GOP
Comments
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E-verify! That was it! We were required to do that on every federal project we did.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?actually signed? not sure about that.I do know requirement for e-verify was pushed back on hard and eventually dropped to voluntary.0 -
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?0 -
No it sure if it’s still the case, but raids on house trailers full of illegals(like a dozen in a trailer fit for 1 or 2) seemed like a regular occurrence when I was working on hog farms and several years after. We’d get coworkers recruited to fill in for emergency duty when another location was basically staffed by one of those “families” that skipped down or were arrested.0
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I don't know about other states, here in NY that is the going rate.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
Does ICE still raid homes?0 -
They did during the Trump admin. I don't know if they have in the last two months.tempo_n_groove said:
I don't know about other states, here in NY that is the going rate.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
Does ICE still raid homes?0 -
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?0 -
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?0 -
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
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Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?0 -
In house unless the contract requires otherwise. We currently have 24 projects going on between Texas and Oklahoma in 16 cities. Turnover in the construction industry is insane so the combination of methods you use to fill positions are not justifiable for us. There are undoubtedly businesses who knowingly cheat the system, but I do not think they are as prevalent as you seem to.mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
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Back in the late '90's/early 2000's I worked in the bar/restaurant business in NYC. Illegal immigrants did, and still do, comprise a huge part of the work force. That's why those ICE raids were always just for show. They could have walked into every restaurant in the city and deported half the staff but that would have brought the industry to its knees, so no chance they were about to do that.
Having said that, most of the illegals I knew worked like dogs- 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts in the kitchen.
Also, in the bar business there were lots (not millions, though) of Irish who were illegal.0 -
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.0 -
the chinesetempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
They are tight but not like the two I mentioned. The Chinese seem to flourish with indentured servitude whereas the Irish and Vietnamese really do have each others back.mickeyrat said:
the chinesetempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
Here in NY you have vans that go and pick people up from work and drop them off somewhere. 60 minutes or Vice did a special on this. Now I look for the vans.0 -
I don't doubt that it's easy to get fake documents, but those fake documents are worthless if a business spends the less than $50 to do a national background and social security check. The illegal would have had to done full out identify theft in order to pass a check, and that's just not very likely.tempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
If a business were really concerned about hiring illegals, they could avoid doing so by conducting proper background checks and not picking up people at the Home Depot.0 -
Again, did you read my story about the 42 people whom were using identities of dead people? They worked for quite a while until they did the E-verify then they weren't working anymore.mrussel1 said:
I don't doubt that it's easy to get fake documents, but those fake documents are worthless if a business spends the less than $50 to do a national background and social security check. The illegal would have had to done full out identify theft in order to pass a check, and that's just not very likely.tempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
If a business were really concerned about hiring illegals, they could avoid doing so by conducting proper background checks and not picking up people at the Home Depot.
You have a great point in doing thorough background checks. For everyday manual labor this isn't going on unless you are on federal projects or MTA/PA jobs here in NY.0 -
Didn't you say that the 42 people had their socials come back as deceased? That tells me that the background check process worked. The mistake was hiring people before the verification was completed.tempo_n_groove said:
Again, did you read my story about the 42 people whom were using identities of dead people? They worked for quite a while until they did the E-verify then they weren't working anymore.mrussel1 said:
I don't doubt that it's easy to get fake documents, but those fake documents are worthless if a business spends the less than $50 to do a national background and social security check. The illegal would have had to done full out identify theft in order to pass a check, and that's just not very likely.tempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
If a business were really concerned about hiring illegals, they could avoid doing so by conducting proper background checks and not picking up people at the Home Depot.
You have a great point in doing thorough background checks. For everyday manual labor this isn't going on unless you are on federal projects or MTA/PA jobs here in NY.0 -
If our government were really concerned about illegals they could do more than use small businesses to police for them and fund their failed programs. I am not concerned with unknowingly hiring illegals, I am concerned that if it happens I have done so by the law. There was a time when E-Verify seemed like it may be the future of hiring as a contractor, but after seeing the implications of trying to find Americans who will fill the jobs that immigrants do it quickly stopped becoming a requirement. You have our government who does a terrible job of keeping illegals out and the illegals who are knowingly breaking the law, but lets pass the buck onto small businesses. Makes perfect sense...mrussel1 said:
I don't doubt that it's easy to get fake documents, but those fake documents are worthless if a business spends the less than $50 to do a national background and social security check. The illegal would have had to done full out identify theft in order to pass a check, and that's just not very likely.tempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
If a business were really concerned about hiring illegals, they could avoid doing so by conducting proper background checks and not picking up people at the Home Depot.
0 -
FiveBelow said:
If our government were really concerned about illegals they could do more than use small businesses to police for them and fund their failed programs. I am not concerned with unknowingly hiring illegals, I am concerned that if it happens I have done so by the law. There was a time when E-Verify seemed like it may be the future of hiring as a contractor, but after seeing the implications of trying to find Americans who will fill the jobs that immigrants do it quickly stopped becoming a requirement. You have our government who does a terrible job of keeping illegals out and the illegals who are knowingly breaking the law, but lets pass the buck onto small businesses. Makes perfect sense...mrussel1 said:
I don't doubt that it's easy to get fake documents, but those fake documents are worthless if a business spends the less than $50 to do a national background and social security check. The illegal would have had to done full out identify theft in order to pass a check, and that's just not very likely.tempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
If a business were really concerned about hiring illegals, they could avoid doing so by conducting proper background checks and not picking up people at the Home Depot.
businesses weren't going to be told E-Verify was mandatory.....
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
As a contractor we have had multiple projects that E-Verify was mandatory on, written into the contract. Government projects obviously try to save face by making sure no illegals are hired and many independent school districts were starting to require it as well. I have only had 1 contract in the last 3 years requiring E-Verify, but prior to that it was looking like it would become the norm.mickeyrat said:FiveBelow said:
If our government were really concerned about illegals they could do more than use small businesses to police for them and fund their failed programs. I am not concerned with unknowingly hiring illegals, I am concerned that if it happens I have done so by the law. There was a time when E-Verify seemed like it may be the future of hiring as a contractor, but after seeing the implications of trying to find Americans who will fill the jobs that immigrants do it quickly stopped becoming a requirement. You have our government who does a terrible job of keeping illegals out and the illegals who are knowingly breaking the law, but lets pass the buck onto small businesses. Makes perfect sense...mrussel1 said:
I don't doubt that it's easy to get fake documents, but those fake documents are worthless if a business spends the less than $50 to do a national background and social security check. The illegal would have had to done full out identify theft in order to pass a check, and that's just not very likely.tempo_n_groove said:
I think you would be very surprised on how easy it is to obtain fake documents. Did you read my story about the 42 people w false documents working on a federal penitentiary?mrussel1 said:
Are you saying you are reviewing cards, not using a third party to do your national checks?FiveBelow said:
Yeah that is it. Not sure if you have ever seen a legit fake ID or SS card, there is no noticeable difference whatsoever. Add to that Permanent Resident cards which are a List A on the I9 and constitute as the only form of identification required. I am willing to bet you have never seen one with the sleuth operation you are running. Certain contracts require background checks and fingerprinting, when they come in we are required to submit them.mrussel1 said:
If you are hiring people with fake IDs, your HR is either clueless or intentionally looking the other way. We do I9, background check, social verification and fingerprinting.FiveBelow said:
We got raided by ICE in 2017. Had to pay penalties on a couple of employees who our payroll department failed to obtain copies of identification on or lost them in the shuffle. For the employees listed by ICE who were not legal we were not penalized as long as we had copies of the identification they provided us and let them go. The ease of entering the country and obtaining false documents in an effort to make 10x the money is the biggest draw, not the businesses who you think are enabling the issue. We sent the government money for unknowingly hiring people who entered illegally and obtained illegal documents, who’s responsibility is it to keep this from happening? Obviously we could have avoided any penalty had those copies been obtained, but that is bound to happen when you have over 300 new hires a year.mrussel1 said:
I doubt it went away, but I"m curious why ICE is raiding homes rather than the businesses that are drawing them here.tempo_n_groove said:
Why is it interesting? Information is key.mrussel1 said:
Interesting that you know the going rate. But it's irrelevant if they send the money back or not. I'm just not buying "most". Either way, the only reason it's happening is because criminal business owners are willing to pay under the table to undocumented workers, and then not paying their fair share of taxes.tempo_n_groove said:
They make $150 a day standing outside of Homedepot when they do work. The others that have the kitchen jobs and landscaping jobs get paid well too. They aren't making under minimum wage.mrussel1 said:
That doesn't pass the sniff test. An undocumented worker will likely be working for less than minimum wage, or dirt cheap. For them to be able to live here but still send "most" of their money back to Mexico/Central America doesn't seem possible.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes and the property they rent has taxes but it's not the same. Local city and state taxes miss out on this.mrussel1 said:
They pay sales taxes... and the fault for them getting paid under the table is on their employers, who enable the law breaking and break the law themselves. They are also not paying taxes required. Seems to me the undocumented immigrants are no worse, or even 'less worse'. At least we can understand why they want to work and are working.tempo_n_groove said:
What about the ones that work for cash that don't pay taxes?
This happens in pretty much every restaurant and landscaping business here in NY. I remember reading an article where the workers mailed most of their money back home and none of it was ever spent here.
But again, it's about who is paying them. They would not be drawn here if they could not work under the table.
You mention business'. Wasn't a law signed by Bush Dubya that penalized a company if they got caught hiring undocumented workers? Did that go away?
Is $150 the nationwide rate, or just the rate where you live?
In Cali early 90's I knew people with fake documents and was surprised they could enter back in the country with them but they did.
Lastly most construction jobs that aren't public works don't do much vetting. I have a SWAC card that did some serious deep vetting but not everyone is doing that.
Someone mentioned the Irish. Besides them and the Vietnamese I have never seen tighter groups that look out for each other.
If a business were really concerned about hiring illegals, they could avoid doing so by conducting proper background checks and not picking up people at the Home Depot.
businesses weren't going to be told E-Verify was mandatory.....
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