Entire Bull Moose store staff is fired.

brianlux · May 2021

Maybe not the best move on their part. I can't say for sure at this point, but I may be re-thinking ordering here again.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/bull-moose-store-fires-all-workers-after-dispute-over-mask-policy-according-to-former-employees/97-3b5f826c-3eb1-442e-b165-ccda2aad6251

https://luke.substack.com/p/we-finally-started-bringing-our-concerns

Hobbes · May 2021

Something is rotten in the state of New Hampshire.

Bull Moose management attempt to mask a larger issue. Record store workers of the world unite.

And what's the deal with the fucked up customers?

For those that have concerns: You can also e-mail us at bullmoosemusic@gmail.com or leave a message at 1-877-464-5513.

Meltdown99 · May 2021

I’d say that they were fired for talking to organized labour…

brianlux · May 2021

Meltdown99 said:

I’d say that they were fired for talking to organized labour…

Evidently, that is part of the situation. But when did talking to someone become a crime? And the ENTIRE staff was fired. It's just wrong. Bull Moose will get no more of my business.

tbergs · May 2021

So many questions after reading this. Have people not had the opportunity to get vaccinated? I mean, masks are great, but vaccine better. It seems weird on the managment side to fire employees, but also weird that employees want to continue to require masks if they are vaccinated. Obviously it would still be optional, but I understand not wanting to keep it mandatory if vaccination availability has reached the masses.

Smellyman · May 2021

tbergs said:

So many questions after reading this. Have people not had the opportunity to get vaccinated? I mean, masks are great, but vaccine better. It seems weird on the managment side to fire employees, but also weird that employees want to continue to require masks if they are vaccinated. Obviously it would still be optional, but I understand not wanting to keep it mandatory if vaccination availability has reached the masses.

I am sure they wanted the throngs of Covid Mouth Breathers to be required to wear a mask in the stores.

Some people care about the good of others too

dankind · May 2021

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've worked in/managed independent book/record shops such as Bull Moose, and I've worked in corporate book/record shops such as Tower Records. The latter always managed to look after their employees better. There are protocols in place. Independent shops, you're basically left with navigating your way around the business owners' moods along with your actual job.

Hopefully, the pandemic exposed (and continues to expose) just how shitty employees for small business owners have it and just how selfish and deplorable their bosses are.

OnWis97 · May 2021

tbergs said:

So many questions after reading this. Have people not had the opportunity to get vaccinated? I mean, masks are great, but vaccine better. It seems weird on the managment side to fire employees, but also weird that employees want to continue to require masks if they are vaccinated. Obviously it would still be optional, but I understand not wanting to keep it mandatory if vaccination availability has reached the masses.

Actually, I don’t think everyone has had the opportunity for dose 2 to take full effect and I think the CDC got several weeks ahead of itself.

But eventually, we’ll be at that point. Most people want to ditch the masks as soon as possible. But given how folks are still getting vaccinated and how so many refuse to, I can certainly sympathize with the staff.

One of the best things about government mandates was that stores, etc. didn’t have to make these choices. They could just blame the state. And some states decided it was time to be “normal” right when the CDC made its announcement. Now a shop like this is between its staff and the masses. As I said, this was going to happen eventually but it’s too early in my opinion.

For my part, I am vaxed and will wear a mask because it can’t hurt and could help. And I will prefer to patronize stores that continue to require masks and who I believe are looking out for their employees. And I sure as hell am not going to patronize places this quick to fire staff over this (or over talk of organization).

mickeyrat · May 2021

one of my spots posted this

F Me In The Brain · May 2021

Retailers are in a tough spot. They had policies throughout much of the pandemic requiring masks and found it almost possible to enforce. Asking the poor bastards working there to try and take on some douchestick anti-masker for minimum wage is crazy. Posting guards/security is also crazy...and we saw shootings happen because...well, this is America and FreeDumb and all of that.

I can see the people who run the stores eager as hell to get rid of the mask policies if for no reason other than to try and reduce the levels of conflict in their locations.

That all being stated, I think protecting the workers should be a priority and masks should still be required. (You can still transmit this thing even if fully vaxxed...we know many anti-vaxxers will go w/o masks anyway, as they did before....and many employees could live with people who do not have the vaccine yet, like small kids or people with health issues.)

Tough spot for the companies to be in, though. I can understand them wanting to just do away with the masks as soon as the local govts made that an option for them.

As far as firing all of your workers? Yeah, that is sending a pretty tough message given who the main target of indie record stores are likely to be. If they sold guns and ammo for killing other Amercians this would be a no-doubt move and win them more clients.

Weston1283 · May 2021

F Me In The Brain said:

Retailers are in a tough spot. They had policies throughout much of the pandemic requiring masks and found it almost possible to enforce. Asking the poor bastards working there to try and take on some douchestick anti-masker for minimum wage is crazy. Posting guards/security is also crazy...and we saw shootings happen because...well, this is America and FreeDumb and all of that.
I can see the people who run the stores eager as hell to get rid of the mask policies if for no reason other than to try and reduce the levels of conflict in their locations.

That all being stated, I think protecting the workers should be a priority and masks should still be required. (You can still transmit this thing even if fully vaxxed...we know many anti-vaxxers will go w/o masks anyway, as they did before....and many employees could live with people who do not have the vaccine yet, like small kids or people with health issues.)

Tough spot for the companies to be in, though. I can understand them wanting to just do away with the masks as soon as the local govts made that an option for them.

As far as firing all of your workers? Yeah, that is sending a pretty tough message given who the main target of indie record stores are likely to be. If they sold guns and ammo for killing other Amercians this would be a no-doubt move and win them more clients.

I agree, I was thinking about how businesses will be in a tough spot. The government tells you masks are optional, and your customers will be split in thinking they should have to still wear one or not still wear one.

I think if I'm a business owner, I just continue to follow the local and state restrictions and just use that as the crutch/source of reasoning if anyone tries to question the decision

Poncier · May 2021

tbergs said:

So many questions after reading this. Have people not had the opportunity to get vaccinated? I mean, masks are great, but vaccine better. It seems weird on the managment side to fire employees, but also weird that employees want to continue to require masks if they are vaccinated. Obviously it would still be optional, but I understand not wanting to keep it mandatory if vaccination availability has reached the masses.

New Hampshire has ben one of the leading states getting their folks vaccinated. They opened up eligibility to everyone 16 and up back on April 2. So there has been plenty of opportunity, 7 weeks worth, so not a particularly valid excuse in this case. Any of the employees who hadn't yet received the vaccine have only themselves to look at for that.
I don't think this story really has to do with masks and Covid, it is definitely about nipping a possible organizing of employees in the bud.

Matts3221 · May 2021

So living in NH we are in the top of the list over 70% have gotten their first shot and 46.1% are fully vaccinated. Getting it done is very simply here and as mentioned above everyone got opened to it as of April 2nd , my sister was able to go on April 2nd and get a same day appointment.

It is tricky as I just got back from vacation and we have an honor system on wear a mask if you are fully vaccinated and please put one on if not. I am fully done but still put a mask on when someone comes into my office ( other than two employees whom are also fully vaccinated ) although a credit union is way different than a retail music story.

Since today everyone whom has come in has worn a mask as they just want too still. So I get being nervous with the public but again I am fully vaccinated.

I feel like this has to be more than a mask issues and sadly I will not go to Bull Moose anymore and that sucks because that place rules. Well used to before they laid off the entire store.

If a business says wear a mask I wear one and to be honest if it says I don't have to wear one I still do.

There has to be more to this.

tempo_n_groove · May 2021

A few things on this. A class action "wrongful termination" suit could be brought up possibly.

If they (employees) were sending angry emails to their higherups that could be viewed as insubordination though and then the lawsuit is moot.

Lastly, the choice of the store to lift a mask ban shouldn't mean that an employee has to not wear one. The mask is supposed to prevent your own germs from spreading though.

brianlux · May 2021

dankind said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've worked in/managed independent book/record shops such as Bull Moose, and I've worked in corporate book/record shops such as Tower Records. The latter always managed to look after their employees better. There are protocols in place. Independent shops, you're basically left with navigating your way around the business owners' moods along with your actual job.

Hopefully, the pandemic exposed (and continues to expose) just how shitty employees for small business owners have it and just how selfish and deplorable their bosses are.

That's very unfortunate. It's too bad more small business owners aren't like my wife and her business partner. They often put their employees before themselves. In tough times, they both took pay cuts so their employees could continue to work. They've cooked and taken food to employees when they've been sick and have been very flexible and generous when they've been in need. In 38 years they've never had one disgruntled employee.

dankind · May 2021

brianlux said:

dankind said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've worked in/managed independent book/record shops such as Bull Moose, and I've worked in corporate book/record shops such as Tower Records. The latter always managed to look after their employees better. There are protocols in place. Independent shops, you're basically left with navigating your way around the business owners' moods along with your actual job.

Hopefully, the pandemic exposed (and continues to expose) just how shitty employees for small business owners have it and just how selfish and deplorable their bosses are.

That's very unfortunate. It's too bad more small business owners aren't like my wife and her business partner. They often put their employees before themselves. In tough times, they both took pay cuts so their employees could continue to work. They've cooked and taken food to employees when they've been sick and have been very flexible and generous when they've been in need. In 38 years they've never had one disgruntled employee.

There was one owner who was an absolute gem. But I was his only employee.

Every other small business I've worked at basically begat a workplace support group for dealing with the owners.

And one store had a huge issue with the cash register folks stealing money from the owners, and it took forever for someone to report it because as absolutely morally wrong as it was, employees were not so sure to jump to that conclusion based on how they were treated by said ripped-off owners.

brianlux · May 2021

dankind said:

brianlux said:

dankind said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've worked in/managed independent book/record shops such as Bull Moose, and I've worked in corporate book/record shops such as Tower Records. The latter always managed to look after their employees better. There are protocols in place. Independent shops, you're basically left with navigating your way around the business owners' moods along with your actual job.

Hopefully, the pandemic exposed (and continues to expose) just how shitty employees for small business owners have it and just how selfish and deplorable their bosses are.

That's very unfortunate. It's too bad more small business owners aren't like my wife and her business partner. They often put their employees before themselves. In tough times, they both took pay cuts so their employees could continue to work. They've cooked and taken food to employees when they've been sick and have been very flexible and generous when they've been in need. In 38 years they've never had one disgruntled employee.

There was one owner who was an absolute gem. But I was his only employee.

Every other small business I've worked at basically begat a workplace support group for dealing with the owners.

And one store had a huge issue with the cash register folks stealing money from the owners, and it took forever for someone to report it because as absolutely morally wrong as it was, employees were not so sure to jump to that conclusion based on how they were treated by said ripped-off owners.

Business owners who do not treat their employees well are despicable creatures. I've only ever worked for one that was really bad- way back in my high school years. I didn't stay long there.

tbergs · May 2021

dankind said:

brianlux said:

dankind said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've worked in/managed independent book/record shops such as Bull Moose, and I've worked in corporate book/record shops such as Tower Records. The latter always managed to look after their employees better. There are protocols in place. Independent shops, you're basically left with navigating your way around the business owners' moods along with your actual job.

Hopefully, the pandemic exposed (and continues to expose) just how shitty employees for small business owners have it and just how selfish and deplorable their bosses are.

That's very unfortunate. It's too bad more small business owners aren't like my wife and her business partner. They often put their employees before themselves. In tough times, they both took pay cuts so their employees could continue to work. They've cooked and taken food to employees when they've been sick and have been very flexible and generous when they've been in need. In 38 years they've never had one disgruntled employee.

There was one owner who was an absolute gem. But I was his only employee.

Every other small business I've worked at basically begat a workplace support group for dealing with the owners.

And one store had a huge issue with the cash register folks stealing money from the owners, and it took forever for someone to report it because as absolutely morally wrong as it was, employees were not so sure to jump to that conclusion based on how they were treated by said ripped-off owners.

I don't know, if you have a bad boss or the job sucks, you leave, not justify your actions by claiming it's owed to you because of poor management. I honestly can't stand people who behave in that way because they feel they've been wronged. I worked for a mom and pop grocery store in high school and the management was pretty pathetic, but they also hired shitty workers so I guess they all deserved each other.

I think there is more to the Bull Moose situation. Not saying that justifies everyone being fired, but I think the headline about it being all over masking policies was a good way to draw attention at a time when that's a hot ticket controversy.

dankind · May 2021

tbergs said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

dankind said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've worked in/managed independent book/record shops such as Bull Moose, and I've worked in corporate book/record shops such as Tower Records. The latter always managed to look after their employees better. There are protocols in place. Independent shops, you're basically left with navigating your way around the business owners' moods along with your actual job.

Hopefully, the pandemic exposed (and continues to expose) just how shitty employees for small business owners have it and just how selfish and deplorable their bosses are.

That's very unfortunate. It's too bad more small business owners aren't like my wife and her business partner. They often put their employees before themselves. In tough times, they both took pay cuts so their employees could continue to work. They've cooked and taken food to employees when they've been sick and have been very flexible and generous when they've been in need. In 38 years they've never had one disgruntled employee.

There was one owner who was an absolute gem. But I was his only employee.

Every other small business I've worked at basically begat a workplace support group for dealing with the owners.

And one store had a huge issue with the cash register folks stealing money from the owners, and it took forever for someone to report it because as absolutely morally wrong as it was, employees were not so sure to jump to that conclusion based on how they were treated by said ripped-off owners.

I don't know, if you have a bad boss or the job sucks, you leave, not justify your actions by claiming it's owed to you because of poor management. I honestly can't stand people who behave in that way because they feel they've been wronged. I worked for a mom and pop grocery store in high school and the management was pretty pathetic, but they also hired shitty workers so I guess they all deserved each other.

I think there is more to the Bull Moose situation. Not saying that justifies everyone being fired, but I think the headline about it being all over masking policies was a good way to draw attention at a time when that's a hot ticket controversy.

The only angle I can see other than the one that sells clicks (read: Covid! Covid! Covid!) is that their employees were organizing. And that's always been a terrible thing that could lead to discussions regarding living wages, PTO, healthcare coverage, etc.

You know, things small business owners generally fail to provide for their employees.

RoleModelsinBlood31 · May 2021

I removed our rules a week ago Friday, 5/14. Put a sign up that said “masks are appreciated but no longer required.” All our staff is still masked up as well as vaccinated but we don’t worry about what the public wants or doesn’t want anymore- it became way too much to expect my staff to have to police the situation and often ended up in insane arguments with idiots. If they don’t want to come in they call us and get curbside, or they order through a delivery service. If they want to wear a mask, they wear it. No big deal.

I’ve heard about 5 compliments based on the rule each day since I posted it, folks are genuinely very pleased to be able to come in without it, and those who are wearing one completely understand and are still happy, so it has worked out really well.

cant believe bull moose would fire their staff, pretty screwed up. I hope it’s not because of masks though but even worse if it is.

mace1229 · May 2021

brianlux said:

Maybe not the best move on their part. I can't say for sure at this point, but I may be re-thinking ordering here again.
https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/bull-moose-store-fires-all-workers-after-dispute-over-mask-policy-according-to-former-employees/97-3b5f826c-3eb1-442e-b165-ccda2aad6251

https://luke.substack.com/p/we-finally-started-bringing-our-concerns

If this is true, that's a total douche move and I wont be sad if they go out of business. But it doesn't all make sense to me. Like possibly something bigger behind the scene that the employees are not aware of.
Some employees were unhappy with the mask changes and complained about it, some complained in the work email. If you're annoyed at a couple of employees it doesn't make sense to fire all 20 and be closed indefinitely. Handle the ones misusing the email or causing problems.
Mask policy updated and employees were angry. Store closed early Thursday, mass termination email Friday. Still closed today without signs of reopening. Either that is the worst business decision by any owner, or there was something else going on.

Entire Bull Moose store staff is fired.

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