The coronavirus
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you'd think when developing this website forum that they'd make it impossible to alter a quoted post.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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Great post @often@oftenreadingoftenreading said:In the weeks and months after people get vaccinated we will indeed see people die. Some will die to myocardial infarcts, some will die of strokes, some of pulmonary emboli, some of pneumonia, some of cancer, and some of dementia. Some will also die of motorvehicle crashes, gunshot wounds, and food poisoning. In addition, some people will get married, some will get divorced, some will change job and some will move house. You might even get a few who write a book or record a song. That's because all of these things happen as life goes on - the pandemic doesn't make them stop, and vaccination doesn't make them stop.
It's just as silly to argue that vaccination is causing novels to happen as it is to argue that it's causing all of the deaths that occur afterward.
We have data from tens of thousands of people in controlled trials, and now we are gathering data from millions of people. At this point the data do not show an increased risk of death related to vaccination.
Correlation is not causation.
Now, when I TAKE YOUR POST and substitute "coronavirus" for "vaccinated" (or some variant thereof) you absolutely nailed what I was trying to say.
"In the weeks and months after people get coronavirus we will indeed see people die. Some will die to myocardial infarcts, some will die of strokes, some of pulmonary emboli, some of pneumonia, some of cancer, and some of dementia. Some will also die of motorvehicle crashes, gunshot wounds, and food poisoning. In addition, some people will get married, some will get divorced, some will change job and some will move house. You might even get a few who write a book or record a song. That's because all of these things happen as life goes on - the pandemic doesn't make them stop, and coronavirus doesn't make them stop.
It's just as silly to argue that coronavirus is causing novels to happen as it is to argue that it's causing all of the deaths that occur afterward.
We have data from tens of thousands of people in controlled trials, and now we are gathering data from millions of people. At this point the data do not show an increased risk of death related to coronavirus.
Correlation is not causation."
If we are counting covid deaths one way, why can we not vaccine deaths the same?0 -
Please explain California to me. The "science" does not suggest they should open back up. Why are they?tbergs said:This is insane. Arguing with a person who a few days ago suggested that we can end this now that Biden is elected is not worth the time. After a year of this shit, nothing is going to change your warped view now. Understandable to be unsure back in April last year, but now is just ignoring reality. But sure, the democratic hoax continues!
And for the record, I consider myself a moderate on a lot of things, left leaning on some and right on the rest. As many "right wing", "Q", or 'Trumpers" that I read on twitter, I search out the Andy Slavitts, Eric Fiegl-Ding, and the likes as well. None of anything I am saying does not come from one point of view, however on this issue I guess I align with all the conspiracy theorists. I am begging of y'all, change my mind..0 -
I'm more of an N'SYNC guy myself.HughFreakingDillon said:you'd think when developing this website forum that they'd make it impossible to alter a quoted post. By the way, I love the Backstreet Boys.
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Haha!
^Love how you did that edit! I'm more of a Spice Girl fan because I like Scary Spice's boots that have a hole in them!Post edited by Spunkie onI was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
I prefer Nickleback...Give Peas A Chance…0
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The ''news''..do you trust them??dankind said:Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..0 -
AP, Reuters, AFP.23scidoo said:
The ''news''..do you trust them??dankind said:
Everything else is commentary.I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
gvn2fly1421 said:
Care to explain how my post is wrong?oftenreading said:
Also, no. You seem to have no knowledge of infectious diseases.gvn2fly1421 said:
This is PERFECT! Now, substitute "coronavirus" for "vaccinated" and you prove my point as far as counting Covid deaths. If we count covid deaths one way, it is only fair to count vax deaths the same way.
If I were to spend my time countering every incorrect, false or misleading post on this forum, it would be a full time job, and a poorly paid one at that.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Just so you're aware, I've seen people banned over doing that. the mods don't like it (I'm not reporting you, or threatening you, just letting you know)mace1229 said:
I'm more of an N'SYNC guy myself.HughFreakingDillon said:you'd think when developing this website forum that they'd make it impossible to alter a quoted post. By the way, I love the Backstreet Boys.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
So now this thread has a rabbit hole that a poster is trying to get folks to follow him into! loljesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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CNN brass caught onto the fact that people like Tucker and Hannity create massive ratings and therefore, cash. That's why CNN's primetime has very little to do with actual reporting anymore. It's all, as dankind said, commentators. Chris Cuomo, Keilar (although she might still be in the afternoon), and Don Lemon. all unwatchable.Spiritual_Chaos said:By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
One is a pandemic, the other is a cure to a pandemic not proven to cause any of the byproducts you're referring to. In addition - one causes burdens on health care systems, health care workers, the econoomy, unprecedented logistical overhead, costly precautions for most industries, and the other relieves these same burdens.gvn2fly1421 said:
Great post @often@oftenreadingoftenreading said:In the weeks and months after people get vaccinated we will indeed see people die. Some will die to myocardial infarcts, some will die of strokes, some of pulmonary emboli, some of pneumonia, some of cancer, and some of dementia. Some will also die of motorvehicle crashes, gunshot wounds, and food poisoning. In addition, some people will get married, some will get divorced, some will change job and some will move house. You might even get a few who write a book or record a song. That's because all of these things happen as life goes on - the pandemic doesn't make them stop, and vaccination doesn't make them stop.
It's just as silly to argue that vaccination is causing novels to happen as it is to argue that it's causing all of the deaths that occur afterward.
We have data from tens of thousands of people in controlled trials, and now we are gathering data from millions of people. At this point the data do not show an increased risk of death related to vaccination.
Correlation is not causation.
Now, when I TAKE YOUR POST and substitute "coronavirus" for "vaccinated" (or some variant thereof) you absolutely nailed what I was trying to say.
"In the weeks and months after people get coronavirus we will indeed see people die. Some will die to myocardial infarcts, some will die of strokes, some of pulmonary emboli, some of pneumonia, some of cancer, and some of dementia. Some will also die of motorvehicle crashes, gunshot wounds, and food poisoning. In addition, some people will get married, some will get divorced, some will change job and some will move house. You might even get a few who write a book or record a song. That's because all of these things happen as life goes on - the pandemic doesn't make them stop, and coronavirus doesn't make them stop.
It's just as silly to argue that coronavirus is causing novels to happen as it is to argue that it's causing all of the deaths that occur afterward.
We have data from tens of thousands of people in controlled trials, and now we are gathering data from millions of people. At this point the data do not show an increased risk of death related to coronavirus.
Correlation is not causation."
If we are counting covid deaths one way, why can we not vaccine deaths the same?
Your logic is nonsensical, and if you're here to even insinuate that the vaccine carries even a fraction of the risk of the disease, don't be surprised when you refer to this place as an echo chamber and those on here refer to you as illogical (if it weren't for euphemisms I'd be banned here already). After four years of harmful misinformation being spread, it's infuriating to see people taking the torch from the former POSOTUS, but it's great to know that these kinds of opinion no longer hold weight with anyone that matters.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Ha, thanks. I figured if it was obvious enough there'd be no harm.HughFreakingDillon said:
Just so you're aware, I've seen people banned over doing that. the mods don't like it (I'm not reporting you, or threatening you, just letting you know)mace1229 said:
I'm more of an N'SYNC guy myself.HughFreakingDillon said:you'd think when developing this website forum that they'd make it impossible to alter a quoted post. By the way, I love the Backstreet Boys.
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gvn2fly1421 said:On more thing before I head back In Hiding...
For all the "Follow the science" crowd, can you explain the science behind California having the harshest lockdowns and mandates of any state, and now has a new strain causing a surge...
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-01-23/coronavirus-california-strain-homegrown
...yet Lord Newsom has decided to open the state back up.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/25/california-lifts-covid-19-stay-at-home-order/
It has never been about "the science", it has always been about the "political science".Yes. Stay at home Dec 6 would probably have led to a reduction in cases two weeks later. But that is when Christmas and New Years occurred, and plenty of people still got together thru Jan 1. That almost perfectly explains the downward curve on your graph beginning on Jan 13th. I know many people who got together and got covid during the holidays.
Your graph is also comparing the original covid (pre December) to the new covid (December and later). The newer versions of covid spread much easier, explaining why cases exploded in the late fall. The US medical community was clearly caught off guard by the new variants. If it were not for Boris Johnson’s speech in late December, we probably might not even know about it yet.0 -
For someone who links a lot of Tweets I would assume you have the same capabilities as I do to use the Google machine to determine why CA is lifting stay-at-home-orders. I don't live there, but based on what is happening in the rest of the country it comes down to a balancing act of keeping the economy from collapsing and from rampant spread of the virus all while trying to make sure the hospitals can manage their patient loads. This country showed long ago that we aren't willing to do what is necessary to curb the disease and have instead gone all in on half-measures, vaccines and hopes of herd immunity.gvn2fly1421 said:
Please explain California to me. The "science" does not suggest they should open back up. Why are they?tbergs said:This is insane. Arguing with a person who a few days ago suggested that we can end this now that Biden is elected is not worth the time. After a year of this shit, nothing is going to change your warped view now. Understandable to be unsure back in April last year, but now is just ignoring reality. But sure, the democratic hoax continues!
And for the record, I consider myself a moderate on a lot of things, left leaning on some and right on the rest. As many "right wing", "Q", or 'Trumpers" that I read on twitter, I search out the Andy Slavitts, Eric Fiegl-Ding, and the likes as well. None of anything I am saying does not come from one point of view, however on this issue I guess I align with all the conspiracy theorists. I am begging of y'all, change my mind..
From the NYT morning blast:Good morning. Travel restrictions have been one of the most effective pandemic responses — if they’re strict.
John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York.Spencer Platt/Getty Images ‘Viruses don’t care what passport you carry’
One of the biggest lessons of the pandemic has been the success of travel restrictions at reducing its spread. And this is a moment when they have the potential to be particularly effective in the U.S., given the emergence of even more dangerous coronavirus variants in other countries.
President Biden seems to realize this, and has reinstated some travel restrictions that President Donald Trump lifted just before leaving office.
It’s not yet clear whether Biden will impose the kind of strict rules that have worked best elsewhere. So far, he has chosen a middle ground between Trump’s approach and the approaches with the best global track record.
Many of the places that have contained the virus have relied on travel restrictions. The list includes Australia, Ghana, New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam and Canada’s four Atlantic provinces. At key points, they imposed severe restrictions on who could enter.
There is a crucial word in that sentence: severe. Travel bans work only when countries don’t allow a lot of exceptions.
Barring citizens of other countries while freely allowing your own citizens to return, for example, is ineffectual. “Viruses don’t care what passport you carry,” my colleague Donald G. McNeil Jr., who’s been covering infectious diseases since the 1990s, told me.
Voluntary quarantines generally don’t work either, since many people don’t adhere to them. Some take mild precautions and still describe themselves as “quarantining.” As Donald says: “For it to work, it has to be mandatory — and actually enforced. And not at home.”
Australia versus the U.S.
Australia crushed the spread of the virus in the spring partly by ending its voluntary quarantine and requiring all arrivals, including Australian citizens, to spend two weeks in a hotel. The military then helped enforce the rules. China and some other Asian countries took similar steps. In eastern Canada, tough entry rules were “one of the most successful things we’ve done,” Dr. Susan Kirkland, a Nova Scotia official, has said.
Travel bans had such a big effect, Dr. Jared Baeten, a prominent epidemiologist, told me last year, that public-health experts should re-examine their longtime skepticism of them. “Travel,” he said, “is the hallmark of the spread of this virus around the world.”
Last year, the U.S. became a case study in the ineffectiveness of limited travel rules after Trump announced a ban on entry from China. Because it didn’t apply to U.S. citizens or their immediate family members, among others, and because Trump did little to restrict entry from Europe, the measures had little effect.
The Biden administration now risks a repeat.
Infectious variants of the virus that are spreading in Brazil and South Africa could be even more dangerous than a strong new variant found in Britain, scientists say. In response, Biden is restricting entry from Europe, Brazil and South Africa, but the policy has multiple exceptions: Americans can return home from these places if they have recently tested negative, even though the test result may not be current.
The politics of travel bans are certainly thorny. Businesses worry about the economic impact (as The New Yorker’s Lawrence Wright noted in a fascinating radio interview with Terry Gross). Progressives worry about stoking anti-immigration views. And it’s already too late to keep the variants out of the U.S. entirely.
Yet travel restrictions can still save lives. The U.S. is in a race to vaccinate as many people as possible before they contract the virus, and the new variants are the biggest new challenge in doing so. “I am worried about these variants,” Dr. Vivek Murthy, the co-chair of Biden’s virus task force, said on the first episode of Ezra Klein’s Times podcast.
The U.S. travel restrictions will almost certainly have some impact by keeping out some infected people. But Biden’s policy stops short of minimizing the virus’s spread.
THE LATEST NEWS
THE VIRUS
Salisbury Cathedral in England functions as a vaccination center.Tom Jamieson for The New York Times - Biden has vowed to reopen schools quickly, but it won’t be easy. In Chicago, the teachers’ union said its members had authorized a strike if the district sought to force teachers back.
- Minnesota’s health department said it had detected a variant found in Brazil in someone who recently traveled to the country. “With the world travel that you have,” Dr. Anthony Fauci said, “it’s not surprising.”
- The drug maker Merck abandoned two vaccines because neither produced a strong immune response. The U.S. has authorized two vaccines and will probably need more to subdue the virus this year. Here’s how quickly countries are vaccinating their populations.
- California lifted severe restrictions in parts of the state, allowing some outdoor dining and personal-care services. But experts worry that new virus variants could threaten recent progress.
- Cases are surging among incarcerated people in New York. State officials have not announced when inmates will be vaccinated.
It's a hopeless situation...0 -
If Merck has abandoned their vaccines, could the Biden Administration use the Defense Protection Act to utilize their production capabilities for expanding manufacturing of one of the existing vaccines? I will freely admit I don't know anything about vaccine production, but I would assume that Merck had their production plants gearing up for the production of their own vaccine. Those plants could be retooled to produce subcontracted vaccines.0
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Alright, try to answer some of your questions/articles... Not all of the things quoted are your response, but rather some of the other things you linked.
"Good morning. Travel restrictions have been one of the most effective pandemic responses — if they’re strict."
Remember New Zealand, they absolutely crushed the virus! They just announced today that the measures they took DID NOT do enough so they are suspending travel for most of this year.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/new-zealand-covid-borders-shut-intl-hnk/index.html
A year and a half of travel restrictions? Could y'all imagine that here? Hell, DJT suspended travel to China and was called "xenophobic" by our current President. And the thing is, it still is having problems with the virus. Virus gonna virus.
"I don't live there, but based on what is happening in the rest of the country it comes down to a balancing act of keeping the economy from collapsing and from rampant spread of the virus all while trying to make sure the hospitals can manage their patient loads."
Not trying to be a dick, but you exactly proved my point. Very little science involved, but really heavy on the political science. Show me where science references the economy? And again, there is this new strain(s). If everything worked before, shouldn't we lockdown harder, or double mask, to take out the new strain?
Finally, just a little PSA for any of you with pregnant significant others, the WHO is now recommending that they do not take the Moderna vaccine. If most are like and probably are judging by the age of the band, this will not affect many, but be careful out there.
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-moderna-covid-19-mrna-1273-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know
"Who should not take the vaccine?
While pregnancy puts women at a higher risk of severe COVID-19, the use of this vaccine in pregnant women is currently not recommended, unless they are at risk of high exposure (e.g. health workers).
Individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component of the vaccine should not take this or any other mRNA vaccine.
While vaccination is recommended for older persons due to the high risk of severe COVID-19 and death, very frail older persons with an anticipated life expectancy of less than 3 months should be individually assessed.
The vaccine should not be administered to persons younger than 18 years of age pending the results of further studies."
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I don't disagree with your assessment in the lack of science in the balancing act, but that is where we are as a country after some moronic idiot was in charge and demonized scientists and mask wearing for 10 months. Of course it's a balancing act because the little we are doing caused a bunch of morons to storm the capitol. I think we should be locked down, but I am 1 out 350 million and each governor has to consider the will of the moronic or be out of office and replaced with some nut who thinks we should be completely open. The last election proved we have 75 million people who don't really give a fuck.gvn2fly1421 said:Alright, try to answer some of your questions/articles... Not all of the things quoted are your response, but rather some of the other things you linked.
"Good morning. Travel restrictions have been one of the most effective pandemic responses — if they’re strict."
Remember New Zealand, they absolutely crushed the virus! They just announced today that the measures they took DID NOT do enough so they are suspending travel for most of this year.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/new-zealand-covid-borders-shut-intl-hnk/index.html
A year and a half of travel restrictions? Could y'all imagine that here? Hell, DJT suspended travel to China and was called "xenophobic" by our current President. And the thing is, it still is having problems with the virus. Virus gonna virus.
"I don't live there, but based on what is happening in the rest of the country it comes down to a balancing act of keeping the economy from collapsing and from rampant spread of the virus all while trying to make sure the hospitals can manage their patient loads."
Not trying to be a dick, but you exactly proved my point. Very little science involved, but really heavy on the political science. Show me where science references the economy? And again, there is this new strain(s). If everything worked before, shouldn't we lockdown harder, or double mask, to take out the new strain?
Finally, just a little PSA for any of you with pregnant significant others, the WHO is now recommending that they do not take the Moderna vaccine. If most are like and probably are judging by the age of the band, this will not affect many, but be careful out there.
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-moderna-covid-19-mrna-1273-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know
"Who should not take the vaccine?
While pregnancy puts women at a higher risk of severe COVID-19, the use of this vaccine in pregnant women is currently not recommended, unless they are at risk of high exposure (e.g. health workers).
Individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component of the vaccine should not take this or any other mRNA vaccine.
While vaccination is recommended for older persons due to the high risk of severe COVID-19 and death, very frail older persons with an anticipated life expectancy of less than 3 months should be individually assessed.
The vaccine should not be administered to persons younger than 18 years of age pending the results of further studies."
It's a hopeless situation...0
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