Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Ventilation has a very low survival rate. In any illness. Its basically last resort. Intrusive and low chance of survival
Yes exactly. That's why the phrase above is so misleading. It makes it seem like putting the person on the vent caused the death, when they could have survived.
I haven't seen any data yet that omicron escapes vaccine immunity. have you?
There are 2 triple vaxxed docs in Isreal with omricon that wscaped their immunity. Perhaps, it is the many mutations similar to Beta that this worry and trend comes from. This is why borders shut down. Also lots of chatter about reinfection.
So ya, in this respect vaccinating children a month from now may have reduced efficacy. Maybe I'll wait for more data.
2 people. that's an infinitesimal data pool. it basically means nothing at this point.
So we're waiting for real world days to (dis)prove this.
You feeling positive that data will prove otherwise?
I haven't seen any data yet that omicron escapes vaccine immunity. have you?
There are 2 triple vaxxed docs in Isreal with omricon that wscaped their immunity. Perhaps, it is the many mutations similar to Beta that this worry and trend comes from. This is why borders shut down. Also lots of chatter about reinfection.
So ya, in this respect vaccinating children a month from now may have reduced efficacy. Maybe I'll wait for more data.
2 people. that's an infinitesimal data pool. it basically means nothing at this point.
So we're waiting for real world days to (dis)prove this.
You feeling positive that data will prove otherwise?
I'm feeling positive that the symptoms are extremely mild, as has been reported from RSA.
Mysteries of omicron variant could take weeks to untangle
By LAURAN NEERGAARD and LAURA UNGAR
Today
A pandemic-weary world faces weeks of confusing uncertainty as countries restrict travel and take other steps to halt the newest potentially risky coronavirus mutant before anyone knows just how dangerous omicron really is.
Will it spread even faster than the already extra-contagious delta variant? Does it make people sicker? Does it evade vaccines’ protection or reinfect survivors? There are lots of guesses but little hard evidence as scientists race to find answers amid scrutiny from an anxious public.
“Pretty much the right level of freaking out,” is how Trevor Bedford, who studies evolution of the coronavirus at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, characterized health experts' reactions.
Omicron might not turn out “as bad as we’re perhaps imagining it could be but treating it as such at the moment I think is entirely appropriate,” he said.
Up to now, the world has been slow to react to each coronavirus curveball. This time an early warning from South Africa and Botswana might have offered important head start.
“It’s hard to know: Have we just simply caught up to the reality and now the world is reacting with the appropriate speed as variants emerge?” asked Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.
WHY THE WORRY?
Omicron raised alarm because of its sheer number of mutations, more than prior variants had. Possibly 30 are in a key place, the spike protein that lets the virus attach to human cells.
Scientists recognize a few mutations from earlier variants that were more contagious or a bit resistant to vaccination. But they've never seen this particular constellation of changes.
Most “are really unique to this virus,” said Dr. William Moss of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. “It’s that combination of potential increased transmissibility and ability -- potential ability -- to escape our immune system that has everyone worried.”
“It is a balance,” Moss said. “We want to take this seriously because of the combination of mutations, but we don’t want to panic and we don’t want to overreact as well until we really learn more about this virus.”
SCRAMBLING FOR ANSWERS
Scientists have little data yet on whether omicron causes more severe disease than other variants. And while it already has been diagnosed in numerous countries just days after its discovery was announced, it’s also too soon to know how contagious it is.
The alpha variant that emerged about a year ago was more transmissible than the virus that started the pandemic. Then delta hit, far more contagious than alpha.
It’s unclear how omicron would compete in a place like the U.S. where that strong delta variant is causing more than 99% of current COVID-19 cases, said Louis Mansky, director of the Institute for Molecular Virology at the University of Minnesota.
Even in certain parts of South Africa, a reported jump in omicron-caused cases may not indicate the mutant is more contagious than delta, Lemieux said.
“We really don’t know if omicron is out-competing delta at all or whether it’s become the dominant strain in a few places just due to chance,” he said.
To understand omicron better, scientists are trying to figure out how it emerged. It’s not a descendent of delta. One popular theory is that someone with a severely weakened immune system had a coronavirus infection they couldn’t shake for so long that mutations stacked up.
“This is completely bizarre,” said Bedford, whose says variants that were circulating in summer of 2020 appear to be omicron's closest relatives.
Viruses mutate every time they spread and it’s possible omicron was simmering undetected someplace with poor COVID-19 testing. But Bedford said its sudden appearance is more likely a result of the cat-and-mouse struggle as an immune-compromised body fights a virus that repeatedly changes its spike protein to avoid detection. (Bedford receives funding from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, which also supports The Associated Press Health and Science Department.)
WHAT TO WATCH FOR
Scientists say it may take two to four weeks to get some important answers.
Among the biggest concerns is how much omicron might evade immunity. So far the beta variant has been the biggest challenge to vaccine protection but that mutant fortunately didn’t spread widely.
“It is highly unlikely that this new variant has escaped all antibodies generated following vaccination,” said immunologist E. John Wherry of the University of Pennsylvania.
Vaccine makers and other scientists are setting up lab tests to tell how well antibodies generated by vaccines or prior infection can fight omicron compared to earlier variants. It takes time because first, they must grow samples of so-called “pseudoviruses” that hold the worrisome new mutations.
But that “won’t be the whole story,” Moss said.
The immune system has multiple layers of defense beyond antibodies, including T cells that should help avoid severe disease even if someone experiences a breakthrough infection.
Experts also will be carefully monitoring the prevalence of omicron-caused infections and their severity.
As for treatments, Regeneron says its COVID-19 antibody cocktail may be less effective against omicron although more testing is needed. But there are some antiviral pills in the pipeline, a long-needed new option that shouldn't be affected by omicron's mutations.
WHAT TO DO NOW?
Scientists urge people to take simple precautions as they wait for answers — mask indoors, avoid crowds, get the shots if you are among the 45 million U.S. adults who still haven't been vaccinated — regardless of what variant's circulating.
One thing is clear: Vaccination remains critical. Today’s shots do protect against delta and other versions of the virus that already are rampaging regardless of whether omicron spreads or fizzles. The U.S. and other countries are urging people eligible for boosters not to wait because the extra dose causes a huge burst of virus-fighting antibodies.
“People who are on the fence about whether to get vaccinated should see a great reason to get vaccinated. People who haven’t yet gotten their boosters and are eligible should get their boosters. And then I think we need to let the scientists and the public health practitioners do their work," Lemieux said.
___
The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Preliminary evidence indicates that Omicron may only lead to mild symptoms among most people who contract it.
Experts around the world are monitoring it closely to see if it is more likely to lead to severe illness compared to earlier variants.
As far as vaccine efficacy goes: the worrying data thus far is this basic wiki info. (I will look at the footnotes and read those sources, as I prefer primary info over news reports with political bias.)
Thirty-two mutations affect the spike protein, the main antigenic target of antibodies generated by infections and of many vaccines widely administered. Many of those mutations had not been observed in other strains.[11][12]
...Professor Paul Morgan, immunologist at Cardiff University, also recommends vaccination. Morgan said, "I think a blunting rather than a complete loss [of immunity] is the most likely outcome. The virus can't possibly lose every single epitope on its surface, because if it did that spike protein couldn't work any more. So, while some of the antibodies and T cell clones made against earlier versions of the virus, or against the vaccines may not be effective, there will be others, which will remain effective. (...) If half, or two-thirds, or whatever it is, of the immune response is not going to be effective, and you're left with the residual half, then the more boosted that is the better."
...Many of the mutations to the spike protein are present in other variants of concern and are related to increased infectivity and antibody evasion. Computational modeling suggests that the variant may also escape cell-mediated immunity.[12].
...As of November 2021, it is unknown how the variant will spread in populations with high levels of immunity, it is also unknown if the omicron variant causes a milder or more severe COVID infection.
Based on the mutation profile of Omicron, partial immune escape is likely.... Vaccination
Whilst the presence of multiple RBD mutations in the spike protein of Omicron indicate a high likelihood of immune
escape from antibody-mediated protection, immune escape potential from memory T cells directed at non-surface
proteins following infection or vaccination are more difficult to determine. Memory T cell responses may offer a
route to durable immunity where virus evolution leads to spike protein mutations that escape pre-existing
neutralising antibodies. This could occur either by offering more efficient support to activated naïve B cells
responding to the altered spike protein (CD4 T cells), or through direct lysis of SARS-CoV-2 infected cells (CD8 T
cells) [14].
Marcus Lamb, a co-founder and the CEO of the conservative Christian Daystar Television Network who vocally opposed Covid-19 vaccines, has died at 64, weeks
Well, looking on the brightside, if omicron lives up to its' mutated potential, at least those comments will be moot.
Maybe we'll get best case scenario. Maybe it'll be more contagious and evade vaccines, but turn out to be less lethal, so everyone gets it, builds up natural immunities, and not many people die from it. It spreads so rapidly it kicks out all the old strains as the dominant one. then we go back to normal
Well, looking on the brightside, if omicron lives up to its' mutated potential, at least those comments will be moot.
Maybe we'll get best case scenario. Maybe it'll be more contagious and evade vaccines, but turn out to be less lethal, so everyone gets it, builds up natural immunities, and not many people die from it. It spreads so rapidly it kicks out all the old strains as the dominant one. then we go back to normal
Please let this be the way it all shakes out..
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,691
progress....
Scientists find clues to what triggers rare blood clots in AstraZeneca covid vaccine
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Well, looking on the brightside, if omicron lives up to its' mutated potential, at least those comments will be moot.
Maybe we'll get best case scenario. Maybe it'll be more contagious and evade vaccines, but turn out to be less lethal, so everyone gets it, builds up natural immunities, and not many people die from it. It spreads so rapidly it kicks out all the old strains as the dominant one. then we go back to normal
Thus, I'd be back to square 1... pointless to vaccinate kid when vaccinations for her age group becomes possible where I live
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Do you have children? If you don't you can't answer the vaccine question truthfully.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,691
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This anti-vaccine talk is just such garbage it is hard to respond respectfully.
It's like arguing that smoking is good for you and helps your lungs.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
my grandma is 91 and immunocompromised my nieces are too young to be vaccinated my girlfriend is a teacher with a classroom full of sick kids who's parents refuse to have them vaccinated
it's not a choice that someone just makes for their own child it's a choice that affects everyone around that child, and society as a whole
so who is to make that choice for my grandma, my nieces, my girlfriend?
Post edited by Sea on
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
So we're waiting for real world days to (dis)prove this.
You feeling positive that data will prove otherwise?
But everything in this paragraph is speculative.
A pandemic-weary world faces weeks of confusing uncertainty as countries restrict travel and take other steps to halt the newest potentially risky coronavirus mutant before anyone knows just how dangerous omicron really is.
Will it spread even faster than the already extra-contagious delta variant? Does it make people sicker? Does it evade vaccines’ protection or reinfect survivors? There are lots of guesses but little hard evidence as scientists race to find answers amid scrutiny from an anxious public.
“Pretty much the right level of freaking out,” is how Trevor Bedford, who studies evolution of the coronavirus at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, characterized health experts' reactions.
Omicron might not turn out “as bad as we’re perhaps imagining it could be but treating it as such at the moment I think is entirely appropriate,” he said.
Up to now, the world has been slow to react to each coronavirus curveball. This time an early warning from South Africa and Botswana might have offered important head start.
“It’s hard to know: Have we just simply caught up to the reality and now the world is reacting with the appropriate speed as variants emerge?” asked Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.
WHY THE WORRY?
Omicron raised alarm because of its sheer number of mutations, more than prior variants had. Possibly 30 are in a key place, the spike protein that lets the virus attach to human cells.
Scientists recognize a few mutations from earlier variants that were more contagious or a bit resistant to vaccination. But they've never seen this particular constellation of changes.
Most “are really unique to this virus,” said Dr. William Moss of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. “It’s that combination of potential increased transmissibility and ability -- potential ability -- to escape our immune system that has everyone worried.”
“It is a balance,” Moss said. “We want to take this seriously because of the combination of mutations, but we don’t want to panic and we don’t want to overreact as well until we really learn more about this virus.”
SCRAMBLING FOR ANSWERS
Scientists have little data yet on whether omicron causes more severe disease than other variants. And while it already has been diagnosed in numerous countries just days after its discovery was announced, it’s also too soon to know how contagious it is.
The alpha variant that emerged about a year ago was more transmissible than the virus that started the pandemic. Then delta hit, far more contagious than alpha.
It’s unclear how omicron would compete in a place like the U.S. where that strong delta variant is causing more than 99% of current COVID-19 cases, said Louis Mansky, director of the Institute for Molecular Virology at the University of Minnesota.
Even in certain parts of South Africa, a reported jump in omicron-caused cases may not indicate the mutant is more contagious than delta, Lemieux said.
“We really don’t know if omicron is out-competing delta at all or whether it’s become the dominant strain in a few places just due to chance,” he said.
To understand omicron better, scientists are trying to figure out how it emerged. It’s not a descendent of delta. One popular theory is that someone with a severely weakened immune system had a coronavirus infection they couldn’t shake for so long that mutations stacked up.
“This is completely bizarre,” said Bedford, whose says variants that were circulating in summer of 2020 appear to be omicron's closest relatives.
Viruses mutate every time they spread and it’s possible omicron was simmering undetected someplace with poor COVID-19 testing. But Bedford said its sudden appearance is more likely a result of the cat-and-mouse struggle as an immune-compromised body fights a virus that repeatedly changes its spike protein to avoid detection. (Bedford receives funding from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, which also supports The Associated Press Health and Science Department.)
WHAT TO WATCH FOR
Scientists say it may take two to four weeks to get some important answers.
Among the biggest concerns is how much omicron might evade immunity. So far the beta variant has been the biggest challenge to vaccine protection but that mutant fortunately didn’t spread widely.
“It is highly unlikely that this new variant has escaped all antibodies generated following vaccination,” said immunologist E. John Wherry of the University of Pennsylvania.
Vaccine makers and other scientists are setting up lab tests to tell how well antibodies generated by vaccines or prior infection can fight omicron compared to earlier variants. It takes time because first, they must grow samples of so-called “pseudoviruses” that hold the worrisome new mutations.
But that “won’t be the whole story,” Moss said.
The immune system has multiple layers of defense beyond antibodies, including T cells that should help avoid severe disease even if someone experiences a breakthrough infection.
Experts also will be carefully monitoring the prevalence of omicron-caused infections and their severity.
As for treatments, Regeneron says its COVID-19 antibody cocktail may be less effective against omicron although more testing is needed. But there are some antiviral pills in the pipeline, a long-needed new option that shouldn't be affected by omicron's mutations.
WHAT TO DO NOW?
Scientists urge people to take simple precautions as they wait for answers — mask indoors, avoid crowds, get the shots if you are among the 45 million U.S. adults who still haven't been vaccinated — regardless of what variant's circulating.
One thing is clear: Vaccination remains critical. Today’s shots do protect against delta and other versions of the virus that already are rampaging regardless of whether omicron spreads or fizzles. The U.S. and other countries are urging people eligible for boosters not to wait because the extra dose causes a huge burst of virus-fighting antibodies.
“People who are on the fence about whether to get vaccinated should see a great reason to get vaccinated. People who haven’t yet gotten their boosters and are eligible should get their boosters. And then I think we need to let the scientists and the public health practitioners do their work," Lemieux said.
___
The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/omicron-variant
Severity and transmissibility
Preliminary evidence indicates that Omicron may only lead to mild symptoms among most people who contract it.
Experts around the world are monitoring it closely to see if it is more likely to lead to severe illness compared to earlier variants.
As far as vaccine efficacy goes: the worrying data thus far is this basic wiki info. (I will look at the footnotes and read those sources, as I prefer primary info over news reports with political bias.)
Thirty-two mutations affect the spike protein, the main antigenic target of antibodies generated by infections and of many vaccines widely administered. Many of those mutations had not been observed in other strains.[11][12]
...Professor Paul Morgan, immunologist at Cardiff University, also recommends vaccination. Morgan said, "I think a blunting rather than a complete loss [of immunity] is the most likely outcome. The virus can't possibly lose every single epitope on its surface, because if it did that spike protein couldn't work any more. So, while some of the antibodies and T cell clones made against earlier versions of the virus, or against the vaccines may not be effective, there will be others, which will remain effective. (...) If half, or two-thirds, or whatever it is, of the immune response is not going to be effective, and you're left with the residual half, then the more boosted that is the better."
...Many of the mutations to the spike protein are present in other variants of concern and are related to increased infectivity and antibody evasion. Computational modeling suggests that the variant may also escape cell-mediated immunity.[12].
...As of November 2021, it is unknown how the variant will spread in populations with high levels of immunity, it is also unknown if the omicron variant causes a milder or more severe COVID infection.
The EU threat assessment brief from Nov. 26 had this to say: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Implications-emergence-spread-SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.529-variant-concern-Omicron-for-the-EU-EEA-Nov2021.pdf
Based on the mutation profile of Omicron, partial immune escape is likely.... Vaccination Whilst the presence of multiple RBD mutations in the spike protein of Omicron indicate a high likelihood of immune escape from antibody-mediated protection, immune escape potential from memory T cells directed at non-surface proteins following infection or vaccination are more difficult to determine. Memory T cell responses may offer a route to durable immunity where virus evolution leads to spike protein mutations that escape pre-existing neutralising antibodies. This could occur either by offering more efficient support to activated naïve B cells responding to the altered spike protein (CD4 T cells), or through direct lysis of SARS-CoV-2 infected cells (CD8 T cells) [14].
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/02/scientists-trigger-blood-clots-astrazeneca-vaccine/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So waiting could be a good choice...
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
this is child abuse
I mean, it's not actually
but it should be
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It's like arguing that smoking is good for you and helps your lungs.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
my grandma is 91 and immunocompromised
my nieces are too young to be vaccinated
my girlfriend is a teacher with a classroom full of sick kids who's parents refuse to have them vaccinated
it's not a choice that someone just makes for their own child
it's a choice that affects everyone around that child, and society as a whole
so who is to make that choice for my grandma, my nieces, my girlfriend?