Afghanistan

mickeyrat · August 2021

from one of Dan Rather's projects.

https://steady.substack.com/p/a-message-worth-reading-and-pondering?r=ec170&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

Meltdown99 · August 2021

Biden's botched Afghan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/politics/afghanistan-joe-biden-donald-trump-kabul-politics/index.html

Gern Blansten · August 2021

mrussel1 said:

The only people who have a case to criticize Biden on this are the neocons like Cheney, Cotton, and the like. They were against any drawdown. But they've been wrong about everything anyway.

yep....it's crazy

Gern Blansten · August 2021

How do the last of the troops get out? I assume there is some diplomacy going on with the Taliban....kind of a "don't fuck with us or we will be back with a vengeance".

Of course they might be willing to call our bluff.

mickeyrat · August 2021

Gern Blansten said:

How do the last of the troops get out? I assume there is some diplomacy going on with the Taliban....kind of a "don't fuck with us or we will be back with a vengeance".

Of course they might be willing to call our bluff.

dont think so. after fuckstick inked that deal last year , no troops have been harmed.

mrussel1 · August 2021

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

1. How does Stefan Simanowitz know who is in the chopper? That photo was in the Post and it said a Chinook flies around the embassy while diplomatic vehicles exit the compound. Surely Snowden did a little research before representing this, right?

2. What's it matter? Someone tell me why we shouldn't pray that Afghanistan turns into Vietnam post US exit. Please, make that case.

The Vietnam comparisons are about the humiliating exit not Afghanistan's future economic prospects.

This was an inevitability regardless of when we left. It should have been done sooner but this is a dramatic failure stretching across 4 administrations. I see people trying to dose out the blame by President, but that to me is missing the point.

In the short term, the things I don't understand about this exit plan are:

- How did we not secure safe exits and visas for the Afghans who worked with us?
- If the vehicles and weapons we left behind are still operable, what the fuck?
- If we didn't effectively shred/wipe any intelligence, what the fuck?
- Why have we not seen President Biden on camera, even briefly, addressing the public?

2 and 3 are open questions to me. I've read conflicting reports. Now that the lid has been blown off, the stories about where trillions of dollars have gone over the last 20 years will be vomit-inducing.

A failed strategy is going to lead to failed operational execution every time. These are good questions. I know I read the shredding was in process or done. I'm not overly concerned about vehicles and weapons. I think we left those behind in Syria as well. I think the exit visas had been going for a while, and many Afghans are already here.

gimmesometruth27 · August 2021

MAGA 2015: "OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

MAGA 2016: "OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

MAGA 2017: "OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

MAGA 2018: "OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

MAGA 2019: "OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

MAGA 2020: "OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

MAGA 2021: "STAY IN AFGHANISTAN!!!!!"

gimmesometruth27 · August 2021

it is interesting to note how all of the facebook and twitter epidemiologists in my feed have over 3 days become foreign policy experts as well.

mrussel1 · August 2021

gimmesometruth27 said:

it is interesting to note how all of the facebook and twitter epidemiologists in my feed have over 3 days become foreign policy experts as well.

Are these the same ones that understand the inner workings of voting machines and state law?

gimmesometruth27 · August 2021

we all knew this was how it was going to end.

we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

the question is, will the us government learn from this?

we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

Gern Blansten · August 2021

Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane. Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.

tbergs · August 2021

Gern Blansten said:

Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane. Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.

Sad indeed and horrible for all involved who are just puppets in this game of war; the citizens left behind who are now fucked, the pilots who had to just take off no matter what and now have to live with what happened and the military personnel in general who now can truly see how worthless the last 20 years will end up being. The only bright spot are the people who were able to get out or do something during that time before it all went to shit again. War never resolves a problem.

curmudgeoness · August 2021

gimmesometruth27 said:

we all knew this was how it was going to end.

we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

the question is, will the us government learn from this?

we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/

On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

<<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

"Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

And the kicker:

<<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).

mrussel1 · August 2021

curmudgeoness said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

we all knew this was how it was going to end.

we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

the question is, will the us government learn from this?

we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/

On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

<<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

"Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

And the kicker:

<<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).

China will be developing the country, and the Taliban is willing to work with the Chinese, at least for now.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2021

Gern Blansten said:

Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane. Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.

that was fucked up

Ledbetterman10 · August 2021

Biden to address all this at 3:45 p.m.

jerparker20 · August 2021

mrussel1 said:

curmudgeoness said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

we all knew this was how it was going to end.

we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

the question is, will the us government learn from this?

we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/

On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

<<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

"Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

And the kicker:

<<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).

China will be developing the country, and the Taliban is willing to work with the Chinese, at least for now.

Possibly. There is the issue with the Chinese genocide against the Uighurs, who are Muslims that are more closely allied with Afghans.

Then there are the tribal warlords of Afghanistan that are beholden to no one. They may take some money from the Taliban, but as history of the region has shown, will take up arms against anyone for their self interest.

Russia also seems to be lurking in the background as well.

Personally, the situation AFG will more than likely breakdown within a year, and the region will revert to tribal fighting along a game of thrones theme.

Bentleyspop · August 2021

Meltdown99 said:

Biden's botched Afghan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/politics/afghanistan-joe-biden-donald-trump-kabul-politics/index.html

https://twitter.com/theNuzzy/status/1427051039404957697?s=19

mrussel1 · August 2021

jerparker20 said:

mrussel1 said:

curmudgeoness said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

we all knew this was how it was going to end.

we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

the question is, will the us government learn from this?

we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/

On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

<<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

"Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

And the kicker:

<<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).

China will be developing the country, and the Taliban is willing to work with the Chinese, at least for now.

Possibly. There is the issue with the Chinese genocide against the Uighurs, who are Muslims that are more closely allied with Afghans.

Then there are the tribal warlords of Afghanistan that are beholden to no one. They may take some money from the Taliban, but as history of the region has shown, will take up arms against anyone for their self interest.

Russia also seems to be lurking in the background as well.

Personally, the situation AFG will more than likely breakdown within a year, and the region will revert to tribal fighting along a game of thrones theme.

Yeah. China can't be seen as supporting a regime that is sponsoring terrorism either. So it's delicate and I think you're right, I'm not sure it's ready to be federalized under one gov't. I read somewhere recently that the Taliban had been communicating with China, Russia and Iran. So it wants some recognition, but that doesn't mean it can function.

gimmesometruth27 · August 2021

reading maga twitter one thing is clear. the history of afghanistan clearly started about 11 days ago.

Afghanistan

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Biden's botched Afghan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making

Biden's botched Afghan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making

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