The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).
Comments
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I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...0 -
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Here in Ontario it’s been near 15/16 years since the 1st solar/wind turbines started being built…so they are nearing the expected 20 year life cycle…and I have read that the turbines are not easily recycled…and for the amount that this has cost us here in Ontario for this green energy…we still get most of our energy needs from natural gas and nuclear…we have closed all our coal plants…and their has been discussion of Ontario and other provinces investing in another nuclear plant…tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
Give Peas A Chance…0 -
Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.I wish I were more qualified to explain why desert solar panel fields are harmful. I have a cousin who is an environmental lawyer who explained it all in detail. He would be able to give you much better information on that. One thing I will say is that I'm surprised you talk about "unused acreage". Wilderness is unused acreage and surely you value wilderness, right?There is plenty of information out there on why desert solar panels are environmentally unsound. I hope you will take some time to look into it. I'm not going to argue this subject because I feel too strongly about it and don't want to get into it. Please at least consider checking it out."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
When the panels get put out there it's pretty much untouched land still. People aren't running around all over it.brianlux said:tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.I wish I were more qualified to explain why desert solar panel fields are harmful. I have a cousin who is an environmental lawyer who explained it all in detail. He would be able to give you much better information on that. One thing I will say is that I'm surprised you talk about "unused acreage". Wilderness is unused acreage and surely you value wilderness, right?There is plenty of information out there on why desert solar panels are environmentally unsound. I hope you will take some time to look into it. I'm not going to argue this subject because I feel too strongly about it and don't want to get into it. Please at least consider checking it out.
The desert is a haven for people to play in out where I lived.
We had more rabbits than people so if walking on the ground disrupts things then them rabbits are tearing shit up.0 -
Deserts are amazing, beautiful and fragile ecosystems that can take a really long time to recover from perturbations, if they ever do. The plant and animal life is adapted to living on the edge of sustainability and there is little reserve to allow for changes. While I can certainly see the appeal of making use of what appears to be “unused” and available land, there will be major impacts that remain even if the solar panels were removed.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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I do understand the fragility of the landscape. It does return to what it was if you leave it alone. Messing with the vegetation is a big no no.oftenreading said:Deserts are amazing, beautiful and fragile ecosystems that can take a really long time to recover from perturbations, if they ever do. The plant and animal life is adapted to living on the edge of sustainability and there is little reserve to allow for changes. While I can certainly see the appeal of making use of what appears to be “unused” and available land, there will be major impacts that remain even if the solar panels were removed.
Every abandoned structure or even new ones left alone will attract desert wildlife that wasn't once there.
Abuse is where the problem lies.
I wish I could take you all on some trips out to the Mojave and show you some of the neat things out there.
After a rain or flood is when it gets really interesting.0 -
its not zero recyclable. its very little is cost effective to recycle. big difference.tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Not really. If it isn't cost effective to recycle then you're not so in the landfill it goes.mickeyrat said:
its not zero recyclable. its very little is cost effective to recycle. big difference.tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
Not really. If it isn't cost effective to recycle then you're not so in the landfill it goes.mickeyrat said:
its not zero recyclable. its very little is cost effective to recycle. big difference.tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.which doesnt equate to cant be recycled.again, big difference between cant and wont._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
In that article it says it costs $20-$30 to recycle the panel and you get $1-$2 for a return on that. That's not good. I'm not taking up that loss if I don't have to as a corporation.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Not really. If it isn't cost effective to recycle then you're not so in the landfill it goes.mickeyrat said:
its not zero recyclable. its very little is cost effective to recycle. big difference.tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.which doesnt equate to cant be recycled.again, big difference between cant and wont.
The article also mentions holding solar companies responsible for their product. I like that idea. Make them develop something that has value even after it's intended use.0 -
I thought about this more last night and the areas I had in my mind were pretty much uninhabited and very few humans go to these areas so regeneration happens.brianlux said:tempo_n_groove said:
I remember you bringing up the deserts and the solar panels. I disagree with that a bunch and I wish Kunstler would go and revisit that and see if his theories prove true.brianlux said:Meltdown99 said:tempo_n_groove said:
I'm curious about this article as to whom is ripping out their solar panels? Everyone I know that has them "rented" them from the power companies and signed a lease for 20 years or so. That big incentive was 5 years ago so there are at least another 15 for them.Meltdown99 said:
It's a shame that there isn't more recyclable parts on them. Go figure a "green" source of energy is a mass polluter when it's lifespan is over...
James Howard Kunstler is an author and commentator who I followed for several years. I gave up following him when he started going into some rather dubious political directions, but earlier, when his focus was energy, he really went out of his way to gather good information and present it in a clear and logical manner (as in his book, The Long Emergency). One of the things he explained very clearly were the obvious short coming of solar energy (and this was before some of the very solid evidence that solar fields are wrecking havoc on fragile desert ecosystems). His words were not headed and many well-intentioned folks seeking to maintain a comfortable life style in a manner they thought was environmentally friendly dove into solar power with, at least to a degree, some blinders on. What many do not get, or refuse to accept, is that in a world with 7.9 (give or take) billion people, more and more of us living like royalty and expecting a "green" planet is, as yet at least, not at all feasible.
The desert, Mojave for example has millions and millions of unused acreage where solar takes up a very small area of it.
What I do find alarming is that the solar panels have zero recyclable properties.
I do remember a little snippet in Rolling Stone magazine in their "For us/Against us" page and in the Against us side it talked about George W removing the solar panels from when Carter was president. It forgot to mention that he replaced them with brand new panels and a solar water heaters.I wish I were more qualified to explain why desert solar panel fields are harmful. I have a cousin who is an environmental lawyer who explained it all in detail. He would be able to give you much better information on that. One thing I will say is that I'm surprised you talk about "unused acreage". Wilderness is unused acreage and surely you value wilderness, right?There is plenty of information out there on why desert solar panels are environmentally unsound. I hope you will take some time to look into it. I'm not going to argue this subject because I feel too strongly about it and don't want to get into it. Please at least consider checking it out.
Thinking about the more popular areas like Jaw bone canyon, Boron and Randsburgh, these areas are not rejuvenating as quickly because of the amount of people and mining done in them.
I should have been clearer on this.0 -
Lytton, BC set a Canadian Record at 114 degrees on Sunday…wow…that is hot 🥵. BC is having a heatwave…
Give Peas A Chance…0 -
This is pretty crazy,We had a run of longer/hotter summers, then the last two years were more of a return to normal (more mild). We didn't even have campfire bans the last 2 years. Now summer is back with a vengeance.This is rough. I've never seen it this hot on Vancouver Island ever. The only places I've been too this hot are Vegas in the summer and The Gorge in the summer.0
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Most miserable heat I've been in wasn't in any desert, it was in Iowa. 110 degrees with humidity. I would take Iraq's summer any day over that crap.0
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Arizona in August and 113 degrees…
get used to the heat…it will become normal soon.
I live in Southern, Ontario and our summers are hotter and more humid for longer periods…
in a couple years I’ll be planting a palm tree 🌴 or two. Lol.
Give Peas A Chance…0 -
I worked in AZ, worked in the Mojave desert, worked in Iraq, worked in all the south coastal states too.Meltdown99 said:Arizona in August and 113 degrees…
get used to the heat…it will become normal soon.
I live in Southern, Ontario and our summers are hotter and more humid for longer periods…
in a couple years I’ll be planting a palm tree 🌴 or two. Lol.
Iowa...
Worked through a heat wave years ago in Cali. Average was 117 for 2 weeks. When the water truck came by to keep the dust down we would put our hardhats out to fill them up. Guy brought in an egg and cooked it on the steel, lol.0 -
70s and 80s and rainy here in TX all week
. Just got done with a pretty warm couple of weeks, so this is wonderful! 0
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