Police Reform (Please Don’t Call It Defund)

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  • lindamarie73
    lindamarie73 Posts: 491
    hedonist said:
    Was that even considered a meme?  I can't stand memes when someone uses them instead of actually articulating a thought.  It strikes me as lazy.

    And, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source; rather, I find it unreasonable to not back up one's assertion, whether it's a popular one or not.
    Lazy 4 sure.....But I am just going to go out on a limb here to say the increase in murders in this most controversial meme are pretty accurate....I know they are in Chiraq ....
    but by all memes, (lol) someone please do some fact checking.  I know y’all love doing that.....
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Fact is, I'm heading out for my daily walk.  Hope to see more facts here later. 
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,227
    lindamarie73 said:
    hedonist said:
    Was that even considered a meme?  I can't stand memes when someone uses them instead of actually articulating a thought.  It strikes me as lazy.

    And, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source; rather, I find it unreasonable to not back up one's assertion, whether it's a popular one or not.
    Lazy 4 sure.....But I am just going to go out on a limb here to say the increase in murders in this most controversial meme are pretty accurate....I know they are in Chiraq ....
    but by all memes, (lol) someone please do some fact checking.  I know y’all love doing that.....
    Fact checking already occurred. Read the Vox article or the WaPo had a similar article yesterday. You know Google, right?
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,426
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/21/murder-rises-in-pandemic/
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  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    lindamarie73 said:
    hedonist said:
    Was that even considered a meme?  I can't stand memes when someone uses them instead of actually articulating a thought.  It strikes me as lazy.

    And, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source; rather, I find it unreasonable to not back up one's assertion, whether it's a popular one or not.
    Lazy 4 sure.....But I am just going to go out on a limb here to say the increase in murders in this most controversial meme are pretty accurate....I know they are in Chiraq ....
    but by all memes, (lol) someone please do some fact checking.  I know y’all love doing that.....

    Fact checking already demonstrated that the increase in murder rate applies to both the R and the BigBadDem cities equally. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    mcgruff10 said:
    Mental note, don’t piss off @benjs

    Mcgruff, always love your posts - you're authentic, and clearly here to discuss, learn, and teach. 
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    EV
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  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    lindamarie73 said:
    hedonist said:
    Was that even considered a meme?  I can't stand memes when someone uses them instead of actually articulating a thought.  It strikes me as lazy.

    And, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source; rather, I find it unreasonable to not back up one's assertion, whether it's a popular one or not.
    Lazy 4 sure.....But I am just going to go out on a limb here to say the increase in murders in this most controversial meme are pretty accurate....I know they are in Chiraq ....
    but by all memes, (lol) someone please do some fact checking.  I know y’all love doing that.....
    You don't present sources, so I don't think anything you post needs fact checking, rather we should just assume it's bullshit. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • lindamarie73
    lindamarie73 Posts: 491
    benjs said:
    lindamarie73 said:
    hedonist said:
    Was that even considered a meme?  I can't stand memes when someone uses them instead of actually articulating a thought.  It strikes me as lazy.

    And, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source; rather, I find it unreasonable to not back up one's assertion, whether it's a popular one or not.
    Lazy 4 sure.....But I am just going to go out on a limb here to say the increase in murders in this most controversial meme are pretty accurate....I know they are in Chiraq ....
    but by all memes, (lol) someone please do some fact checking.  I know y’all love doing that.....
    You don't present sources, so I don't think anything you post needs fact checking, rather we should just assume it's bullshit. 
    And certain politicians count on that.....sheep sheep 
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    lindamarie73 said:
    benjs said:
    lindamarie73 said:
    hedonist said:
    Was that even considered a meme?  I can't stand memes when someone uses them instead of actually articulating a thought.  It strikes me as lazy.

    And, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a source; rather, I find it unreasonable to not back up one's assertion, whether it's a popular one or not.
    Lazy 4 sure.....But I am just going to go out on a limb here to say the increase in murders in this most controversial meme are pretty accurate....I know they are in Chiraq ....
    but by all memes, (lol) someone please do some fact checking.  I know y’all love doing that.....
    You don't present sources, so I don't think anything you post needs fact checking, rather we should just assume it's bullshit. 
    And certain politicians count on that.....sheep sheep 
    Where'd you get the talking points you're repeating? How come you won't share where they're from? How come it's written like a politicized hack job instead of a genuine poll? How come there are no stats about other cities for comparison's sake - don't you compare apples to apples instead of apples to nothing at all? 

    We're asking for a gram of evidence that what looks disingenuous or flat-out bullshit, isn't. You're accepting it sight unseen. And we're the sheep.

    Baaaaah.
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    EV
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    benjs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Mental note, don’t piss off @benjs

    Mcgruff, always love your posts - you're authentic, and clearly here to discuss, learn, and teach. 
    And to take a bite out of crime.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,227
    When did the AMT become faceturd?
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,426
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    lindamarie73 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    It’s also typical around here for some posters to post memes that purport something but then offer up some lame conclusion or none at all. Freedumb after all, isn’t free.
    One would think its best to draw up your own conclusions....those things that make you go hmmm.  Choose to see it, or not....

    i was taught not to draw conclusions from bullshit. 

    "struck a nerve" seems to be a phrase reserved specifically for right wing nutjob trolls and y'all queda. 
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,227
    Maybe this is what we need more of? Seeing how the police aren't going to reform themselves.

    Attorney General Merrick Garland on Wednesday announced a sweeping Justice Department probe into the practices and culture of the Minneapolis Police Department, elevating the federal government’s role a day after former officer Derek Chauvin was found guilty in the murder of George Floyd.

    Garland said the “pattern or practice” civil investigation would be conducted separately from an ongoing federal criminal probe opened during the Trump administration over whether Floyd’s civil rights were violated during his arrest and death last May.

    The new examination will go beyond Floyd’s case, Garland said, to determine whether the Minneapolis department has engaged in systemic misconduct that constituted “unconstitutional or unlawful policing.”

    “Nothing can fill the void the loved ones of George Floyd have felt since his death,” Garland said during brief remarks at Justice Department headquarters. “My heart goes out to them and to all those who have experienced similar loss.”

    He added that “justice is sometimes slow, sometimes elusive and sometimes never comes. The DOJ will be unwavering in its pursuit of equal justice under the law.”

    Pattern or practice investigations undertaken during previous administrations often took months or even years to complete and generally resulted in local police departments reaching a court-enforced agreement with the Justice Department over changes.

    Garland said the civil investigation will examine whether the Minneapolis police have engaged in excessive force or discriminatory conduct or unlawfully abused those with mental health illness or physical disabilities. He indicated Justice Department lawyers will also review tactics authorities used against protesters, including tear gas and other less-than-lethal munitions, in the mass street demonstrations that erupted in the city after Floyd’s death.

    Merrick Garland: Justice Dept. will investigate Minneapolis police practices after George Floyd?s death - The Washington Post


    Does anyone know who she is? Someone from Tejas ought to know.


    The Senate is poised to narrowly confirm civil rights lawyer Vanita Gupta as associate attorney general later Wednesday after a 51-to-49 vote to limit debate.

    The nomination for the No. 3 position at the Justice Department cleared its final procedural hurdle on a vote largely along party lines. Only Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Ala.) broke with her party to support moving forward with the nomination.

    Gupta’s nomination has been among the more controversial ones put forward by President Biden, with Republicans seizing upon previous tweets that they claimed showed too much partisanship for the position.

    Earlier this month, the Senate Judiciary Committee deadlocked on advancing Gupta’s nomination to the floor, forcing Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) to use a procedural maneuver to allow full Senate consideration.

    Before Wednesday’s procedural vote, Schumer urged colleagues from both parties to support Gupta.

    “Not only is Ms. Gupta the first woman of color to ever be nominated to the position, she is the first civil rights attorney ever to be nominated to the position,” he said. “That’s shocking, really. We never have had a former civil rights attorney serving in such a position of prominence at the Justice Department.”

    On Tuesday, the Senate confirmed Lisa Monaco as deputy attorney general, the No. 2 position at the Justice Department.

    The vote was 98 to 2, with Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.) voting against Biden’s choice.

    The nomination of Monaco, who served in the Justice Department during the Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama administrations, generated little controversy.


    The latest on Joe Biden’s presidency: Live updates - The Washington Post

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  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    I just had an interesting interaction with the police that I think exactly points to part of what's wrong with the system. I write this as I'm waiting for a hospital transfer for my mom. 

    Very early this morning,  I called 911 because my mom was having hallucinations and paranoia, brought on by dehydration (I now know). She thought someone was in the house trying to kill her. She was terrified, physically weak, out of her mind. She was also in Afib, with her heart rate skyrocketing, her sugar was high, she could barely walk to get to the bathroom and back to her chair. Basically, she was a complete mess and needing emergency care.

    I gave the 911 operator pertinent information--80 years old, medical history, symptoms, I need an ambulance, please, because I can't get her to the ER myself.  After I use the word hallucinations, the ER operator starts asking about guns in the house, *are you sure no one is really there trying to kill her.* No, I explain. The person she thinks is trying to kill her died a year ago. I hang up, thinking an ambulance is on the way.

    I live about a mile from the local rescue squad. They've been to our home before when she's fallen, in less than 5 mins. This morning I waited longer than usual, about 15 mins. When I finally open the door, there's two armed police officers. I look behind them for the EMTs. I ask where's the ambulance? I'm confused. I didn't call for the police. This was their exact answer: "Whenever there's a mental health issue, they send police first." I just looked at the dude and said "Of course they do." Then they start questioning my mom, who is totally out of it and incapable of answering any questions. I have to fill in the details, and I feel like I'm under scrutiny. Hilariously, at one point, my mom looks at the both of them and tells them to behave. She mumbles to me (within earshot) that she's afraid of them because they have guns and they shoot black people and hopes they don't shoot her. I apologize for her to the police and finally I'm like, Can we get an ambulance, for God's sake? The officer then explained again they send the police first to make sure it’s safe for the EMTs, and they finally arrive after I grant permission for the police to request an ambulance.

    I totally get the need for safety, for everyone. This standard procedure, however, was life threatening to my mom, the exact opposite of safe for the person calling for help. Because of her afib, which I shared with the 9/11 operator, she could have had a stroke any minute, and we're wasting precious time making sure nobody's trying to kill her for real. 

    Moral of the story . . . Fix this. People will continue to die needlessly until we do. 

    I'll perhaps wander to the coronavirus thread later to discuss the ridiculous hospital rules under Covid. But maybe not. I'm really, really tired. 
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    edited April 2021
    What Dreams...that is a crazy story.  Curious about where you are.  I be never heard of such a policy and it seems very dangerous.  I’d understand, though wouldn’t love, if they would need to send a police officer with the EMTs but this way just seems bat shit crazy.  It seems like police departments are a little too deep into the idea that there’s danger lurking around every corner.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,385
    OnWis97 said:
    What Dreams...that is a crazy story.  Curious about where you are.  I be never heard of such a policy and it seems very dangerous.  I’d understand, though wouldn’t love, if they would need to send a police officer with the EMTs but this way just seems bat shit crazy.  It seems like police departments are a little too deep into the idea that there’s danger lurking around every corner.
    I believe that was part of the reform and to have mental health specialists with he police officers for occasions like this.

    Everyone, when you call 911 do not mention mental health issues apparently?
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    OnWis97 said:
    What Dreams...that is a crazy story.  Curious about where you are.  I be never heard of such a policy and it seems very dangerous.  I’d understand, though wouldn’t love, if they would need to send a police officer with the EMTs but this way just seems bat shit crazy.  It seems like police departments are a little too deep into the idea that there’s danger lurking around every corner.
    I'm in northern VA, a DC suburb. 

    Law enforcement doesn't make up that procedure by themselves. It's the entire emergency response system.  Any time there's a "system," individuals have no room for personal judgment. If I had left out the word hallucinations and then the subsequent elaboration when asked, the operator would have followed a different algorithm. Instead, my mom's medical emergency turned into "a mental health issue" and all other symptoms became second tier. Even if it were mental health alone, sending the police without the EMTs or better yet, a clinical psychiatrist (hello?!), is a negligent response.

    When all is calm, I plan to call my elected county supervisor who is also a former law enforcement officer. This needs to change in my community. I'm sure we're not the only crazy story. 
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,426
    what dreams said:
    OnWis97 said:
    What Dreams...that is a crazy story.  Curious about where you are.  I be never heard of such a policy and it seems very dangerous.  I’d understand, though wouldn’t love, if they would need to send a police officer with the EMTs but this way just seems bat shit crazy.  It seems like police departments are a little too deep into the idea that there’s danger lurking around every corner.
    I'm in northern VA, a DC suburb. 

    Law enforcement doesn't make up that procedure by themselves. It's the entire emergency response system.  Any time there's a "system," individuals have no room for personal judgment. If I had left out the word hallucinations and then the subsequent elaboration when asked, the operator would have followed a different algorithm. Instead, my mom's medical emergency turned into "a mental health issue" and all other symptoms became second tier. Even if it were mental health alone, sending the police without the EMTs or better yet, a clinical psychiatrist (hello?!), is a negligent response.

    When all is calm, I plan to call my elected county supervisor who is also a former law enforcement officer. This needs to change in my community. I'm sure we're not the only crazy story. 

    all calls funnel through 911 first. thats one area that needs looked at hard. seems fairly common that pertinent info isnt relayed when they dispatch......
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    tempo_n_groove said:
    OnWis97 said:
    What Dreams...that is a crazy story.  Curious about where you are.  I be never heard of such a policy and it seems very dangerous.  I’d understand, though wouldn’t love, if they would need to send a police officer with the EMTs but this way just seems bat shit crazy.  It seems like police departments are a little too deep into the idea that there’s danger lurking around every corner.
    I believe that was part of the reform and to have mental health specialists with he police officers for occasions like this.

    Everyone, when you call 911 do not mention mental health issues apparently?
    That was my takeaway . . . Mental illness is a crime. 

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