in particular going on in that physical environment. Then it's just robbery. Whether or not they are stealing for political reasons is irrelevant. 

The definition I provided, which I’m sure varies on the source, doesn’t specify it needs to be in the middle of a protest of physical environment, but rather political or social crisis. I’d say we’re still in the middle of a political and social crisis, it was never resolved. Not only that, but became and acceptable form of “protest” for many, so it was a way to continue to protest.
But not calling it looting based on semantics of the definition doesn’t bother me. We can disagree if it fits the definition or not and I don’t really care. I wouldn’t have even brought it up if that’s all it was. What’s annoying ware those saying not to use that term because of its negative or racial connotations. If you’re smashing and grabbing/looting, then I don’t really care about your feelings when we talk about it.

Halifax2TheMax

Societal breakdown? GTFOOH! If you want to see societal breakdown, head on over to the Q or 1/6 threads. Societal breakdown occurs when you elect a thief and loser to be POTUS.

Good fucking grief.

Halifax2TheMax

nicknyr15 said:

oftenreading said:

nicknyr15 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

It will be the norm as long as it’s minimized and allowed to happen. We’re not even supposed to cal it looting because that has too much of a negative connotation. And yet they can loot freely and as already pointed out, almost no consequence even if caught.

No, that's flat out wrong. It's incorrect to call it looting because it isn't looting, it's robbery. Looting is a different thing. 

Per Wikipedia: Looting is the act of stealing, or the taking of goods by force, typically in the midst of a military, political, or other social crisis, such as war,[1] natural disasters (where law and civil enforcement are temporarily ineffective),[2] or rioting.[3] 

How is this not looting? That’s exactly what it is, but we’re not supposed to call it that.

Because the sort of robbery you are talking about is not in the midst of a military, political or social crisis such as war or natural disaster. It's just robbery. That seems like a pretty simple distinction. 

Not picking you out because this has been a discussion, but there seems to be more grievance with the term than the incredible amount of crime that’s taking place over there. 

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about the level of crime. I prefer accurate use of terms to avoid confusion in discussion, so that's why I commented on this. 

There’s nothing much to say about the crime. We all know why it’s happening. 

Why is it happening? Please, enlighten us.

brianlux

I think we need to agree on some definitions here.  Can we agree on these?:

Looting, the act of looting, the act of stealing during a general disturbance.

Robbery:  The act of taking someone's property without the owner's consent, but it has some elements that theft doesn't require. Robbery involves taking property from a person and using force, or the threat of force, to do it.

Theft: the act of taking someone else's property without the owner's consent and with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of its use or possession.

If we can agree on those definitions, then the incidents involved in the article linked at the beginning of this thread involve both theft and robbery, not looting.  Those incidents did not involve looting during protests.  In other words, this is not another Black Lives Matter, or George Floyd thread.  It's about what appears to be an increase in crimes that are not involved in social unrest or protesting.  It revolves around the concern I have regarding what seems to me to be a collapse of morals among certain groups of people who commit these acts without regard to their victims.  This is why I question whether this all might be a sort of warning sign or precursory indication of some form of social breakdown. 

Parksy

brianlux said:

I think we need to agree on some definitions here.  Can we agree on these?:

Looting, the act of looting, the act of stealing during a general disturbance.

Robbery:  The act of taking someone's property without the owner's consent, but it has some elements that theft doesn't require. Robbery involves taking property from a person and using force, or the threat of force, to do it.

Theft: the act of taking someone else's property without the owner's consent and with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of its use or possession.

If we can agree on those definitions, then the incidents involved in the article linked at the beginning of this thread involve both theft and robbery, not looting.  Those incidents did not involve looting during protests.  In other words, this is not another Black Lives Matter, or George Floyd thread.  It's about what appears to be an increase in crimes that are not involved in social unrest or protesting.  It revolves around the concern I have regarding what seems to me to be a collapse of morals among certain groups of people who commit these acts without regard to their victims.  This is why I question whether this all might be a sort of warning sign or precursory indication of some form of social breakdown. 

I  was just going to comment... there is a big difference between theft and robbery.   A lot of people I know think they are the same thing. 

brianlux

Parksy said:

brianlux said:

I think we need to agree on some definitions here.  Can we agree on these?:

Looting, the act of looting, the act of stealing during a general disturbance.

Robbery:  The act of taking someone's property without the owner's consent, but it has some elements that theft doesn't require. Robbery involves taking property from a person and using force, or the threat of force, to do it.

Theft: the act of taking someone else's property without the owner's consent and with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of its use or possession.

If we can agree on those definitions, then the incidents involved in the article linked at the beginning of this thread involve both theft and robbery, not looting.  Those incidents did not involve looting during protests.  In other words, this is not another Black Lives Matter, or George Floyd thread.  It's about what appears to be an increase in crimes that are not involved in social unrest or protesting.  It revolves around the concern I have regarding what seems to me to be a collapse of morals among certain groups of people who commit these acts without regard to their victims.  This is why I question whether this all might be a sort of warning sign or precursory indication of some form of social breakdown. 

I  was just going to comment... there is a big difference between theft and robbery.   A lot of people I know think they are the same thing. 

OK, so we're good on these definitions?

oftenreading

brianlux said:

I think we need to agree on some definitions here.  Can we agree on these?:

Looting, the act of looting, the act of stealing during a general disturbance.

Robbery:  The act of taking someone's property without the owner's consent, but it has some elements that theft doesn't require. Robbery involves taking property from a person and using force, or the threat of force, to do it.

Theft: the act of taking someone else's property without the owner's consent and with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of its use or possession.

If we can agree on those definitions, then the incidents involved in the article linked at the beginning of this thread involve both theft and robbery, not looting.  Those incidents did not involve looting during protests.  In other words, this is not another Black Lives Matter, or George Floyd thread.  It's about what appears to be an increase in crimes that are not involved in social unrest or protesting.  It revolves around the concern I have regarding what seems to me to be a collapse of morals among certain groups of people who commit these acts without regard to their victims.  This is why I question whether this all might be a sort of warning sign or precursory indication of some form of social breakdown. 

I agree Brian, definitions are important. In Canada robbery is sometimes defined as being theft with confrontation, to highlight that in an act of robbery you directly confront the victim and take their property from them, because obviously this increases the impact on the victim due to fear of violence. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

I think we need to agree on some definitions here.  Can we agree on these?:

Looting, the act of looting, the act of stealing during a general disturbance.

Robbery:  The act of taking someone's property without the owner's consent, but it has some elements that theft doesn't require. Robbery involves taking property from a person and using force, or the threat of force, to do it.

Theft: the act of taking someone else's property without the owner's consent and with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of its use or possession.

If we can agree on those definitions, then the incidents involved in the article linked at the beginning of this thread involve both theft and robbery, not looting.  Those incidents did not involve looting during protests.  In other words, this is not another Black Lives Matter, or George Floyd thread.  It's about what appears to be an increase in crimes that are not involved in social unrest or protesting.  It revolves around the concern I have regarding what seems to me to be a collapse of morals among certain groups of people who commit these acts without regard to their victims.  This is why I question whether this all might be a sort of warning sign or precursory indication of some form of social breakdown. 

I agree Brian, definitions are important. In Canada robbery is sometimes defined as being theft with confrontation, to highlight that in an act of robbery you directly confront the victim and take their property from them, because obviously this increases the impact on the victim due to fear of violence. 

Interesting, thanks.

So some questioning come to mind to me regarding all this.  This sense I get is that this is kind of a new "trend" (for lack of a better word) in crime, but we also live in a world of sensationalist news and click bate.  I'm really hoping these are just isolated incidents, and not actual trends, but with news being so slanted these days, it's often hard to know for certain.
I sometime wonder if I have read too much James Howard Kunstler (who I was a big fan of when he a Democrat and was writing about peak oil, the end of suburbia, and failing societies rather than, for GOD knows what reason, becoming an anti-Democrat crusader), and other such literature.  I am both fascinated by and at the same time very wary of the possibility of societal collapse.  Yet, these things do happen!

HughFreakingDillon

I don't see this as a societal collapse. 

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't see this as a societal collapse. 

I hope not... but not even a precursor?  (Damn, that's not the right word... you know, a foreboding of sorts)?

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't see this as a societal collapse. 

I hope not... but not even a precursor?  (Damn, that's not the right word... you know, a foreboding of sorts)?

I don't think so. I think sometimes groups or individuals come up with crazy ideas to circumvent societal norms, until society catches up to deal with it. If these issues were all over the country, or even all over the world, I might get concerned. but these are so few and far between for the most part, I see it getting snuffed out pretty quick. 

I think right now there's an interest in people taking the power back, and there's always going to be a segment of those people that try doing that through illegal or nefarious means for a short term goal. But those don't last. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon

LOL