PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.

So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.

Not to mention there were no whips to begin with.

I get where they are coming from in saying "whips". That thing they are whipping/flailing around that directs the horse is what they are talking about.  I don't ride so I don't know what that is called.

Aren’t they just the reins? That’s what it looks like to me. Everyone knows what a rein is, and I know nothing about riding horses. The wooden horse we got our 2 year old has a rein on it. Everyone knows the expression “rein it in.” I just don’t buy any journalist doesn’t know what a rein is and thought they were whips.Claiming they are whipping people gives an image that are riding around with actual whips, and , you know, using them on people. When in reality they were just reins and from all the video I saw, no one was actually whipped.
Now some sources did say they were using reins as whips, but the first stories I saw the first day this broke said they were using whips. Including the link posted here.

They are reins, but you can definitely “whip” someone with a rein.  In the image below, you can see how long the reins are and the aggressiveness of the person on horseback.  

Yes they could whip them but this shows the agent grabbing the person and not whipping them.  The video I have seen so far has the agents making a noise on their chaps.  It's a way to get attention from whom they are corralling.

These people have multiple to-go meals and sports drinks.  Where the hell did they get those from?  Were they stolen?  Is that why they are tracking these people down?

There just has to be way more to this than what has been reported.

All possible, but the reports are that they were “herding them like cattle”.  There was most likely abuse that took place judging by the White House response.  It may not be as bad as some media portray it (as in almost everything), but its not a party I would want to be a part of.

I look at it like this.  The agents are trying to have some sort of order.  There are way too many people down there that they can possibly control.  You'll have stragglers from the crowds and these are most likely them.  Just so everyone is aware when you que up for an entrance or merch you are also being herded like cattle...

Again I'll ask what are the agents job requirements again?  What would you have them do?

If we have affordable housing problems now, what is the amount of people coming in to do?  I feel horrible for them and their steep uphill battle.

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.

So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.

Not to mention there were no whips to begin with.

I get where they are coming from in saying "whips". That thing they are whipping/flailing around that directs the horse is what they are talking about.  I don't ride so I don't know what that is called.

Aren’t they just the reins? That’s what it looks like to me. Everyone knows what a rein is, and I know nothing about riding horses. The wooden horse we got our 2 year old has a rein on it. Everyone knows the expression “rein it in.” I just don’t buy any journalist doesn’t know what a rein is and thought they were whips.Claiming they are whipping people gives an image that are riding around with actual whips, and , you know, using them on people. When in reality they were just reins and from all the video I saw, no one was actually whipped.
Now some sources did say they were using reins as whips, but the first stories I saw the first day this broke said they were using whips. Including the link posted here.

They are reins, but you can definitely “whip” someone with a rein.  In the image below, you can see how long the reins are and the aggressiveness of the person on horseback.  

Yes they could whip them but this shows the agent grabbing the person and not whipping them.  The video I have seen so far has the agents making a noise on their chaps.  It's a way to get attention from whom they are corralling.

These people have multiple to-go meals and sports drinks.  Where the hell did they get those from?  Were they stolen?  Is that why they are tracking these people down?

There just has to be way more to this than what has been reported.

All possible, but the reports are that they were “herding them like cattle”.  There was most likely abuse that took place judging by the White House response.  It may not be as bad as some media portray it (as in almost everything), but its not a party I would want to be a part of.

I look at it like this.  The agents are trying to have some sort of order.  There are way too many people down there that they can possibly control.  You'll have stragglers from the crowds and these are most likely them.  Just so everyone is aware when you que up for an entrance or merch you are also being herded like cattle...

Again I'll ask what are the agents job requirements again?  What would you have them do?

If we have affordable housing problems now, what is the amount of people coming in to do?  I feel horrible for them and their steep uphill battle.

Off topic but affordable housing has nothing to do with folks like this and everything to do with private equity firms buying homes and apartment complexes at above market rate to inflate the value for their portfolios sometimes letting properties sit empty, as well as people buying homes that would otherwise be available to families and turning them into rentals or airbnbs. These poor folks won't move the needle on affordable housing.

Which is my point.  There isn't much to begin with so the influx of people will have it that much harder.

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.

So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.

Not to mention there were no whips to begin with.

I get where they are coming from in saying "whips". That thing they are whipping/flailing around that directs the horse is what they are talking about.  I don't ride so I don't know what that is called.

Aren’t they just the reins? That’s what it looks like to me. Everyone knows what a rein is, and I know nothing about riding horses. The wooden horse we got our 2 year old has a rein on it. Everyone knows the expression “rein it in.” I just don’t buy any journalist doesn’t know what a rein is and thought they were whips.Claiming they are whipping people gives an image that are riding around with actual whips, and , you know, using them on people. When in reality they were just reins and from all the video I saw, no one was actually whipped.
Now some sources did say they were using reins as whips, but the first stories I saw the first day this broke said they were using whips. Including the link posted here.

They are reins, but you can definitely “whip” someone with a rein.  In the image below, you can see how long the reins are and the aggressiveness of the person on horseback.  

Yes, you can whip someone with a rein. You can whip people with lots of things. But they didn’t. And they weren’t whips. Lots of false reporting on this story.

Break it and then claim you alone can fix it, with a wall, no less. What patriotism. Take the below from Letter From an American and compare it to the chart that I believe the Juggler may have posted about what was working during the Obama Administration:

Just wanted to pop in wish everyone a Happy Caravan Season! I have a feeling it will be a bigger celebration next year but the next couple weeks will be fun!

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Break it and then claim you alone can fix it, with a wall, no less. What patriotism. Take the below from Letter From an American and compare it to the chart that I believe the Juggler may have posted about what was working during the Obama Administration:

Today, the GAO reported that actions of the Trump administration had undermined U.S. goals in the Northern Triangle countries that are currently driving immigration to the southern border. Since 2008, the U.S. has funded development projects in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to promote economic development, provide security, and combat corruption. This investment was designed, in part, to slow the movement of immigrants escaping the violence and economic dislocation of the region to the U.S. border.
  

In March 2019, the Trump administration abruptly halted promised money, and that freeze continued until June 2020. Today’s GAO report documented how that suspension hurt 92 of the 114 projects underway under the control of the  United States Agency for International Development (USAID), and 65 of the 168 projects operating under the State Department.

Migration to the border soared, right before the 2020 election. 

Brilliant brilliance in all its brilliancy.

Today, the GAO reported that actions of the Trump administration had undermined U.S. goals in the Northern Triangle countries that are currently driving immigration to the southern border. Since 2008, the U.S. has funded development projects in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to promote economic development, provide security, and combat corruption. This investment was designed, in part, to slow the movement of immigrants escaping the violence and economic dislocation of the region to the U.S. border.

This never did really help though.  It was a mess at the border for years though.  Didn't it get worse via Covid?  I know we have family in Peru and things are not good down there because of Covid.

Was it? It's always been an issue but border crossings (or apprehensions?) prior to the Trump administration were among the lowest in decades.

The Juggler said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Break it and then claim you alone can fix it, with a wall, no less. What patriotism. Take the below from Letter From an American and compare it to the chart that I believe the Juggler may have posted about what was working during the Obama Administration:

Today, the GAO reported that actions of the Trump administration had undermined U.S. goals in the Northern Triangle countries that are currently driving immigration to the southern border. Since 2008, the U.S. has funded development projects in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to promote economic development, provide security, and combat corruption. This investment was designed, in part, to slow the movement of immigrants escaping the violence and economic dislocation of the region to the U.S. border.
  

In March 2019, the Trump administration abruptly halted promised money, and that freeze continued until June 2020. Today’s GAO report documented how that suspension hurt 92 of the 114 projects underway under the control of the  United States Agency for International Development (USAID), and 65 of the 168 projects operating under the State Department.

Migration to the border soared, right before the 2020 election. 

Brilliant brilliance in all its brilliancy.

Today, the GAO reported that actions of the Trump administration had undermined U.S. goals in the Northern Triangle countries that are currently driving immigration to the southern border. Since 2008, the U.S. has funded development projects in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to promote economic development, provide security, and combat corruption. This investment was designed, in part, to slow the movement of immigrants escaping the violence and economic dislocation of the region to the U.S. border.

This never did really help though.  It was a mess at the border for years though.  Didn't it get worse via Covid?  I know we have family in Peru and things are not good down there because of Covid.

Was it? It's always been an issue but border crossings (or apprehensions?) prior to the Trump administration were among the lowest in decades.

Having people in that area of work 2 things did happen during that time.  Catch and release was ordered for women and children.  Catch and deportations were not enforced.  Basically the border agents were told to turn the other way.

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Break it and then claim you alone can fix it, with a wall, no less. What patriotism. Take the below from Letter From an American and compare it to the chart that I believe the Juggler may have posted about what was working during the Obama Administration:

Today, the GAO reported that actions of the Trump administration had undermined U.S. goals in the Northern Triangle countries that are currently driving immigration to the southern border. Since 2008, the U.S. has funded development projects in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to promote economic development, provide security, and combat corruption. This investment was designed, in part, to slow the movement of immigrants escaping the violence and economic dislocation of the region to the U.S. border.
  

In March 2019, the Trump administration abruptly halted promised money, and that freeze continued until June 2020. Today’s GAO report documented how that suspension hurt 92 of the 114 projects underway under the control of the  United States Agency for International Development (USAID), and 65 of the 168 projects operating under the State Department.

Migration to the border soared, right before the 2020 election. 

Brilliant brilliance in all its brilliancy.

Today, the GAO reported that actions of the Trump administration had undermined U.S. goals in the Northern Triangle countries that are currently driving immigration to the southern border. Since 2008, the U.S. has funded development projects in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to promote economic development, provide security, and combat corruption. This investment was designed, in part, to slow the movement of immigrants escaping the violence and economic dislocation of the region to the U.S. border.

This never did really help though.  It was a mess at the border for years though.  Didn't it get worse via Covid?  I know we have family in Peru and things are not good down there because of Covid.

Was it? It's always been an issue but border crossings (or apprehensions?) prior to the Trump administration were among the lowest in decades.

Having people in that area of work 2 things did happen during that time.  Catch and release was ordered for women and children.  Catch and deportations were not enforced.  Basically the border agents were told to turn the other way.

ummm, no.

Table 39. Aliens Removed or Returned: Fiscal Years 1892 to 2019 | Homeland Security (dhs.gov)

The Juggler said:

Yeah......so let's just go back to what was working before Trump took over. 

Does anyone know if this is numbers of people seeking asylum now?  This is a record at the border.  How many before this just came over illegally?  I'm sure that is a hard number to guess at and I don't know how one would google that info.

The Juggler said:

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

Yeah......so let's just go back to what was working before Trump took over. 

Does anyone know if this is numbers of people seeking asylum now?  This is a record at the border.  How many before this just came over illegally?  I'm sure that is a hard number to guess at and I don't know how one would google that info.

I don't know. I do know things were not horrible prior to the last 5 years or so. 

Wasn't Obama sued by the ACLU because it was so bad?

I wonder if it was all just a different way of accounting that the numbers went down?

So if we do have a worker shortage, the influx of immigrants to help a vulnerable working class could give it a nice boost.  I know that has helped push an economy in years past.

By Nick Miroff and Kevin Sieff
December 02 at 10:00 AM EST
The Biden administration has reached a deal with the Mexican government to restart the Trump-era “Remain in Mexico” program that requires asylum seekers to wait outside U.S. territory while their claims are processed, U.S. officials told reporters Thursday morning.
Implementation of the program, formerly known as the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP), will begin Monday at one border location and quickly expand to San Diego and in the Texas cities of Brownsville, Laredo and El Paso, said the administration officials, who briefed reporters on condition they not be identified.
The U.S. officials said they expected Mexican authorities to announce the agreement Thursday.
“Mexico has demanded a number of humanitarian improvements as conditions of agreeing to accept enrollees,” said one U.S. official, including guarantees that asylum seekers will have access to legal counsel and their humanitarian claims will be processed within 180 days.
“These are improvements we agree with,” the official said.
The Trump administration used the MPP program to return more than 60,000 asylum seekers across the border to Mexico, where they were often preyed upon by criminal gangs, extortionists and kidnappers. President Biden denounced MPP as inhumane and quickly ended it after taking office, but Republican officials in Texas and Missouri sued the administration in federal court and won an injunction in August forcing the government to resurrect the program.
The Biden administration will offer coronavirus vaccines to asylum seekers placed in the MPP program, the officials said. Adults will be offered the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, and eligible minors will be able to receive the two-dose Pfizer regimen.
The shots would not be mandatory, and they will be provided to migrants in U.S. Border Patrol stations by an independent contractor, the officials said.
The Department of Justice has assigned 22 immigration judges to oversee the MPP restart and ensure claims are processed rapidly to comply with the 180-day timeline, officials said.
Biden officials have spent the past several weeks negotiating the terms of the restart with the Mexican government, which wanted the Biden administration to provide assurances that asylum seekers’ cases would be processed expeditiously.
Officials in the United States are planning to initially use the MPP program primarily for single adult asylum seekers, who account for the majority of illegal border crossings, according to one official. Mexico is willing to accept asylum seekers from Spanish-speaking countries, as with the previous version of the program, but migrants from “all western hemisphere nations” will be eligible for return, one administration official said.
The Biden administration will continue to use the Title 42 public health law — which allows U.S. authorities to rapidly “expel” most border crossers — as its primary border management tool. In recent weeks, the administration has increased the percentage of migrants returned to Mexico or sent home on “expulsion flights” under Title 42, which generally does not afford asylum seekers a chance to apply for U.S. humanitarian protections.
Two U.S. officials with knowledge of the plans said the restart of MPP would probably begin slowly and ramp up, but the two countries were still discussing numerical targets and ironing out other details ahead of the announcement. Temporary “tent courts” in Brownsville and Laredo have been under construction but may not be fully ready to begin holding hearings next week, one official said.
The return of MPP is awkward for the Biden administration, which is still formally preparing to end the program even as it brings it back under court order.
“MPP had endemic flaws, imposed unjustifiable human costs, pulled resources and personnel away from other priority efforts, and did not address the root causes of irregular migration,” Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in an October statement.
“MPP not only undercuts the Administration’s ability to implement critically needed and foundational changes to the immigration system, it fails to provide the fair process and humanitarian protections that individuals deserve under the law,” he said.
Mexico has expressed concern about the implementation of the program, releasing a statement last week outlining several “humanitarian concerns,” including the living conditions of asylum seekers, and their access to legal representation and medical care.
But when the program was first implemented under the Trump administration, Mexico did little to assist or protect the tens of thousands of migrants who waited for their asylum claims to be processed. Many of them lived in tent camps, shelters or rented apartments in some of the country’s most dangerous cities.
Human Rights First, a New York-based nonprofit organization, recorded at least 1,544 “violent attacks” against migrants returned to Mexico under the program.

tempo_n_groove said:

Is anyone following the Belarus border problem?  

https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/acaps-briefing-note-belaruspoland-migration-crisis-belarus-poland-border-2-december

You mean the Belarusian caravan problem?

mickeyrat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Is anyone following the Belarus border problem?  

https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/acaps-briefing-note-belaruspoland-migration-crisis-belarus-poland-border-2-december

You mean the Belarusian caravan problem?

no no. the one where the president of Belarus  sought to disrupt a neighboring country. one with right wing leanings but a member of NATO.

As I recall many of those in some of the border camps were bussed back out

Yes, they signed visas to let them travel to Belarus and the border is turning them back.

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Is anyone following the Belarus border problem?  

https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/acaps-briefing-note-belaruspoland-migration-crisis-belarus-poland-border-2-december

You mean the Belarusian caravan problem?

I'll guess you haven't been following then?

How is it different?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/04/06/gov-greg-abbott-orders-texas-to-inspect-vehicles-at-border-charter-buses-to-ship-migrants-to-dc/